Timing for a 200 turbo

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thatblue_67stang
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Timing for a 200 turbo

Post #1 by thatblue_67stang » Sun May 27, 2018 9:26 pm

Been working on tuning my 200 turbo and idk what to do for timing. I have a boost timing master to pull timing and a locked dizzy. People are telling me to unlock the dizzy fully and some say run locked mechanical and run a line to the vacuum advance so it runs better at idle. Anyone who owns a 200 turbo can you please help.
Brayton
1967 Ford Mustang Coupe
200 Inline 6 Turbo Charged

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pmuller9
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Re: Timing for a 200 turbo

Post #2 by pmuller9 » Sun May 27, 2018 10:38 pm

The MSD boost timing master only retards the timing with respect to boost but it does not simulate mechanical advance like the MSD programmable 6AL-2 6530.

Since you are using a stock cam the engine still needs mechanical advance.
If the dizzy is locked out then there is too much timing at low rpm even with the boost retard and you can hurt the engine.

thatblue_67stang
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Re: Timing for a 200 turbo

Post #3 by thatblue_67stang » Sun May 27, 2018 10:47 pm

pmuller9 wrote:The MSD boost timing master only retards the timing with respect to boost but it does not simulate mechanical advance like the MSD programmable 6AL-2 6530.

Since you are using a stock cam the engine still needs mechanical advance.
If the dizzy is locked out then there is too much timing at low rpm even with the boost retard and you can hurt the engine.



I might as well put your number on speeddial. Thank you so much. What degree do u recommend me starting at. Also should I run vacuum advance also.
Brayton
1967 Ford Mustang Coupe
200 Inline 6 Turbo Charged

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thatblue_67stang
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Re: Timing for a 200 turbo

Post #4 by thatblue_67stang » Sun May 27, 2018 10:48 pm

pmuller9 wrote:The MSD boost timing master only retards the timing with respect to boost but it does not simulate mechanical advance like the MSD programmable 6AL-2 6530.

Since you are using a stock cam the engine still needs mechanical advance.
If the dizzy is locked out then there is too much timing at low rpm even with the boost retard and you can hurt the engine.



But also wouldnt yhe mechanical advance and boost retard work against eachother.
Brayton
1967 Ford Mustang Coupe
200 Inline 6 Turbo Charged

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pmuller9
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Re: Timing for a 200 turbo

Post #5 by pmuller9 » Sun May 27, 2018 11:25 pm

thatblue_67stang wrote:But also wouldn't the mechanical advance and boost retard work against each other.

Look at it this way.
No matter where the ignition timing is when there is no boost, as soon as you increase manifold pressure the timing needs to retard at that point.

Since I don't know how much mechanical advance your distributor has, it is more important to check total timing without the
vacuum advance hooked up.
Rev the engine till the timing stops advancing and I would suggest that the total timing be at 34 degrees BTDC at that point.

I would not run the vacuum advance till everything else is sorted out including the carburetor tuning.
You don't need the extra variable.

Most everyone starts with 1 degree of retard per pound of boost at the boost timing controller

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Re: Timing for a 200 turbo

Post #6 by thatblue_67stang » Mon May 28, 2018 12:08 am

pmuller9 wrote:
thatblue_67stang wrote:But also wouldn't the mechanical advance and boost retard work against each other.

Look at it this way.
No matter where the ignition timing is when there is no boost, as soon as you increase manifold pressure the timing needs to retard at that point.

Since I don't know how much mechanical advance your distributor has, it is more important to check total timing without the
vacuum advance hooked up.
Rev the engine till the timing stops advancing and I would suggest that the total timing be at 34 degrees BTDC at that point.

I would not run the vacuum advance till everything else is sorted out including the carburetor tuning.
You don't need the extra variable.

