Turbo a stock 200

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StarDiero75
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Turbo a stock 200

Post #1 by StarDiero75 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:53 am

Howdy Guys,

So im looking at getting a little more power from my 66' 200 as i have a 2.8 8" in the back and a 3 speed 3.03, weber 32/36, and a CRT Performance HEI. In the future i plan to put a 4.11 rear gear and a T5 with a .63 OD. Also id like to put on a 77'+ head later too.

Is there a small turbo i can put on to add a little more power? I have dual out headers from V.I. that i have yet to put on, will they be a problem with a turbo? Can i use the stock cam in it? Can i keep my 32/36? Can i run the car as is with the stock manifold and run like 6-9psi?

Im new to turbo stuff entirely but i know the possibilities they posses.

Let me know what i can do to make more power

Thanks guys!
Ryan
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200 and 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), weber 32/36, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Turbo a stock 200

Post #2 by xctasy » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:13 am

StarDiero75 wrote:Howdy Guys,

So im looking at getting a little more power from my 66' 200 as i have a 2.8 8" in the back and a 3 speed 3.03, weber 32/36, and a CRT Performance HEI. In the future i plan to put a 4.11 rear gear and a T5 with a .63 OD. Also id like to put on a 77'+ head later too.

Is there a small turbo i can put on to add a little more power? I have dual out headers from V.I. that i have yet to put on, will they be a problem with a turbo? Can i use the stock cam in it? Can i keep my 32/36? Can i run the car as is with the stock manifold and run like 6-9psi?

Im new to turbo stuff entirely but i know the possibilities they posses.

Let me know what i can do to make more power

Thanks guys!
Ryan



In my honest, humble opinion

Firstly, stop thinking like a sheep, and think about what is essential to the job. Don't follow conventional wisdom. Folow people who have done it


Secondly, Don't be concerned about many things, because only one thing at a time is important. Your trying to cover too much.


Thirdly, wrong purchases that don't suit the application need to be recinded.

That means


- Get rid of your CRT HEI. Wrong purchase for a Turbo car. Yellow Strain Durapsark II or Mega Jolt and TFi or EDIS 6. 100% Ford igntion always.


- Get rid of your headers

Forthly. Things that don't work with a turbo should be eliminated.

- Forget the 4.11 gears and the 0.63 overdrive. You are "buying in" to the idea that you need stump puller axle gears to make it a street demon, and a loping Moon Shot 5th to cruise. Just one T03 60 series or T04 0.57 turbo A turbo will make 350 potential horsepower on a stump puller I6 that has 155 lb-ft at 1600 to 2200 rpm "Before Turbo". After application of say 9 pouns of boost, that 200 cube stump puller will behave like a 300 cubic inch EFI 4.9 liter F150 truck off line.

Copy FirstFox, derangedFords90 and Lincs200 and Bort62's conversions.

Buy a close ratio T5, it fits to a 3.03 bellhusing with a MDL adaptor, and so does a 9-1/8" clutch if the inside of the bellhousing is cleaned up. Keep those cruiser 2.83:1 gears on that 7-1/4" axle, shop around for an LSD limited slip differential and stop using stuff that doesn't work on a turbo car.


None of the existing xtra stuff you have is of any use for a car that will make torque from idle to 3000 rpm, and hard, nasty power from 4000 to 5000 rpm.


On FordSix, FirstFox, Derangedfords90, Lincs200 all blew up there 1-bbl 3.3 turbos after getting brilliant results for acceleration.



Lincs200 was an overboosted 3.3 1982 Fairmont B code engine in a 3.8 1983 Mustang

Image


EGR blockoff
Image

fuel solenoid
Image

AEROMOTIVE regulator
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image



FirstFox copied that system on his 1980 Fairmont sedan with T5 and 2.73 axle

First Fox wrote:Just sent this video to a member here and thought a few of you guys would dig it. It is just a short video of my wideband and boost gauges during a measured quarter mile on a closed road. I took the vid on my phone for my own benefit so I could look closely at the gauges after my carb tuning so the quality is bad, but it sounds pretty cool and I thought Some of you guys may like it.

