Turbo 240 or 300

Ramian17":2m9k6jai said:
By intake runners do you mean the six short tubes after the larger 2.5 inch tube?
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Yes exactly.

I plugged all your specs into my engine simulator program (engine analyzer), because I would like to build a very similar motor. To my surprise the intake runner length had a much bigger effect than I had imagined. It could be inflated though. I think the projections are more accurate for a journal bearing turbo.

The screen shot I took was a 6” runner compared to a 22” ( roughly the efi manifold). I personally like the looks of the short log style intake though.

I know you probably don’t have room, but I figured I should through it out there while you are at this stage.

Keep up the good work. Big projects are hard to stay motivated, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel... or more Zen... like 500ft/lbs of Zen!!
 
Unfortunately I don't think I do. Maybe one day I'll create some crazy intake that looks like the header, but right now I just want the old girl to move again!!!
 
Dangit guys I'm super sorry. I have officially gone back to my real job. Which means pretty much no time for my project. I'm hoping to get sometime in on it sometime around June or July. I'm actually a good 1000 miles from my baby. Pretty lame I know. It's looking like it is officially going to bleed over into a two year project.... Super bummer. But I promise I haven't given up we will see this thing alive some day!!!!
 
Life gets in the way sometimes. Everyone can understand that.

Glad to hear you didn’t loose interest, or get so frustrated you had to walk away from it.

Just promise us some videos!
 
That I can promise for sure!!!! One day she'll be doing four wheeled burn outs with a giant trailer in tow jahahah!!!!
 
Well I don't know how many years it's been. I finally found some time for my dream ride. I got he phantom fuel pump installed in the new tank today. Gonna install the tank tomorrow and hopefully all the rest of the fuel system. Still working on the header and floor also. My questions are about the fuel system. Do you guys think I should us AN style line as much as I can or solid fuel line as much as I can, and what size of those should I use? Also the fuel regulator goes after the fuel rail correct? Any suggestions on mounting location of regulator? I was thinking outside of the doghouse/engine compartment.

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I'm a newbie that's happy to see this topic has been resurrected. It covers a lot of what I've been pondering recently for my new project.

I recently purchased an 85 E350 Quadravan with a 1bbl 300/C6 drive train. I plan to rebuild the engine so I know what's going on in there, switch to aftermarket multiport EFI (SDS EFI system) and a 5 speed. This topic will be very helpful. I'm considering a turbo/FMIC setup but I'm not sure I want to tackle fabricating an exhaust manifold to do things properly and get it all to fit in van.

The plan for the van is an offroad/overland camping rig.

I see a number of references to the FAQ section and forged pistons. But I think those posts are for an older version of the forum software. Where's the FAQ now? If I do plan to go the turbo route I'd prefer to use forged pistons.
 
All the 240/300 info is now contained within the ten sticky threads at the beginning of the [240-300 "Big Block" six performance] section.
Here is the thread on pistons and connecting rods.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80702

A quick summary:
There aren't any off the shelf forged pistons for the 1969 and later engines that use the .975" piston pins.
If the stock rods are bushed down to .912" then you can use the Ford 351 V8 forged pistons.
Otherwise you are looking at AutoTec custom forged pistons as the least expensive alternative.

Van engine compartments are cramped and the heat from the turbocharger could create problems.
If there is room you might consider a rear mount turbocharger under the back of the van.
It makes the exhaust system for the turbocharger much easier.

Are you dong the 5 speed tranny for better power and fuel economy?
 
Thanks for the link to the pistons & rods thread and the instructions on the other FAQ items. it helps a lot. I have some reading to do.

I'm switching to a manual transmission primarily for traction control off road. The van will eventually replace our current camping rig which is a 1980 Toyota Land Cruiser BJ45 Troopy. (3.4L intercooled turbo diesel, dual transfer cases and front/rear air locking diffs) I want the van to have similar go-anywhere capabilities. If it can go 90% of the places we can take the Troopy we'll be happy. We spent 2 months camping in Baja California in the Troopy late last year. We realized that some of the technical driving in the mountain passes near San Evaristo was much easier/safer with manual gearing and a low range transfer case. I'm not saying an automatic couldn't do it, it just would be more difficult to control wheel spin in low traction conditions. The 5th gear OD will be nice since the van already has 4.11 gears in it.