Most everyone starts with 1 degree of retard per pound of boost at the boost timing controller


Ok so would that 34 degrees be with the 1 degree of retard per psi. So if in running 5 psi it should be at 39 degrees without boost and the retard or should it be 34 degrees without boost retard
Brayton
1967 Ford Mustang Coupe
200 Inline 6 Turbo Charged

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pmuller9
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Re: Timing for a 200 turbo

Post #7 by pmuller9 » Mon May 28, 2018 12:32 am

That is 34 degrees total timing without boost so with 5 lbs of boost the total timing would be 29 degrees.

I like to check to make sure the boost timing controller is working by adding a fitting to my leak down tester that attaches to the boost reference line from the controller.
Then I add pressure using the air regulator and pressure gauge on the leak down tester and check the timing to see if it retards the correct amount.

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Re: Timing for a 200 turbo

Post #8 by thatblue_67stang » Mon May 28, 2018 12:44 am

pmuller9 wrote:That is 34 degrees total timing without boost so with 5 lbs of boost the total timing would be 29 degrees.

I like to check to make sure the boost timing controller is working by adding a fitting to my leak down tester that attaches to the boost reference line from the controller.
Then I add pressure using the air regulator and pressure gauge on the leak down tester and check the timing to see if it retards the correct amount.



Yes I have done that already, and ok so 29 at full boost sounds good. Thanks alot....again. if I need help is email or private message better
Brayton
1967 Ford Mustang Coupe
200 Inline 6 Turbo Charged

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pmuller9
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Re: Timing for a 200 turbo

Post #9 by pmuller9 » Mon May 28, 2018 12:48 am

thatblue_67stang wrote:Yes I have done that already, and ok so 29 at full boost sounds good. Thanks alot....again. if I need help is email or private message better

I prefer to keep this type of dialog open in case I'm missing something giving someone else the chance to add or correct.

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Re: Timing for a 200 turbo

Post #10 by thatblue_67stang » Mon May 28, 2018 12:54 am

pmuller9 wrote:
thatblue_67stang wrote:Yes I have done that already, and ok so 29 at full boost sounds good. Thanks alot....again. if I need help is email or private message better

I prefer to keep this type of dialog open in case I'm missing something giving someone else the chance to add or correct.



Ok no problem
Brayton
1967 Ford Mustang Coupe
200 Inline 6 Turbo Charged

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Re: Timing for a 200 turbo

Post #11 by thatblue_67stang » Tue May 29, 2018 2:50 pm

pmuller9 wrote:
thatblue_67stang wrote:Yes I have done that already, and ok so 29 at full boost sounds good. Thanks alot....again. if I need help is email or private message better

I prefer to keep this type of dialog open in case I'm missing something giving someone else the chance to add or correct.



ok so one more thing. there is a guy who ik who ran a turbo inline setup like mine with a non programable 6al-2 and a boost timing master. he made 300 hp with locked dizzy at 32 degrees and a half a degree of retard per psi. do you think i still need to run open dizzy
Brayton
1967 Ford Mustang Coupe
200 Inline 6 Turbo Charged

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pmuller9
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Re: Timing for a 200 turbo

Post #12 by pmuller9 » Tue May 29, 2018 7:00 pm

thatblue_67stang wrote:ok so one more thing. there is a guy who ik who ran a turbo inline setup like mine with a non programable 6al-2 and a boost timing master. he made 300 hp with locked dizzy at 32 degrees and a half a degree of retard per psi. do you think i still need to run open dizzy

It depends on the camshaft profile.
Was he using a larger aftermarket cam?

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Re: Timing for a 200 turbo

Post #13 by thatblue_67stang » Tue May 29, 2018 10:54 pm

pmuller9 wrote:
thatblue_67stang wrote:ok so one more thing. there is a guy who ik who ran a turbo inline setup like mine with a non programable 6al-2 and a boost timing master. he made 300 hp with locked dizzy at 32 degrees and a half a degree of retard per psi. do you think i still need to run open dizzy

It depends on the camshaft profile.
Was he using a larger aftermarket cam?



i think so yes
Brayton
1967 Ford Mustang Coupe
200 Inline 6 Turbo Charged

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