After going over the video a few times with a stopwatch it comes very very close to what the gtech on the windshield indicated: 14.20 ish at 92 mph. This is not top fuel funny car fast at all of course guys but I am still pretty happy with the fact that this is a 200 inch nearly stock engine with a ONE barrel carb running 87 octane gasoline, and during this run never exceeded 4000 rpm. Its is also an incredibly driveable car that commutes 180 miles one way and nets 31 plus mpg. :beer:

Ford inline six. 0 - 90 mph, 12 psi: http://youtu.be/d5eNTz0MAwI

My garage:

1962 Falcon. 170/Auto.
1965 Fairlane. Twin turbocharged 289/4 speed.
1965 Thunderbird. 390/Auto.
1980 Fairmont. Turbocharged 200, 260 Comp cam/T5 and '93 Mustang steering/suspension.
1981 F-100. 300/4 speed OD. I use this primarily to haul my cars home after I modify them and they break.
1987 Thunderbird Turbocoupe. 2.3/T5. Porche designed 16 valve, twin cam cylinder head.




"This video was shot mainly so I could watch the wideband and boost gauges during a measured quarter mile run on a closed road. It wasn't until after I played it back that I realized it sounded pretty cool so I posted it. :) This turbo 200 blows through a ONE barrel Holley carb atop a nearly stock engine. It is in a 79 Fairmont that is driven daily and year round in northern Michigan. It runs a 14.20 et @ 92 mph and delivers over 30 mpg."



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Derangedfords90 at FordSix did the whole kit and caboodle and even kept the A/C, catalyst, and the high mount starter C3 auto

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Last edited by xctasy on Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Re: Turbo a stock 200

Post #3 by xctasy » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:13 am

FirstFox got 32 mpg and sub 14 second 1/4 miles and true on road excellence.


because 1978 to 1983 3.3'S were downgraded to cast iron rod econo engines, as from 1969 on wards, the castings and reliabity was downgraded due to cost cutbacks. Heads improved, ignition, emissions, induction, cam profiles, gearboxes and carbs got better, but everything else performance and factor of safety declined.

The I6 is always normally way more reliable than any other engine, but when pressed, with stock ring clearances and carburation its a lottery.


But ya know, $2500 always gets you 13.5 seconds, even with an old automatic C5 equiped X code 3.3 with a 400 dollar Bord Warner TO4 0.57 turbo.


On 13 pounds boost, you can get 84.76 mph at 8.93 secs over the 1/8 th mile and 92.68 mph at 13.879 sec
Image


On 20 pounds boost 85.45 mph at 8.907 secs 1/8 mile with 2600 pounds makes 252.10 flywheel HP and 226.89 rear wheel HP from http://www.wallaceracing.com/hpcalculatoreigth.php
.
102.5 mph 1/4 mile with 2600 pounds is 224.62 rear wheel HP from http://www.wallaceracing.com/et-hp-mph.php.
Image


One good turbo, a rising rate fuel pump, perhaps an intercooler, and 3.3, you are golden for a few seconds on the 1320. http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?145379-Best-turbo-for-3-8

Once you go past 7 psi and travel to 12 or 20 psi, then you get this.Always

Image
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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Turbo a stock 200

Post #4 by xctasy » Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:31 am

/viewtopic.php?t=38301&highlight=
falcon60 wrote:Yes,the T5 is a V8 unit. I've been shifting about 2500 rpm just cruising around.....drops the rpm to just under 2000 after the shift and the car loves it. I drove about 50 miles this morning and still am amazed how well it pulls 5th gear at 1600- 1900 rpm. The final drive ratio in 5th is 1.89!
My block is from an '82 Capri,but I didn't pull it out. It was swapped out in favor of a 302 by the Capri's owner and I bought the complete engine from him.I needed it so I could run the V8 T5 bell and clutch with the T5 trans and it's working very well. It's just a blast to drive now!

