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Mill'd head Time Slip

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fast64ranchero
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Mill'd head Time Slip

Post #1 by fast64ranchero » Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:22 am

Well, it's been some time sense I've posted in this forum, some of you may remember my build, stock head w/intake mill'd off, offset ground stroker crank, Manley rods and CP pistons, well last night I went to our local track Firebird Raceway, It was a street car night, the car pass tech inspection for running in the 14's, first pass I ran against my buddies drag car, I ended up killing my motor because I couldn't hear my own car over his str8 headers, 14.36 et @ 110.06 MPH not bad considering, so I went up and got my 110 mph stickers, next pass was better at 12.858 et @ 114.86, better but spinning the street tires through 2nd gear, third pass 12.877@ 116.29, now I'm thinking/wondering if I can go 120 mph in full street trim, so I raised the boost from 14 to 18lbs and added fuel (four jet sizes front and rear) next run the car explodes the tires all the way through 2nd gear, kicks sideways in 3rd and at about 1000 feet it just falls off, I look at the boost gauge, no boost, to the pits I go, found one off my plastic vacuum/pressure T fittings had broken of course it had to be the one that controls the fuel pressure reg., that pass the car went 12.676@ 116.35mph, next time up and the last run of the evening the car went 12.635@ 120.08MPH YES SIR OVER 120MPH on street tires, now if I can figure out how I'll post some pics.

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Last edited by fast64ranchero on Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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wallaka
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Post #2 by wallaka » Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:30 am

Wow. :shock:
Down to 29 cylinders!
2006 Porsche Cayman H6, 1968 Mercury Monterey big block (390), 1967 F-100 240, 1965 Mercury Comet 404 (200), 2009 Triumph Street Triple

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JackFish
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Post #3 by JackFish » Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:50 am

Way to go. Awesome job. 8)
Is it a stock 7.5 rear? What gears? C4?
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
Yup, I bought another one.
1996 Chevy Caprice 9C1 (3)
1999 Dodge Ram 2500

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Stormin' Norman
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Post #4 by Stormin' Norman » Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:08 pm

Double-wow! That's a double-pumper Holley!. Like the way you offset it for the linkage!
1979 Fairmont Squire, from a 302-V8 to a 200 ci, C4 Auto.
My other vehicle is 2 on the floor with overhead laces.

fast64ranchero
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Post #5 by fast64ranchero » Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:02 pm

The car has a TKO 5 speed, 8.8" rear end with 3.08 gears, the carb is a Comp Holley 450CFM used on tunnel rams, it really needs a Nascar 390 carb for better tuning, I think with drag Radials or true slicks the car would run 125mph at low 11's as is, just think how it'll run when I get the ported Alum head on it! :twisted: it wheel dyno'd at 345hp and 390 ft lbs with 10 psi boost, it must be around 400hp at the wheels now with 18lbs, I did not build this car to drag race, it is a street car, set up more on the road race side

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Post #6 by JackFish » Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:22 pm

What did you do for the 8.8 brake line? Replace the whole thing?
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
Yup, I bought another one.
1996 Chevy Caprice 9C1 (3)
1999 Dodge Ram 2500

fast64ranchero
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Post #7 by fast64ranchero » Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:06 pm

Jackfish, I used the 7.5 brake line had to str8en it out a little to fit the 8.8

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Post #8 by Patrick66 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:11 pm

awesome! :D

videos?

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Post #9 by Thad » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:21 pm

FORD SIXes RULE

Way to go!

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Post #10 by BIGREDRASA » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:23 pm

:party: :checks:
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Post #11 by Funky Cricket » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:03 pm

That's AWESOME!
that is so what I want to build up (but in a fox or old maverick, maybe a t-bird)

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Post #12 by Broncitis » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:21 pm

MIster you have to know what your doing there, wish I had that kind of talent.
69 Early bronco, 4.11, toploader 4speed, 68k 3inch body lift, ET about 50 something!!!

