Building a supercharged 200 with an oz 250 2v head

Blicky100

New member
Has anyone built a supercharged 200 with oz 250 2v head. Would like to hear any experiences with this build and advice.
Looking for information regarding compression etc, it will be going into a 64 xm falcon in oz with the small bell housing c4, the motor and box I am using came from a 67 mustang. The car will be used as a weekend cruiser but I want something more performance orientated and different as everyone here puts 302 windsors into the early Falcons.
Thanks
 
Which type of supercharger do you want to use?
A centrifugal supercharger, an Eaton or a twin screw like a Whipple?
 
Was thinking of a centrifugal Paxton or the like, but I'm not fixed on it. I want everything to be under the bonnet also
 
The benefit of A centrifugal supercharger is that an intercooler can easily be used.
You don't get instant low rpm boost like an Eaton or twin screw but a higher stall speed torque converter will compensate.

Compression ratio depends on cam and type of fuel and octane rating.
What fuel will you be using?
EFI or carburetor?
 
You should have no problem with a 9:1 compression ratio along with an intercooler.
Typically a centrifugal supercharger will double the engine power at 17 lbs of boost.

The head flow determines the horsepower potential so any head porting will help.
It will also determine what cam to use.
A good goal would be to make max power by 6000 rpm.
 
Everythings feet, pounds, horsepower, cubic inches, liters, US miles per gallon, U$ dollars and standing 1/4 miles here. Even the alloy heads are aluminum :unsure:


If you do it right, you won't need a supercharger at all. Mustang Geezer, Mraley, and an independent engine build with alloy heads easily top out 235 flywheel hp.

MRaley_66_227_235_245_266_hp%20ratings.jpg


http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccr ... nline-six/

203ci, 235hp Ford Inline Six
Jim Grubbs Motorsports, Valencia, CA

While 235 hp doesn’t sound like much, keep in mind that this engine is displacement-challenged and only spins to 6,200 rpm. Even by expanding the inches per cylinder into a V8, it would still only push 270 inches. Dividing 235 ci by 203 hp means that little scrapper is making 1.16 hp per cubic inch. Equate that to a 500ci big-block, and you’d have 580 hp. Atypical engines are becoming more and more popular, as the LS and small-block Chevy stigma continue the controversy over boring engines. As in this case, it’s not always about the horsepower. Sometimes, six is just more fun than eight......

Troy and JGM agreed that using Classic Inlines’ aluminum intake was a good idea. The aluminum single-plane intake mounts a small, standard-flange Holley, as shown here. Singer used a 390-cfm four-barrel carb with a vacuum secondary. Below the intake is a set of 15⁄8-inch headers also from Classic Inlines.

JGM punched this little Ford out to 3.71 inches while the stroke remained the same, at 3.125 inches. Grubbs also added a Clay Smith hydraulic flat-tappet cam with 221/221 duration at 0.050 with a 108-degree lobe-separation angle and Yella Terra roller rockers. Compression ended up just less than 10:1 using Speed-Pro pistons and Sealed Power rings.

Benchmarking things, a really good worked 4-bbl 2V version of the US Falcon in line six will eclipse any US 1990 to 2010 six cylinder, except a Grand National X, a GM 4200 twin cam six. The 4 liter Cologne V6 used in Explorers was a 205 to 210 hp engine also used in Rangers, Mustangs. Any well worked 200 Ford six in a Appendix J 1965 style OZ racing class won't keep up without 240 hp, a 295 degree cam with over 480 thou lift, and a good Holley 4-bbl or a brace of 1-3/4 to 2" SU's or 45 DCOE Webers. That's what Holdens have always run. And 208 stroked Holdens were doing sub 14 second quarter miles in Holdens before the mighty 202 XU1 took the flag at the last 500 mile race at Moutn Panarama. With the allowed 250 build homolgation modifications, the 1972 race cars had 216 hp net, with the road car rated at 190 hp gross claimed. A factory stock one came with a screaming cam with over 304 degrees of duration, but only 429 thou lift, and three 1-3/4" carbs.

Incidently, a 15.6 sec at 86 mph 1/4 mile and a top wack of 123 mph was possiable, and that ment the next flywheel figure for the 3300 XU1 was the same as the 250 2V, 149 bhp net.


In Bathurst 1973, they ended up with over 235 hp net the next year with a 326 degree cam and 458 thou lift, and triple DCO58 carbs de barreled to operate as three 1-bbl carbs. Any 2V headed 200 should look at that level of power as a basic start. Fact is, that can be done with a 2V 200 with just a 4bbl Holley 465 or Autolite 480 cfm carb.

Mustang Geezer's - 66 Coupe and Mraley's Mustangs trip well over 235 flywheel hp with 2V style heads in alloy. WITHOUT Boost.