Terry

'60 Falcon/ Hot Rod 200 T5/Mav 8" 17.61 at 81 mph (Daily Driver)

'86 Mustang/302 C4 11.73 at 113

'26 Model T coupe 500 Cadillac TH400 9.96 at 134 mph



I drive a 240 hp 7.8 liter turbo charged Diesel 12 ton Truck which delivers 5 tons of bread on 65 stops per 8 hour night. Its always going
forwards,
backwards,
then Highway,
then urban etc. .... from sea level to 1000 feet

and I wish for a closer set of ratios!.

Higher geared first, lower geared top. The 60 Ford Falcon that Terry has uses the same 2.79 to 2.73:1 axle ratio FirstFox does in his 79-80 Fairmont,

with the same V8 T5 0.68:1 5th gear. Its narrow ratio with a 3.35 or 2.95 first.Overall top is 2.79 times 0.68, or about 1.89:1.

Both Terry and Sam (1st Foxes real name), they love the gearing, no matter if the car does a 17.61 sec at 81 mph 1/4 mile or 14.2 at 92 mph.

32.6 MPG for Sam's ride at 55 mph.


A turbo engine on even 9 pounds boost is a conventional engine that behaves like one 1.5 times bigger. You gear a turbo engine accordingly...like its a 300.

300's and tow 4 ton GVCW's with 5 speed geaboxes and 2.47 axle, and do 32 mpg at 55mph unleaden.


Strike the demon gears and higher ratio top off the grocery list is my suggestion.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Turbo a stock 200

Post #5 by StarDiero75 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:20 pm

Ok so i want to get this straight since that was a lot
•1. Ditch my HEI and put on a Duraspark ii or one of the ones you listed
•2. Keep my 68' exhaust manifold on it and dont use the headers
•3. Use a close ratio T5 with not so tall gears in first and not so short gears in the rear, so like 2.something for first anand keep my 2.8 rear with like .8something for OD
•4. Keep to about 6-9psi for stock engine
•5. Get an electric fuel pump that can deal with the turbo


On the carb i didnt get what i should use. Is my Weber 32/36 ok or will i need to decide either a 1bbl or a 2bbl?
Id like the extra mileage so a 1bbl wouldnt be bad, but if my weber works, id think i could do even better with the small venturi.

Thanks
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200 and 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), weber 32/36, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Turbo a stock 200

Post #6 by xctasy » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:59 am

StarDiero75 wrote:Ok so i want to get this straight since that was a lot
•1. Ditch my HEI and put on a Duraspark ii or one of the ones you listed
•2. Keep my 68' exhaust manifold on it and dont use the headers
•3. Use a close ratio T5 with not so tall gears in first and not so short gears in the rear, so like 2.something for first anand keep my 2.8 rear with like .8something for OD
•4. Keep to about 6-9psi for stock engine
•5. Get an electric fuel pump that can deal with the turbo


On the carb i didnt get what i should use. Is my Weber 32/36 ok or will i need to decide either a 1bbl or a 2bbl?
Id like the extra mileage so a 1bbl wouldnt be bad, but if my weber works, id think i could do even better with the small venturi.

Thanks



My recomendations.

1. Yes, talk to wsa111 (Bill) and although you can get a MSD and Blue Strain Duraspark Through him, a Yellow Strain DSII will have an ablity to pull bakc peak advance under boost with ease.

2 Yes, but I'd use the later iron exhaust header like derangedfords90 does

3 Yes

4 Yes. 6 to 9 psi works with a Strip Domintor fuel pump

5. No. Never use an electric fuel pump unless you are going well over 9 psi of boost and have a thing for detail. The risk is always running it out of fuel if its got an electric pump. The Summit version of the Carter Strip Dominator can be boost referenced, and will make over 10.5 pounds per square inch with ease.