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Post #13 by Bort62 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:30 am

haha

Finally, some real performance :)

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FalconSedanDelivery
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Great early numbers ,

Post #14 by FalconSedanDelivery » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:52 pm

Hopefully it can stay together, and repeat , thats the ticket and I congratulate you on MOUNTING YOUR CARB the RIGHT WAY !!,And I would say it could use MORE carb a 660 center squirter makes a great blown carb ( I use 2 of them ) and with that setup would flat out fly, keep us posted
Falcon 6's, FE's I Like them both , Sold all My 6 cyl stuff ( for now at least ) glad to pass along some tips though

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Post #15 by fast64ranchero » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:07 pm

FalconSedanDelivery wrote:Hopefully it can stay together, and repeat , thats the ticket and I congratulate you on MOUNTING YOUR CARB the RIGHT WAY !!,And I would say it could use MORE carb a 660 center squirter makes a great blown carb ( I use 2 of them ) and with that setup would flat out fly, keep us posted


Well I drove it to the track and back home after the race/playing!! I mounted the carb the way I did to help with tuning, that way I had a little room for error on jetting... I do agree with you it needs more carb, and if I wasn't thinking about injecting it , I would buy a Nascar style 390, they flow close to 700 out of the box and have accel. pumps on both ends unlike the carb I'm using now, now that I have the timing gear failures figured out I think it will live, oh and by the way it was running on str8 pump gas :D
63 Ranchero,1965 Mercury Comet Convert V-8, 1978 Fairmont small six, mill'd off intake, 62-1 ET 12.332 @ 123.49 mph (gone)

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What were the fixes for the timing gear ?

Post #16 by FalconSedanDelivery » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:40 pm

You may have posted them earlier but I missed them , I used the narrow set on my 250 but havent ran the motor yet , I would like to know you engine specs and turbo setup , if you could e-mail me the specsa or post here I would greatly appreciate , thanks Faron
Falcon 6's, FE's I Like them both , Sold all My 6 cyl stuff ( for now at least ) glad to pass along some tips though

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Post #17 by fast64ranchero » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:05 pm

1975 250 head, 1.75 and 1.5 valves, mill'd head with my own hand made intake, and exh 168cfm @ .5 intake 128 cfm @ .5 exh. flow numbers 1978 250 block, 3.718 bore (so I could get a good set of rings), crank offset ground to 4.125" from 3.91, 1.88" rod journals, Manley H beam rods for a Mitsubishi 4G turbo motor, CP custom dished pistons 8 to 1 comp with block decked to -005 block height I don't remember the comp height of the pistons off hand, Clay Smith Cam custom ground for me, but is now a stocked item with Mike, I think it's called a 292 grind, Terra Yellow rockers, 9.18" push rods, custom fab'd oil pan by myself, 1975 timing set to get the cam deg'd in correctly, Turbonetics turbo 62-1 P trim .81 A/R, 3" hand fab'd exhaust all the way out the drivers rear, billet steel flywheel 4 safety! Road Race TKO 550 3.27 first with a .82 OD, 8.8" rear end with 3.08 gears and a factory limited slip, I won't get into the suspension on the car as it has way to much stuff (93 Mustang GT swap with Steeda components)
all this in a 1978 Fairmont worth $500.
Last edited by fast64ranchero on Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
63 Ranchero,1965 Mercury Comet Convert V-8, 1978 Fairmont small six, mill'd off intake, 62-1 ET 12.332 @ 123.49 mph (gone)

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Post #18 by Bort62 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:16 pm

fast64ranchero wrote:all this in a 1978 Fairmont worth $500.


Priceless.

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Post #19 by fast64ranchero » Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:09 pm

A week ago I would have sold the thing for $3500, now I know how hard it runs,, I think I'll keep it and put the Alum head on this winter
63 Ranchero,1965 Mercury Comet Convert V-8, 1978 Fairmont small six, mill'd off intake, 62-1 ET 12.332 @ 123.49 mph (gone)

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Post #20 by drag-200stang » Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:12 pm

I was disappointed when you decided to sell it. Glad that you stuck it out. We need more properly built turbo SB 6's. With that long stroke engine of yours, what are your shift points? Also, can you share with us your timing chain issues, if they're different than your earlier posts?
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Post #21 by fast64ranchero » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:15 am

