Bench racing Heavy Hauler

MechRick

1K+
VIP
I've been thinking about selling my F150 in favor of an older IDI for years now. Problem is, most of those old trucks are beat to death, or on the edge of cavitation. I want the same level of reliability I enjoy with my 4.9.
There is always a Cummins swap, but that means cubic $$$.
I've been thinking about a '65-'67 F250 or F350, using my truck as a donor (it's pretty beat up too, and worth more in parts than selling whole). This would give me 7000+ tow capacity, and I could do anything I wanted to the engine, including turbo.

Question: How quiet can the '65-'67 cab be, compared to say, a mid nineties F150?

And, how would you build it?
 
I would upgrade the brake system to big disks all the way around.
Then turbocharge the engine.
 
I drove a 1965 F350 for many years first with a 240 six and later with severial 300' sixes, stock NP435, Dana 60 that had about 4:88 or 5:14's, the stock 16 inch wheels with Radels. It was a standard base model cab so no door panels, cardboard headliner, rubber floor mat, and was a short wheel base dually with a Ford 9' stake bed dump. It drove great and steered easy and had more pulling torque compared to the 1954 F350 (272 Y Block with T18) that I drove before it. To this day it's still one of my faveriote trucks that wish I still had, it would do about anything I needed it too. It was kind of loud in the cab but I think with some work using dynamat along with some spray under coating, on the floors, firewall, back of cab, inside doors, and roof you could get one to be much quieter. Good luck in the hunt. :nod:
 
pmuller9":39wwxtxz said:
I would upgrade the brake system to big disks

Discs in the front for sure. I would settle for a Sterling with slide off drums in the rear.

From what I'm reading, I would need an F250 camper special to get the big king pins in the front (2wd).

Wondering if I could port and install a pedestal carb head on the hyper piston short block and get away with it. Will have to check cylinder bores and ring lands for wear.

I want to do an 87 octane turbo. EFI, knock sensing and after cooling probably a must.
 
I heard there was a product sold at Home Depot or Lowe's that was similar to DynaMat, but much cheaper. You might want to investigate that as an option.
 
MechRick":1vbzjir4 said:
[Wondering if I could port and install a pedestal carb head on the hyper piston short block and get away with it. Will have to check cylinder bores and ring lands for wear.
I want to do an 87 octane turbo. EFI, knock sensing and after cooling probably a must.
The carb head has 3 less bolts that support the EFI exhaust manifold but that still seems to work ok.
If you are not going to use the EFI exhaust than it certainly doesn't make a difference.

If you are going to work the engine under boost for a fair amount of time, install hard exhaust valve seat inserts and use Stellite exhaust valves.
 
pmuller9":1nnsdig7 said:
install hard exhaust valve seat inserts and use Stellite exhaust valves.

I understand the advantage of hardened seats, but that puts me at the mercy of the machine shop. I'd rather burn a valve than drop one. Before I would commit to cutting for inserts, I would have to trust the machinist. Well.

As I'm planning to tow with the truck, I think it would spend some time under (low) boost...
 
I drove a 71 f250 for awhile, base model with steel door panels and such. It made some noise, nothing I minded, but far louder then my 96 f250. I think all the upholstery in the newer (if you wanna call 20+ year old 90's trucks newer) trucks makes them quieter. I'm in the process of turboing a 300 that will see towing. However my 96 f250 with a 460 efi is a great option. It tows 8000 lbs at 75+ mph with the cruise control on and one hand on the wheel. I've actually seen 12-14 mpg highway towing on long trips.
 
http://www.lobucrod.com/
This is company we went with for sound / heat insulation in the cab of early Ford Truck.
We used this in a 1969 f100 cab. Used on the floor, firewall, inside doors, between door skin and door panel, on roof skin, and behind the seat. made a huge difference in the sound inside the cab. It was affordable and easy to install.
 
I had planned for the '94 I have to install a bread truck 3.9L 4BT. Back when they were reasonable. Now you are lucky to find one for less than $3k.

There are also emissions issues installing a 4BT in a '94 F150. Or a '94 F250, for that matter. The 4BT was never used in light duty pickups. Only in medium duty step vans. Even if you could sneak one past a state emissions test, it would still violate fed emissions law. I may be bouncing around several states over the next few years. It would be nice to have a combination that would pass (or be exempt) everywhere.

Even if I build a '60's F250 with my six driveline, I could always drop in a 5.9L 12v down the road, using a bread truck adapter. Six Cummins are a bit less $$ than 4BT's. But think about this:

12v Cummins base HP/Torque 160/400 4.9L base HP/torque 145/265 (my current truck is probably more like 155/280)
12v Cummins max stock HP/Torque 215/440 Mild 4.9 Turbo @ 8 psi ~ 230/450-ish.