Lets be clear. My first turbos were Propane and Diesel conversions to old Fords and Holdens. V6 Cologne, and a Nissan Diesel LD28 with T03 60 turbo. You can make an insane amount of power with anthing you have in your hands if you are carefull. You learn to be carefull by learning form others who have messed up. LPG or Diesel, you won't mess those conversions up. Carb gasoline with electric fuel pump, I assure you its a risk if its over 9 psi of boost. Weber 2/36's are especially bad because a stock 32/36 is on its edge in even a 112 hp gross Ford SOHC 2 liter, and they have very specfic issues relating to PCV and fuel pressure, even before you go into a turbo instillation. They can work, but they are 110 hp net carbs stock, and to make 185 hp with a turbo in a 3.3 Falcon six, you'll have to modify a lot of other parts.


You can make anything work, but we are looking for low hanging fruit that works. Not triumphs of Engineering Over Common Sense.


By the time FirstFox and Linc200 and probably Derangedfords90 blew up there 3.3 Turbo 1-bbls, they were looking for options with better fuel delivery.

The guys who have made great power with little cost I list below. Those combinations suit turbo 3.3 engines. Fuel supply to any tubo engine must exceed deamand by a huge amount to esnure no lean out occurs under boost.


A good Holley 2300 7448 or 4412 or Autolite 2100/ Motorcraft 2150 carb will work best with a direct mount conversion. They force you to fix stuff up before you can fit them. I recomend what works. I've recommneded triple 32/36's to another guy in Canada who had been a hard core biker dude...... and the recommndation suits what the Orginal Poster is likely to be able to use. So if I told you the whys and wherefores, you'd put out the Wedding Singer Kill Me Now label


My advice is anthing traditionally used by Ford and Ak Miller, thats what works for carburation. Ak's recommendations varied, because he experimented with everything. His top selections were firstly based on his long time asociation with the Ford Autolite company (1959-1971). He then worked for Fords Motorcraft division as a consultant, and also Impco Gas

In 1967
Autolite 1101 1-bbl,

then twin H6 Jag carbs Dual singles,

then four Kihein 40 mm's,

In 1970
then triple Offenhauser (Holley 1908's at the ends, an Autolite 1100 or 1101 at the center),

In 1980

Motorcrafts 2150 2-bbl


Specfic Turbo recomendations were firstly an Impco LPG conversion with a CA 200/225/425 on a variety of adaptors from 1970 to 1986.


If gasoline turbo, he started off with a downdraft 4-BBL Holley on a Scwitzer turbo like the carb turbo GM cars, and by 1980 that was what he used.


For easiest results, the carb can be changed to a Ford Motorcraft 2150 2-bl and you can rework the head like Crosley's or Stanton's direct mount carb adaptor. CrBobcat has an example of that carb, how it's situated, and its linkage, which has all FalconSedan Delivery's recomendations.


Note that Ford was expriementing with a variety of 2-bbl factory 200 options for the 1978 model year, and it instead re-invested in the 2.3 Turbo Carb four, which was because Ford was scared that there would be another Yom Kipper gas crunch. The best advice is to copy what Ford did in 1960 with the Strop and Holman Moody Tri Power, or the ill fated 1978 2-bbl log head. The 78 log head is a Direct Mount carb adaptor like what Crosley or Stanton' or CrBobcat use.

The Weber 32/36 can do fine, but the area under the carb presents the problem. That carb, when blow thru' turboed, requires an update to a 2.5 mm needle and seat, and a lot of other work.


Webers have very poor needle and seat valves at the float bowl, and require a differential Malplasi rising rate fuel pressure regulator and you can feed it all with either a 66Mustang6 style Carter Strip Dominator mechanical fuel pump, or electric.

I don't trust electric pumps. Ford didn't either. It took them years to phase in an intank fuel pump. Worst thing you can do to a turbo is supply aerated gasoline or insufficent gas supply so it runs out at rpm under boost.

Based on the tuning problems 90% of all EFi guys have (an inability to supply a rational, Air Fuel ratio on a loaded engine on the conditions enountered on the road), I'm adamant the electric fuel pump is Public Enemy Number One.

Does10s electric pump system works though.


Thing is, the old triple carb Offy intake with three carbs never has a fuel deficency, so three like the 1098/1100/1908 system FalconSedanDeliveries used or the Neatherlands JD's YFA Carters or three Weber 34 ICT or ICH's like kevl058''s is also an excellent choice.