Drag-200stang,
the shift points seem to change with boost, I'm not sure why either, at 10 psi the motor fell off @ 5K rpm 14 psi 5200 rpm, 18 psi 5400-5500 rpm.
I konw I have some push rod deflection issues, and need to order good ones, as for the timing chain issues I hesitate to bring it up, I know someone on here will call me out on it, but here is the scoop seems only one manufacture makes the lower gears (lower crank gear) for most if not all aftermarket companies, (Cloyes, Sealed power, Schucks and Auto Zone brands,) and they are using powedered metal to do so, I couldn't find out what counrty they're built in prob. China, well there process is/must be less then desirable and they are weak, they split at the keyway, this is not just a 250 six issue according to the rep I talked with it is an issue, the cure was, I dug through my old stock Ford used stuff and put a stock Ford crank gear in it, problem solved!!!!!
63 Ranchero,1965 Mercury Comet Convert V-8, 1978 Fairmont small six, mill'd off intake, 62-1 ET 12.332 @ 123.49 mph (gone)

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Post #22 by Bort62 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:40 am

fast64ranchero wrote:I dug through my old stock Ford used stuff and put a stock Ford crank gear in it, problem solved!!!!!


That is invaluable to know.

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Wont call you out , that for sure

Post #23 by FalconSedanDelivery » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:22 pm

I and others appreciate info regardless if it doesent always please everyone , on my 250 I used a narrow setup that ak miller recomended way back in the early 70s , I tracked all my parts down by the mid 80s and was just curious about your combo , is it the wide as most 250s or narrow ?
Falcon 6's, FE's I Like them both , Sold all My 6 cyl stuff ( for now at least ) glad to pass along some tips though

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Post #24 by fast64ranchero » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:17 pm

Wide 1" 1975 issue style chain, I didn't research the 5/8" chain, if one could get a 5/8" chain/gears with the same cam retard built in, it would be worth looking at, I needed that retard to get the cam degreed in, early chain set the cam at 98 deg. late chain put it at something like 114, Clay Smith said 108 so that is what it got set at, sure would be nice to have an aftermarket set-up.. HINT HINT MIKE!!!!!!! I would pay good money for a good chain setup,, AK Miller knew what he was doing just think what he could have done with one of Mikes heads, I'm going back to the track on Sept 6th to play again, might even bolt on my street slicks from the Ranchero, stock 28 spline C-clip axles scare me a little though, if one broke on the line I'd be ok with it, it's the 1000 foot mark break that I'd hate.. what do you guys think about another run on the dyno for this thing, I'm thinking about 400-425 hp and close to 500 ft lbs to the wheels, is it sits now..
63 Ranchero,1965 Mercury Comet Convert V-8, 1978 Fairmont small six, mill'd off intake, 62-1 ET 12.332 @ 123.49 mph (gone)

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Post #25 by fast64ranchero » Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:09 pm

new ET and MPH
60 2.315
330 5.690
1/8 8.289
mph 95.55
1000 10.497
1/4 12.332
mph 123.49

ran pump gas with a can of 108 octane booster, bumped boost to 19 lbs
I had a better run going (2.033 60 ft) but missed a shift, last run of the night the clutch started slipping only got 4 runs, I thought I had a good clutch in thing (Centerforce Dual Friction) I guess the torq. and the 3.08 gears killed it...
63 Ranchero,1965 Mercury Comet Convert V-8, 1978 Fairmont small six, mill'd off intake, 62-1 ET 12.332 @ 123.49 mph (gone)

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Post #26 by AzCoupe » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:39 am

fast64ranchero wrote:I know I have some push rod deflection issues, and need to order good ones

Walt, I have some Heavy Duty 9.125" Chrome Moly Ball/Ball pushrods in stock. I had four sets custom made by Clay Smith, as one set is going in my new 250ci. Price is $90 bucks.

as for the timing chain issues I hesitate to bring it up, I know someone on here will call me out on it, but here is the scoop seems only one manufacture makes the lower gears (lower crank gear) for most if not all aftermarket companies, (Cloyes, Sealed power, Schucks and Auto Zone brands,) and they are using powedered metal to do so, I couldn't find out what counrty they're built in prob. China, well there process is/must be less then desirable and they are weak, they split at the keyway, this is not just a 250 six issue according to the rep I talked with it is an issue, the cure was, I dug through my old stock Ford used stuff and put a stock Ford crank gear in it, problem solved

I've been talking with two companies and plan to make a multi-keyway billet steel crank gear for the stock timing chain sets, since we can't get a double roller chain.
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Post #27 by inline300 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:59 am

Genuine sleeper.