I'm only 50% sure about the turbo at this point. I don't like the potential reduction in overall reliability. The SDS EFI system can go either way (normally aspirated or forced induction). I want EFI for primarily dealing with elevation better than a carb setup. Any performance or fuel economy benefits are secondary considerations for me. I might pull a trailer someday with the van and thought the turbo system would be helpful in that area.

I can't wrap my head around how I would design a slip/expansion joint into a fabricated exhaust manifold for a turbo. (Think of the expansion joint in the Dodge Cummins 5.9 manifolds.) The turbo chokes off the exhaust and traps a ton more heat between the turbine and the exhaust valves. That heat results in a lot more expansion of the exhaust manifold. I'm worried about sheared-off exhaust manifold bolts if I did a simple/compact log style design. That's a long exhaust manifold that's got to grow in some controlled fashion to avoid problems. I haven't taken measurements yet but a rough guesstimate of expansion is 0.2 inches at 1250F EGT. I haven't gotten into studying the engine yet don't know if there's enough room to have slotted holes in the exhaust manifold for the front and rear cylinders.
 
6 to 8 lbs of boost would give you plenty of torque and if the engine compression and tune-up is conservative there should be good reliability.
There would be extra safety if you add a wide band knock sensor.

If you are going to use a simple log manifold it would be easier to use the Ford HD exhaust manifold.
If you are going to fabricate you do two separate manifolds like the EFI style and keep cylinders 1-3 isolated from 4-6.

Which SDS system are you looking at using.
Would you go distributorless?
 
I've used the distributorless "F" system from SDS on a 2.3L Ford turbo powered sandrail. I liked it. It's very straightforward. Mine was an older revision that didn't support a knock sensor. That's an option I would likely go for since I'm learning the 300 has little tolerance in this area.

I haven't decided if I would go with their E (distributor) or F (distributorless) system yet. Both options provide spark control so it's easy to pull back timing on boost and also limit fuel/timing by RPM. I was poking around under the hood in the van yesterday and see there's a lot of space available on the distributor side of the engine bay if I get rid of the distributor. Might be worth investigating mounting the turbo on that side of the engine.

I haven't had a chance to look at an internal diagram of the 300 yet. Does the distributor also drive the oil pump like the 2.3L? I don't know enough about the engine yet to make many decisions.

If I went with a turbo I'd plan to use the biggest FMIC I could fit in front of the radiator. I'd also likely switch to the radiator from a 460 van for added cooling.
 
The oil pump in the 300 six is driven by the distributor shaft.
You would need to use the bottom half of the distributor if you want to go distributorless.
The other advantage of going distributorless is you eliminate cap and rotor phasing problems.

The magnets that trigger the SDS system are normally mounted in the outer ring of the harmonic balancer.
The problem with the 4/9/300 six is the outer ring rides on an Elastomer ring and should not be used to hold the magnets.
You would need to make a magnet ring that bolts to the center hub of the balancer.
 
Thanks for the help and suggestions. I've been reading so much info here. This forum is amazing. As a non-member it's difficult to see how helpful some topics are because the images are hidden. It's a whole different experience as a member.

I have an older version Solidworks and access to a local CNC lathe/fab shop. If I have to make something to mount the SDS trigger magnets to the crank it won't be too difficult.

I just dug out the 1987 Ford Light Truck/Van shop manuals from my attic. Yes, my van is an 85 and the manuals are for an 87. The basics will be the same. It should be enough to keep me busy for a while.
 
Thanks for the diagram and all of the great info you provide in this forum.

I pulled the engine cover off today and kinda tried to plan how I might shoehorn a turbo in the engine compartment. The result is I'm not going to try to put a turbo in the van. There's no good way to install one in the engine bay and I'm not into the remote-mounted turbo idea in a vehicle that will see serious off road use. I'm worried all that extra plumbing could leave us stranded somewhere. So I'll plan to proceed like I'm building an RV engine to get us where we want to go. I will still likely go the SDS EFI route.
 
Good preliminary planning!
Since you are looking at using a manual transmission, what rpm range do you want to focus the engine torque at?
Also what octane pump gas do you want to build the engine for?
 
Since you are not turbocharging it would be good to move to the 240-300 "Big block" six Performance section.
 
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