Note 1. US carbs don't have float problems, and are designed for much bigger engines, and there is a parts supply which will reamin in the AutoZone books for years.


Note 2. US Mechanical Fuel pumps are the best around if they were designed for a Big Block V8 like the Carter Strip Dominator was. Old mechanical pumps don't have issues supplying fuel to big old V8's


Note 3. US multiple carb instillations are designed around single 1-bbl carbs that did service in 200, 240, 250 and 300 cube engines, and they don't have float delivery problems for a turbo instillation.

Note 4. In my country, anyone who spends a cent or dollar on an EFi style electric pump fuel delivery system fast finds out that the systems are not reliable, and they are totally geared up for a narrow band of horspower with very specfic requirements for pump hanger and delivery or return lines. Return lines aren't what people like to run. 90% Of Ford fuel tanks from a 60's or 70's car will have rust in it, or totally nerked fuel lines. Going to any electric fuel pump will require a total engineering solutions, and that's not over thinking it, thats a fact.

Going electric is playing fate with fuel shut off in an accident, and risks running out of fuel at wide open throttle, or around a corner or up a hill, or reversing up a bank. Running a car out of fuel at a 1/4 full tank or at any time when you expect to have 250 hp on offer is very dangerous. My Explorer used to run out of gas on uphill bends when you throttled off. It then became tail happy. Thats just a 205 hp 4liter SUV. Ford engineered that truck really good, but after 15 years, the fuel delkivery system exhibted faults typical of all electric fuel pump cars. I have been stranded many times by electric fuel pumps. Adding an electric fuel pump to an old Ford requires other other things to be worked through. My recommendatio is to always Eliminate it from your grocery list unless its for priming a carb that's been sitting idle for a few days.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Turbo a stock 200

Post #7 by StarDiero75 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:04 am

Ok so carb wise im best to ditch the 32/36 and get a 2100 then, i take it. Or go tripower. Id like tripower but i heard its a butt to keep in tune on a daily driver. I can look at getting a 78' head and a autolite 2100. I do have a 63' autolite 1100 and 2 1950's Holley 1904s for 223s and 1 1908 with an auto choke, but i think thats meant for a 170.

Ive heard the later exhaust manifolds suck b/c they have emissions crap in them, while my 68' is large and doesnt have any of the BS in it. But a later one is better? How so?

Is the carter strip dominator made for a 200? I cant seem to find a mechanical one that goes higher than 7psi max.
You're right, id prefer to stay mechanical. I hate most electrical stuff and dont trust it.

I will talk to bill when i start to plan to put this together. It ain't gonna be for awhile. I want to learn a bit before i try this.

Thanks
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200 and 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), weber 32/36, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Turbo a stock 200

Post #8 by xctasy » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:30 am

Fuel pump?



hasa68mustang
&
kirkallen143


They nailed it back in the early 00's.


I've copied that as an In line turbo Ford six solution. Not SBF

I worked it out a few years ago, although I had the info way before that.


They always say"Never run a turbo out of fuel".

I'm a luddite, I don't like submersible electric fuel pumps, they are a stupid idea, and create in service reliabity problems becasue fuel isn't ever clean, and none of the parts can last the same 50 years my old AC fuel pumps could. I spent 2 years working with Grunfos staged submersiable pumps when Gold Mining...we had constant particulate problems, and had to do rutine praventative maintenace to get them working. We just decided to use an air lift pump, and an Ingersol at surface pressure system in the end.

I feel that suppliers to the industry aren't focused on long term solutions, becasue the working life of a car is really 7 years, not 17 as it used to be. Or 37 if its a Fox, or 57 if its a 1960 Falcon....

The problem I have is my CFi Toyota 1.8 Corona does 32 mpg, and its never had its eectric fuel pump replaced.


Going back to leak proof Mechanical Fuel Pump gaskets, and thinking boost, I got this:-

The best bet , the Rolls Royce mechanical fuel pump for a Ford I6, is the 120 gph Carter M4891 Super Strip pump for 350 Chevs It's a little X'y regards dollar purchase but it works.

