Turbo US200 Crossflow

gumby23

Active member
I dropped a crossflow head off at the cylinder head shop for some valve and port work, I guess things are getting serious. I'd like to document the build here with hopes that you guys can help limit missteps and wasted dollars. :beer:


I currently have two 200 engines. One that I acquired a couple years ago with no real knowledge of what I bought, or plan regarding what I wanted to do with it.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=76859
And, a later shortblock with the low mount starter and big bell pattern, supposedly very low mileage. In the deal with the later shortblock I also received an aluminum crossflow head.

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The second deal was really the other way around. I wanted the crossflow head, and came to the realization that the big bell block would be beneficial to the end goals. :idea:
The rough plan at this point is to tear down the forged piston 200, inventory and inspect all components, measure everything, and determine if it is feasible to put the rotating assembly into the later block. My hope is that the later block will have virgin bores, fit to open up as necessary and accommodate the forged internals.

I also purchased a turbo to hang on the side
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HX52
Compressor
Inducer: 66mm
Exducer: 99mm
Turbine - Twin scroll, 16cm, T4 flange
Inducer 84mm
Exducer: 70mm

Gonna need a pretty good head and the right cam to make this turbo happy :nod:

I have done a fair bit of research concerning physically fitting the crossflow head on the US200 block. So far, I have read 328/487 pages of mike1157's Gila Monster build on Stangnet. I have also done some data mining on the AUS forums for general info and expectations. I am a chassis builder, not an engine guy. I am doing my best sponge impression, soaking up as much knowledge as I can put my eyes on.
I know that I am going about the process a bit out of order by attempting to reuse pistons spec'd by someone else for a different build, but I already have them and this snowball is gaining momentum. I am planning to get the forged 200 into position tomorrow for tear-down. Getting a handle on possible compression ratio is important right now. I am also aware that choosing a cam is going to become a very real hurdle fairly soon as the head guy will be interested in things related to such once he gets going.

Is there a cam grinder in the US that understands crossflow, or will I be strictly dealing with Crow, Camtech, or Tighe in AUS?
 
Did you look at the compressor map for the HX52?
You would need to run between 4000 to 8000 rpm to stay in the center of the map.
That means good port work and big cam.

Any less than that the turbo will surge.

You need a 57 mm compressor inducer to make power between 3000 and 6000 rpm.

The HX52 is what is needed to make 600 to 700 hp on a 300 six.
 
pmuller9":3mxa0ri9 said:
Did you look at the compressor map for the HX52?
Good port work, big cam, and lots of RPM are all on the table for this build as well as a paired manifold to take advantage of the split scroll turbine housing.

Do you have the compressor map available to share? I have not been able to find it yet, only the PRO52 which has a different compressor wheel.
 
I used the Borg Warner 66mm map as reference.

What fuel will you be using?

It will be a solid lifter cam because of the rpm.
The camshaft .050" intake duration will be in the 240s.
The lobe separation angle needs to be wide around 114 degrees.

How much valve lift will the head allow with the present set of valves?
 
Hopefully you've read the original article on installing an AU Crossflow head on a 200: ci/XFheadswap.html

Reading mike1157's build is also good in that he installed a turbo on his and you can get an idea on the challenges encountered.
However, he installed the crossflow head on a 250 which has a taller deck (9.469") than the 200 (7.808"); there's not as much room in
the lifter area to install roller lifters, it may be possible.

Does your head have a code between the 1st and 2nd intake port? Something like C1, C2, E1, E2, or no code?
This will give you an idea of the combustion chamber size.
Here's some information I've pulled together about Crossflow Heads:
Cast # Volume Shape
C1 47-49cc kidney
C2 41-42cc closed
D 42cc closed
E1 57cc closed (1mm larger inlet valves)
E2 50cc kidney (1mm larger inlet valves)
XD-XE alloy heads - 57cc
If the head is not off a XD-XE, it will have a letter and number marked inbetween #1 and
#2 cyl of the inlet side.. its clearly marked either C1, C1A, C2, C2A, E1, E2 or D..
If you cant see any casting codes, then it is a XD-XE head

You're going to have to purchase your cam from Australia, which is a good thing in that they know all about Crossflows and can
supply you with the cam you need.

Modern Driveline has a flywheel for the 200 big bell conversion at a decent price:
http://transmission.moderndriveline.com ... 78p459.htm

Hope this helps.
 
To add to your choices if your current block with its rotating assembly is still in good condition you could convert it over to the big bell used on the 6 bolt 289 302 351 V8's using a block plate. One of our site members has the plans and has even made several of them. Good luck on your build (y) :nod:
 
The Xflow head swap article was one of the first bookmarks I made during my research. My head is an E1

At this point, I have no intention of attempting to install traditional linked roller lifters. I would consider the Argentinian method with guide pins, but will more likely go with a flat tappet solid lifter for simplicity.

Target fuel is 93oct pump gas. I will be fuel injected with MS or similar stand alone management.

The red/orange block that contained all the forged parts is in really good shape other than a broken ear at the bell housing mating surface. I am sure I could work around this while using an adapter to fit up the SBF bell pattern but, unless the machine shop tells me no, I would rather stick the good parts in the big bell block and eliminate that layer of adaptation.

I did get the forged engine broken down today. I found flat top pistons, an 0.085" thick copper head gasket, and lots of ARP hardware. The block and copper head gasket have been machined for an o-ring seal
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The pistons measure 0.030" over and have coated skirts. The rods have been polished and fitted for floating wrist pins. They are marked C30E and look quite different from the D8 rods I pulled from the big bell block. Are these the "early" rods I have read are better, forged, units? Curiously with the level of machine work already done, and money spent, there are not ARP bolts in these rods....
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The log head has been freshened as well, and this engine was never started after it was built. I need to pull the crank damper so I can remove the timing cover, double roller timing set, and camshaft.
 