With similar driving characteristics. And diesel and 91 octane are similarly priced, at least in my neck of the, cacti....

So the overriding reason for a diesel swap would be for only the increased MPG.

ps. I realize that you can hotrod the 5.9 to some incredible HP/Torque numbers...
 
ive toyed with ,and been played by, heavy duty tonners most of my life, i almost said "adult life" but im still waiting on that phase

i have a 65 66 and a 64-ish.
the cab sound i get with 292's is a simple old-fashioned kind of noise that is not objectionable.its a sound i love. the heavy slamming doors, the rattling windows, the creaky seat. and the battery box lid rattling. heater motor is far too loud and not nearly powerful enough. the frame groans. rain on the roof sounds explosive , wind through the drip rails. vent windows whistling, yea its a state of mind kinda thing.

rammat or dynamat would isolate the engine noise but will do nothing for the other quirks of this lovely old beast.
and the 300 is not objectionable in its sounds anyway.
im more interested in insulation and how you will cool the cab, and headroom and so on.

lots of support from me if you go inline 6 with turbo. im loving sleeper 6 build except he is going for high h.p.i would love to see what you could do with a six in the towing lower register.

WHAT ARE YOU USING THIS TRUCK FOR? A CAMPER?

i would most definately poo-poo the idea of a cummins.
a. it wont fit lengthwise.
b. cooling is an issue.
c. you will rattle your teeth with vibration and noise
d. the frames are far too weak to handle the weight and torque.

for me with a diesel 2x4 i would use the 66 cab on an early f superduty frame with the rockwell 11K front axle .
discs on 4 corners
dana 80 (yuck) rear axle
driveline brake and 5 speed.then on that frame; an aluminum flat bed....but thats just me. and you knew all that about the fsuprerduty having been a ford mech/tech, but i love to talk about this subject so i throw it out there.

remember the 66 is 34" frame you will need to source a cab chassis rear axle if your flatbedding. pickup box ;i think your sterling might be too wide hub face to hub face unless its a c/c.

holler if i can help with parts or truck pieces.
 
sdiesel":2q69o877 said:
WHAT ARE YOU USING THIS TRUCK FOR? A CAMPER?

Yes.
I would tow a car on a trailer all day with my half ton. I want to be able to fill the fresh water tank in my 5,500 trailer, load it full of gear and head for the mountains. Something I would be hesitant to try now.
I remember my Dad's '70 half ton with a 360 FE and 3 on the tree. I get what you are saying about character.
So you think the '65-'79 trucks would be overmatched with a 5.9? With the big king pins I would think the suspension could take it.
 
The Camper Special F250 or F350 large kingpins will handle it fine and come with large dual piston calipers and rotors that also work very well. I have the same in my 67 Crew I daily. Run metal bushings and keep them lubed.

The interior noise will never be comparable without extensive work. I have extensive sound deadener everywhere I can reach and it still needs more in the inaccessible areas around the rear window, front kickpanels, etc. The wind noise is pretty bad around the recessed door windows and from the full length drip rail and windows don't always fit tight in the channels even when new. I plan on trying to run another seal on the outer doors where possible, which should improve the wind noise quite a bit also. You would want to run as many interior panels made of sound absorbing materials as possible. The cardboard headliner and steel interior only reflect and increase the noise. The Peel n Seal from Lowe's or Home Depot is not worth comparing to real deadener, I tried. If not worried about weight, Knu Koncepts Kolossus is the best for the dollar.

Aerodynamics are nonexistent and it takes quite a bit of power to just maintain interstate speeds and even being lowered a lot and as much power as my 300 makes, it would be miserable towing a load over 55-60mph. There is no comparison to my stock 96 12v Cummins with free pump tweaks.
 
For now, I found a 1988 f250 2x4 extended cab long bed, 460 5 speed. Low miles (105k). Should do a better job pulling than my half ton.
 
Not a bad choice. The seats, along with the ones from your 94 will fit a 67+ truck also...just sayin ;) The early trucks really don't have much room the way the seats and steering wheel and column are, but you can gain some room with the later 80's-early 90's seats.

I'd still love to see a well designed and built turbo 300 truck. Something that will take abuse towing and not just a high HP dyno pull or 1/4 mile run. Something with a diesel size intercooler, radiator, oil cooler maybe, maybe small nozzle WMI and large tank, lots of heat shielding and insulation, etc.
 
Now that I have a tow mule, if I stumble across an early club or crew cab I might start a project like that, I can take my time with one now.
 
Back
Top