Image


Then you boost refrence it. For sub 9 psi boost, thats about it

Image
https://www.theturboforums.com/images/imported/2007/02/engine8-1.jpg[

Image
https://www.theturboforums.com/attachments/pump-jpg.459271/


For 12 psi and more, people need to see where the C***y boys have headed.


General sub 9 psi boost level rules are:-

Dave Emanuel--Super Tuning and Modifying Holley Carburetors:

In blow-through systems using a mechanical fuel pump, the upper chamber must be referenced to boost so that the pump will develop sufficient pressure to deliver fuel to the carb float bowls. A sealed operating rod is also required so boost pressure does not escape into the crankcase.

The area above the pump diaphragm must be sealed off from the crankcase. By connecting this chamber to boost pressure with an external line, the pump will always be supplying fuel at its normal pressure above boost pressure.

.... you can see the modifications necessary to the mechanical fuel pump. Basically a fitting is threaded or epoxied in this case to the atmospheric vent on the side of the pump. I added two in this case to ensure adequate pump operation at high RPM. The other end of the hose is connected to the bonnet, BEFORE THE CARB, this is required. With this modification fuel pressure to the carb is increased 1 psi for each psi of boost to maintain fuel flow into the carb under boost. This can also be done with a high pressure electric fuel pump and a boost referenced regulator. Also seen here are the turbo oil supplys from the oil sending unit location in the engine block.



Long time turbo 200 Ford Sixers

hasa68mustang
&
kirkallen143

are two guys who have found the mechanical pump idea wanting...like everyone who tries to run over 9 pounds finds...they weighed in on the thread above. They towed the Ak Miller Ford party line, that above 9 psi boost is a bad idea with any mechanical pump.

I don't, tt350 chevelle's system really works, For Fords, we don't have the C**** pocketed fuel pump arrangment. You can use the same scheme if you use a shortened C**** pushrod, and hold it to the cam with a honed intermediate plate.

Here's tt350 chevelle's decription of his SBC carb turbo with Carter Super Strip fuel pump. It allows the pump to be mounted with the diaphram downwards, although if you want to, you can run the pumps either way.

tt350 chevelle wrote:This mod closes off the the drain area and allows proper boost pressure to be seen at the diaphram, the "leaking" boost from the pump seal has no place to go.This worked as I expected but the fuel pressure would rise at a greater rate than 1:1, it was easy to get 20+ psi of fuel pressure (running about 8psi boost)


The solution to boosting well past the 12 psi level safely is to seal and pressurise the fuel pump with a SB Chevy method.

Run the pump off a shortened C**** pushrod, and drive the Carter Super Strip pump via the C**** rocker arm.

They have a 1/2" rod 5.75 or 5.95" long, which operates off a 0.337" max lobe lift.

Image

https://www.theturboforums.com/threads/boost-referenced-mechanical-fuel-pump.314799/

Image

https://www.theturboforums.com/attachments/vavle-jpg.459272/

Image

Fords I6 era pumps had Eccentric total lift of 0.290-0.310 inches. Basically, you add an additional steel plate with a 0.505" hole, and seal the fuel pump off, and use tt350 chevelle's presurised chamber method. Splash lubrication works for the times of lower speed, lower pressure.

The SBC pushrod operated pump has an intermediate plate covering a vented to the crankcase pocket.
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb476/waynep712/chevyfuelpumpinstall_zps7347c8d5.jpg


Inside, the pushrod moves in the cast iron machined bore, with the drain hole below...
http://www.chevydiy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/162.jpg

All the FE era onwards Ford V8 stuff traditionaly had 2.5" eccentrics, with strokes of 0.581 to 0.700 via a pushrod, so they don't work. Nor does the old 0.200" stroke Flathead Ford system.