Looks like a well built engine. Yes the C3 rods are the early forged style rods they are the very best in a stock Ford 200 rod, next step up is a set of some better aftermarket rods. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
One of the first areas of concern is the cylinder head valve length.
We ran into this problem with the CI alloy head.
In order to run above 7000 rpm, the valve springs needed for that application require a minimum installed height of 1.700" and you get a much better range of springs if the valve is long enough for a 1.800" installed spring height.
The valves in the CI alloy head were too short so custom valves form Manley were ordered.
Here is some of the discussion.
viewtopic.php?p=601450#p601450

Pete62SOHC got his turbo cam from Camtech in Australia.
If you end up with a similar profile the static compression ratio can be a conservative 9:1.

Pete also used custom valves from Manley.

Call about the cam and find out what valve springs the cam will need and then check the head to see what needs to be done to install the springs.
 
Thank you all for sharing info so far!

Crossflow valve spring installed heights are typically listed at 1.820"

Playing with a static compression calculator, the engine I just disassembled looks like 7.81:1
62cc chamber log head
flat top piston 0.020" in the hole
0.085" thick copper gasket

If I run some more reasonable numbers thru, I get 9.57:1
57cc chamber crossflow head
flat top piston @ zero deck
0.041" gasket

Deshrouding valves will add chamber volume, cutting the head will lower it. Basically with finding flat top pistons in this engine, and having uncut deck and head surfaces to work with, I can go pretty easily anywhere between 9 and 11:1

Calling about a cam is going to be pretty high on the list now, yes. I appreciate the guidance pmuller. Pete's Intech is very inspirational! You seem well read on the subject, and local to me. Could you recommend a machine shop that would tackle the bore/hone/deck on my block and not be scared off by the mods done to widen the head gasket surface? Also installing ARP bolts and resizing the big end of the rods.
:beer:
 
I moved here from Washington state and have been focusing on building a new shop.
I haven't used any of the local machine shops yet so I couldn't give you a recommendation.
What shop did you send the head to?
 
If the red 200 you have was rebuilt without running, then the rod big ends should not need resized just ARP bolts installed.

The 57cc volume for the E1 head is stock, I'm sure the head will need skimmed, so deshrouding the valves will bring the volume back up.
I believe that the stock valves for the crossflow have smaller diameter stems, like the 250 2V head, so you will have to either purchase valve replacements from Australia, or replace the valve guides with US sizes.

You could recoup some of your cost by selling some of the parts you won't be using. The copper head gasket, red 200 block already machined 0.30 over, and the reconditioned E0 head come to mind.
 
The head went to a guy in Owensboro, KY. Friend of a friend, does a lot of one-off race-only stuff, and seemed quite interested in working with a unique piece.
The valves in the crossflow head are 11/32" stem, but we are discussing moving to a smaller stem to save weight. Knowing now that we are working with a flat top piston, he can tailor the deshrouding, valve face shape, and depth of cut on the surface to hit a chosen chamber volume.

I have a couple connections for circle track engine builders by way of my work building chassis, but have not approached them with the idea because it is so far out of the norm for them. I have not used any local shops for my own stuff yet either. The operations needed are fairly routine, but the subject is rather uncommon in a world of v8's!

Recouping dollars from the unused parts of the red engine is definitely a partial motivator for taking good inventory. ;)
 
Scrolling down the WPE website, I am reminded once again how small the racing world is. I am familiar with some of the customers pictured there, mainly the Hoffmans and Brady Bacon. I was not aware of the depth of the WPE portfolio with regards to the different styles of racing they are involved with.

I fired off a couple emails to AUS this evening and received a reply with cam card from Crow

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The 7738 springs are listed on the website as having 350lb rate, but no spec listed for seat pressure at installed height. I am waiting on that reply.
 
The 242* .050" intake duration is close to what I was expecting.
The reduced 232* .050" exhaust duration is good if the engine is using a log type exhaust manifold.
If a long tube header design is being used then the intake and exhaust durations can be close to the same.

The 7738 springs have a 110# seat pressure @ 1.820" and a 350 spring rate.
That is OK for a naturally aspirated engine to 6000 rpm but will not be enough for 8000 rpm under boost.
I would expect a 140# seat pressure and a 400 spring rate minimum.

You would also be looking at 3/8" pushrods.
Does the crossflow head use pushrod guide plates?

What are you looking at for a turbo exhaust manifold?
 
Indeed, the plan is to build a divided log manifold.
The head originally had pedestal rockers. We are converting it to studs and guide plates to run adjustable roller rockers. I told him I want chromoly bodied rockers and 3/8" push rods for stability and durability. We can chase weight in other places.
110# on the seat does seem a bit low. IIRC, my 2.3T is 140 on the seat and 380 open with 0.522" lift. I turn that engine to a 7500rpm limiter.
 
If your low mount block will cleaned up at 3.700, I would suggest a modern thin ring piston and the 1jz rod.
 
If I was starting from scratch there is no doubt I would be specing pistons around the 1jz rod! The whole thought process for this engine started with a good deal on a built engine. It has already evolved mentally thru a log-ectomy and now into a full cylinder head swap/build.
It is very easy for me to allow scope creep to get outta hand, but I gotta draw the line here someplace! I have already picked up some cash work to try and cover the new projected budget.
 
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