In Australia or the USA, you can get a 5.0/302 W very cheap, and you can cookie cutter a hot 400 hp net varaint easily for US $6500, or maybee 2500 if you use a junked 300 dollar Explorer GT40P engine that the Falcon XR8 and GT used.

On Mraley's quest to the 164 rwhp (he ended up with IIRC, 227 rwhp)

http://www.mustangandfords.com/featured ... -cylinder/

it was written

viewtopic.php?f=100&t=43951&p=325928#p325928

super4ord":122499cw said:
I'd like to know who can build a 350hp 302 for $2500. I say they are full of it. You can't even make a 300 hp 302 with stock Ford Windsor heads. You have to go aftermarket to do that, whether it's Motorsport heads or any number of other companies heads. I've built a number of 302's and you can make 350 hp with a 302, even 400 hp without stroking it, but it won't be very streetable, and you sure won't do it for $2500. You might get away with $2500 in just the heads, if you're lucky. I've got between $6K & $7K in the current one I have to make 400hp and I bet it's only making 385 hp in reality. The power band is 2500-6500 rpm, so it's kind of streetable. The manual trans makes it that way. You can really feel it pull from 2500 rpm up. It started out as an XB3 345 hp crate motor with X-303 heads, a B303 cam and standard bore. The heads have been fully ported, including port matching to an old Shelby style high rise dual plane intake. Rockers were changed to 1.7's. I know I could make more power by going to a more radical cam, and a single plane intake, but it would make it even less streetable. It has a Demon 650 carb and aeromotive fuel system feeding it. The short block was disassembled. The pistons were weight matched, rods balanced and aftermarker ARP bolts were used. The crank was microplished and oil holes chamfered. The whole reciprocating assembly was balanced. It has a DSS main girdle, crank scraper and ARP main studs. There were other things done that I will not reveal, but anyone that races SBF's know the standard old tricks. Just like others have said previously, it's still just another cookie cutter SBF. It has been done to death, and I have done it too. That's what excites me a bout them darn INLINE 6 CYLINDERS! They are different and it's something exciting because it's different. My $.02

Darrell

In terms of what Ford had in 1972, the M code 170 hp gross 2V Falcon would run as fast as the 240 HP gross Y code 2V 302c (230 hp stock, with 10 hp extra from the dual pipes). Auto or manual, the results were the same, with a 112 mph top whack. Although the 2V head potential, the actual 1/4 mile times shows the 2V had 149 hp net, and the auto 2V 302C, about a 79 mph terminal trap speed, and it only needed 168 hp net at the flywheel to do that.

Compared with the US, all sixes were down tuned to make room for the main market v8's, and downsizing ment all mid sized cars had early Commodore sized wheelbases and tracks. Ford and GM did have some pretty strong 2.8 liter engines in the 1979 era, with 109 to 115 hp, but generally they were held back, and in small, 2600 pound cars. The exceptions were the 6 cylinder cars GM and Ford were happy to showcase as performance machines. The excptions were the 3.8 Turbo Grand National X, the Syclone 4.3 GMC Turbo V6, the SUV GM 4200 twin cam six. The 4 liter Cologne V6, and the Quad Cam SHO V6 and 3.4 Chevy V6's. And the 2011 onwards Duratec 3.7 Mustang engine with 305 hp.


A special note was that for a short period between 1966 to 1970, the very strong 326, 350, 389, 400 and 421 Poncho's had a really strong base engine, the OHC-6 and Sprint 6 230 cube six, with 165 hp gross as a 1bbl to the 207-215 hp gross Q jeted 10.5:1 compression engine. Even in a 3500 pound car they did 16.7 to 16 second flat quarter miles. The HO 250 4-bbl made 230 hp, but take-up was low, and the engine didn't sell and cost a bomb to make. A Pontiac V8 is an exceptionally good basic engine pacakge; even later smog turbo siamese port 301's were 16.7 second machines. So the overseas Opel Commodore B's and Toranas and the last VK Commodores continued with hot in line sixes.

In the US, the 3.8 for almost six years came out with a verile 210 to 230 hp net Supercharged option in 1989 to early 1995 model year MN12 Ford Thunderbirds. That was 70 to 90 hp up on the normal 140 hp 3.8.

The engine continued to be used in 4.2 Essex 90 degree Ford V6's in F150 trucks and MPV's. They have become pretty sought-after bases to make a supercharged engine swaps.

IMG_8342_R.jpg



The Ford bent six swaps are highly developed systems which are are very complicated swaps because they are intercooled and have lots of plumbing. To take them onwards from the stock 210 or the 230 hp the later ones had, it takes a lot of work on the pipe work entry, intercooling size and pipe bends. The M90 is ultimately a small 1.5 liter per rev supercharger, without a lot of scope. However, it will give you great horspower for the buck, and SC 12/14 Oguras and M112's and all manner of other stuff.