I haven't worked with them yet, but the SBC Billet Piston fuel pump is pushrod operated, and it looks like the ideal solution


Image

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/rpu-1500/overview/
http://www.competitionplus.com/drag-racing/new-products/2903-powerflow-piston-fuel-pump

Image

Image

Image

I'm not a Nancy, love EFi, but I've seen nothing but in service trouble with Port EFi and retrofit 4bbl EFi systems, both here in New Zealand and, um, here

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?163035-86-0188-(&p=1720151#post1720151


I'm a pretty good techie after a lot of work with computer systems, but the modern era is a lot more ropey...if I'm selling a 12 to 14 pound boost turbo engine, I don't want to be dealing with the same faults we have with aged EECIV wiring, or a system laying idle because its unable to have get a fall back system on line to solve a problem. Those earthing faults, wiring, and system degradations can be spread over the entire car, and its fuel delivery system.

I consider all my carb Fords to have been supperior with respect to carefree day to day running, the newer may rank well within there pears, but definetly not in comparison with there forbears.

The in tank EFi fuel pump, well I can't afford to be Found On/off the Road with a Dead engine, and already its happened with my Nissan, my 98 Explorer XLT, yet my carb 1981 Stang scavanged down to 11.4 gallons of gas with prewarning, my EFi gasoline and Diesel cars are down right dangerous in a one in 5 shoulder just idling. How can modern fuel injection units be so bad at stranding people on gradients and in terms of year to year reliabity, I just don't know...Well I do...its the lack of stillage pots, long life non aerating return lines, and understanding that in an automatic 4 x 4 car on a gradient, running out of gas due to sub-par tank design is just not an option for me, and shouldn't be for anyone else.

I'm just lucky I carry fuel to top up.

Never mind. The engine bay and engine mounted Billet Piston fuel pump is hope for the safety and simplicity conscious like me, I hope.


For the Winsdor and Cleveland and Lima and FE's, I don't really know if there is a boost able mechanical, non electric fuel pump option unless I spend some time transferring the pushrod system over to those engines.
Last edited by xctasy on Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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xctasy
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Re: Turbo a stock 200

Post #9 by xctasy » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:55 am

Exhaust?


You can just use your 68 iron header if its not cracked.

The later B and X code ones don't crack, and are around.


They work because they have good free flow capabilities thast don't hurt torque or back pressure. You cna't kill them.

The 68 era header is pretty much a log head as an exhaust. Same problem as a log head, one small hole evacuating six exhaust ports. The bigger 2-1/8" header tube cast iron is very good, the gia-normus 4-1/4" is better and it has much more area at the discharge point.


The primary light off catalyst was found on 1980 onwards 2.3, 5.0 2-bbl, 3.8 2-bbl and 5.0 4bbl's till about 1985. Ford used it because it didn't want to use feedback carb control, although I'm told some 1980 CA 4.1's might have used a feedback YFA Carter and a primary light off cat. Noramlly, the 4.2's ran a feedback carb on the Foxes, X shell Granadas, Monarchs.

The 3.3 Ford ran it for three years, and so did some of the 1979-1980 X shell Monarchs and Granada's with the L and C code 250 4.1 liter sixes. When tainted with particulates, sure, its restrictive, but its okay and UNRESTRICTIVE if its not. Like my old 81 Stangs. In any case, you just use the manifold and gut the cat. (Cat Gut.....).Catco makes replacements which are far better than a 1/8" mesh like the old kind. Its not something you have to worry about replacing. Its the lack of restriction to the exhaust. Its noramlly a freeby if you can find the Fords and Mercury cars equiped with a 4.1 or 3.3 six with it. Everything 4.1 from 1979 to 1980, everything 3.3 from 1980 to 1983.

derangedfords90 showed how simple it was to make a turbo housing run off it. Backpressure is not what you need in a turbo engine, in any form.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Turbo a stock 200

Post #10 by xctasy » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:09 am

cr_bobcat

Image



and Jhearne have done 2100 Autolite or 2150 Motorcraftcarb swaps which fit where a direct mount 2-bbl Holley 500 4412 goes.


Image

The engine combination with a proper 2-bbl with a log head can still make 205 hp, though. See Crosley's direct mount Falcon modifications. Just a D7 head, some basic milling, and a nice radical 274 cam, which isn't even lumpy on a cast iron intake Ford, they still idle like an old Model T.


http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56639&p=440076#p440076.