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Post #28 by crash-harris » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:04 am

Is the rear end a stock F150 8.8"? Shortened maybe? Sounds like you snagged one from a '87-'91 model truck :D

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Post #29 by crash-harris » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:05 am

Is the rear end a stock F150 8.8"? Shortened maybe? Sounds like you snagged one from a '87-'91 model truck. Awesome on reaching 120mph with a streetable machine :D

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Post #30 by fast64ranchero » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:00 pm

Fairmonts are the first Fox Chassis cars, so I used late model stang parts for the suspension, it has an 8.8 out of a 89 stang with ranger axles and drums (5 lug)
63 Ranchero,1965 Mercury Comet Convert V-8, 1978 Fairmont small six, mill'd off intake, 62-1 ET 12.332 @ 123.49 mph (gone)

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Post #31 by JGTurbo » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:41 pm

NICE!!! When are you planning on being back at Firebird? I would love to see this car run. What did you use to seal the flange directly to the head? And then did you use a gasket or sealer (or both) to seal the manifold to the head flange? I am helping a friend build a similar set up. It's almost ready to go and I want to make sure I can seal the thing. Any tips would be appreciated!

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Post #32 by JGTurbo » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:47 pm

Here's a picture of the early stages of our manifold and flange.
Last edited by JGTurbo on Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #33 by JGTurbo » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:00 pm

I am thinking Hylomar around the intakes and Ultra Copper around the exhaust ports. Permatex claims that Ultra Copper can be used for exhaust manifold gaskets, so I will give it a try. Also, the water jackets are about 1/4" under the flange, so that should help tame some of the heat. If this doesn't work, we might have to go with a gasket. Any suggestions? Of course I would love to o-ring everything, but the layout of the flange and bolts doesn't permit it.
Last edited by JGTurbo on Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #34 by Patrick66 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:35 pm

what exactly are you mounting on there? it looks awesome.

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Post #35 by JGTurbo » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:53 pm

It would have been perfect for Multipoint EFI... But we ended up cutting off those two bolt flanges and running all the intakes into a manifold that looks a lot like fast64ranchero's. I'll see if I can get some recent pics up.

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Post #36 by fast64ranchero » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:06 pm

218224 I used high temp silicone on the head to the flange, and from the flange to the intake/exhuast I used 1/16" Garlock gasket material the intake has been off a few times and the gasket has been re-used, your head looks alot like mine. you been looking at my old posts? Looks nice should run good if the rest of your set up is matched well, if your intke is like mine don't expect to much low end power
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63 Ranchero,1965 Mercury Comet Convert V-8, 1978 Fairmont small six, mill'd off intake, 62-1 ET 12.332 @ 123.49 mph (gone)

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Post #37 by JGTurbo » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:56 pm

Thanks for the info! Yeah, it's funny because I think we were doing this at the same time you were. I saw your older posts quite a while ago and thought that it was cool that someone else was doing exactly what we were.

The floor of the plenum under the carb is tapered upward as it gets farther away from the head to reduce area and hopefully keep velocity up. That 62-1 you've got is awesome. We're running a much smaller S-3 turbo and a small custom grind from Comp cams. The pistons are forged and the rods and crank are stock. We're shooting for boost by 2000 rpm and peak power by 4000-4500. We will be relying on the quick spooling turbo to make good torque.

It is really encouraging to see your set up working so well. I have a little more faith in the hi-temp silicon now, and I think Hylomar will be more than adequate for the intakes. I'll keep you guys posted on how it turns out.

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Post #38 by inline300 » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:35 am

Definitely a sleeper.

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