Have a look at the work Rick from the Four Eyed Fox forums had to do to get this Ford T-bird SuperCoupe set up below to work with a properly sized intercooler and with better bends and piping. That's what was needed to cover off the extra 31 cubic inches of bored and stroked 3.8 that came from a 210 Bhp 1989 "Supercoupe" T-Bird

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... uot/page10

boltedin_zps0a241b9f.jpg




GM in the US use the same Eaton M90 base supercharger that Ford used. In Australia, you find it in the M90 Supercharger in the L67 Buick GM3800 in SS and XU6 Commodores from 1996 to 2002.


So you won't have any problem tracking down some parts. Forced Induction Technology has parts off the shelf to help.


See balldrick's posts. /viewtopic.php?f=22&t=56560

xkeng3.jpg


balldrick is a Scaffolder,Rigger,Crane Driver from Rockhampton Australia with a penchant for really hard out 250 Falcon round bodies.... see /memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9923

balldrick":122499cw said:
Broncitis":122499cw said:
Can you tell us a little more about the build, is that a square or oval port m90, what will be your drive ratio and estimated boost and what are some of your internals, I'm glad to see another m90 coming up, I think you will be impressed, depending on alot of factors a 2.5.1 should put you at about 8-9 pounds, I ran mine at 2.65.1 and its a little much in the 200, gonna bring it down around 8 psi, absolutely great looking build and can't wait to hear how it runs, I'm getting to excited about another m90 build, lets not forget that great AL head that makes it all possible, compliments of classicinlines.

OK, its a oval port (third generation i think) with a Yellow terra snout extention, 12 counter weight crank from Aussie EF Falcon, ballancer is 6 rid serpintine to match blower, I will be getting a blower pulley made for about a 7 to 8 psi (worried about head gasket if i go to high) 200 rods(6.27 inch) Rover stroker 4.6 forged pistons(made by KB)3.720 inch(comp. dist- 1.195),Classic inline head,oversize valves, 250 crossflow anti-pump up lifters,Crow Cam (i sent my engine specs and this is what they made me) 63689 l/c 112 is 222/230 @ .050" 280/289
advertised .445"/.450" lift hydraulic.186 holden pushrods, yellow terra roller rockers, Classicinline 4 barrel manifold (they also helped me out with the tappit cover,Dissy,leads,various nuts and bolts etc. all packed and shiped really well, THANKS), Mighty deamon 595 blow-through carb, water to air barrell intercooler,bypass valve, plus blow-off valve as a pressure release for safty, MSD 6BTM, C4-2500 stall, alloy radiator,electric water pump and thermo fans. I brought one of the first heads and been slowly getting parts as i have funds and getting real close to being finished, I cant wait.


Broncitis has done similar stuff. He now has a F150 truck with a 4.9 six, but has had an Early Bronco with Supercharged 200


His photobucket shows it (some of his earlier pictures have been removed)

http://s717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/broncitis1/

use right click to open in a new tab or window

2009MikePilsner027.jpg


2009MikePilsner029.jpg




As for all the rest, see this post

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=72240


Under the user names, you should find the posts.
 
OH yeah...you said Paxton.


one or two Paxtons?


Mustangaroo's the man!


TwinSN89PaxtonBlowers.jpg



Mustangaroo":2jj77o3s said:
Sun May 17, 2009

Paxtonmustang2009.jpg

The above picture is the Paxton SN/89 mounted on the passagers side of my 1968 Mustang, I've had this setup for about five years, I had to relocate the battery to the trunk for the above installation. I am currently working on a drivers side install using the power steering mount. Sorry the engine bay is so dirty but this has been a daily driver for almost five years, I recently got a new H3 Hummer to replace the Mustang as my daily driver, hence I now can try something new.
8)
Paxtondriversside.jpg


We are also forgetting powerband


He had Eaton enough


M904_zps11868594.jpg


100_5041_zpsm0af1cwc.jpg
 
as for current (non Al' head) SC project :

... ongoing road tuning with the Vortech V2 centrifugal on pretty much stock (US) 250. Machinist cleaned up low-mile head, 302 valves/springs BUT directed NOT to plane/surface head and retain @ 62cc combustion chambers for projected CR @ 8:1 with 'modern' composite head gasket (w/ARP fasteners). Engine disassembled, crank and rods checked, reassembled (found one slightly bent pushrod evidently from factory.)

Initially ran terribly rich with the ( Hangar18 opened PVRC and bigger jets mods) . Rebuilt carb back to NA specs and tuned until achieved excellent running NA. Now adding boost in increments and keeping focused on the AFR gauge .

What kept this project nascent for a few years was the ribbed belt drive setup, boost referenced 'return' fuel system and ignition concerns for longevity and performance, physical mounting challenges ...

have fujn





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