Can't do 15 sec ET's at 88mph unless you've got 205 hp.

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ImageImage

See this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjQJ8btRbLY&feature=youtu.be

Do it yourself, and copy it! If you know where your headed, you can do this very cheaply and have a huge amount of fun on the way without too much stress.

Its easy to make 205 hp at 5200 with the stock 3.3 set up when you know how

Crosley wrote:
xctasy wrote:I'll chime in. After all, I've been following this for the last 9 years.


He's got the great Clay Smith 274 hydraulic cam, early adjustable rocker gear with FSP pushrods, worked E0 head with very special handmade alloy plate direct mount 500 cfm 4412 2-bbl, 25 off the block, 50 off the head, stock 5.5 cc cast pistons, cast iron rods, 1978 Fairmont Fox engine, his own special manualised C4 trans, 3.55:1 gears after 4.62:1, then 4.11:1's. Electric water pump. Ignition DS II, with just a few mods. Fairmont accelerator cable with wide open throttle gas pedal positive stop.

2680 pounds, and 25.15" tires. Great header with special handmade collectors.


yur darn close & complete: :wink: Duraspark dizzy triggers an Accel 300+ Digital ignition box & coil. Built in REV limiter set at 6250

Ford power steering pully on the OE alternator from the 1978 Fairmont that slows down the alternator RPM. Pulley only needed some minor trimming for belt alignment. It was one of those things that almost fell onto the car, the pulley swap was so simple.

I have a rollerized gear train for the C4 trans, not installed yet. All thrust washers removed, I machined locations for torrington bearings between the planetarys & ring gears. A lightened sun shell (holes drilled in it).

I also extended the pickup tube in the fuel tank so it sits near the rear of the fuel tank, so the lectric fuel pump can get fuel easily and I can keep the fuel level low (lighter)
Last edited by xctasy on Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Turbo a stock 200

Post #11 by xctasy » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:15 am

viewtopic.php?t=77315

xctasy wrote:
Without an arm swap, 31 bux gets you this.

https://www.carpartkings.com/carter-mec ... m4013.html

Advice is here on your options.

Written By:
Ford Six forum member: hasa68mustang


viewtopic.php?t=73586

The SB GM/ Chevy one could be mated to the Ford lower part if the upper diaphram was shot; but they changed the bolt pattern in 2014...a few years ago.

The cheapest SBC one is 16 bucks, but you'll need to cost out some JB Weld or Quick Weld. For tools, a 1/4" drill bit, a small grinder of some sort (Dremel) with a cutting/grinding wheel, needle nose pliers, a punch, and a hammer. A work bench with a vise would be useful, but it can be done on the floor in your garage. A small block of wood (2x4) might be useful too.

Like this ci/FuelPump.html

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Image

I'd avoid Airtek...not bad mouthing it, just saying that your best bet is a a closer to Carter orginal spec. A working pump is what you need stat, so its personal choice for you if you get the Summit Airtek m4013

The other option.

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/ ... lications/

The SP1000MP can have its arm swapped over with the Ford arm, and will give a good result too. The lines in and out will have to be redone.


I did this with my Small Six Factory Carter, and used the Australian Ford based Carter. Any thing close to that will work fine.

My 81 had a leaking D6DE 6749 AB fuel pump, and as I'm down in New Zealand I couldn't quickly get a US$20 replacement item.

So I just used a spare 1984 Austrailian FPM-000A pre 1982 Bendix made Carter A31223 non bleedback pump.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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xctasy
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Re: Turbo a stock 200

Post #12 by xctasy » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:13 am

Direct mount 2bbl.


The Stanyon 2bbl adaptor

Image
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

thatblue_67stang
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Re: Turbo a stock 200

Post #13 by thatblue_67stang » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:46 pm

i am running a turbo setup on a stock 200. running about 5psi rn and its a blast. turning it up to 10 here in a little bit. dont think to much about it just go for it.
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