Any ideas on carb intake onto 3.9ohc?

fordmuscle83

Well-known member
Id like carb an ohc and put it all into an xf. I know the spacing must be about right but the golt patterns different. Is the best way filling them and new ones drilled in the right place?

Does anyone think i can legally do this running all emission gear and cat?

Pete
 
first off you will supposedly have to meet emission requirements of the XF which depends on the year of your car, if it has a cat (probably not) then legally (WA) you could only ude the weber it came with.
HOWEVER
if your not concerned about the legallity then a intake from early single point EA should bolt on and give you a carby type flange that you can addapt from, these look like some thought has gone into them but I dont know if any carbs will bolt on, its looks close to a weber?
Otherwise make one!
A7M
 
My xf is '85 so that sould make it a bit easier.

The design of the cpi intake is quite bizzare with large turns as seen by the pic xecute had on here. I also know as i have an ea cpi which will be the donar car. The spacing does look very much like the weber would fit straight on but i cant confirm this yet. If it doesnt a small four barrel or 500 holley will be made to fit.


Any idea is a 4 speed single rail will bolt up to 3.9 which currently has a three speed?

Pete
 
Level of difficulty, 8 out of 10 for a me, possibly 5 out of 10 for a technician.

In my opinion, its simply not worth loosing 20 kw, and doing the other mods at all.

The EA electonics are really well sorted out, and the plauge of rough idle issues, and leaking plates on the TBI unit are really easy for a technician to fix. As far as EFI units go, the EA is just childishly simple, and will do you no harm at all. The XG uesd the engine, and the Mutiple Point EFI engine is very strong at about 139 kW, and its a 15.8 second road burner with a 3-satge auto, the optional 3.23:1 diff, and a set of Genie extractors. Mick Webb used to have his autos quicker than stock 5-speed Falcon EA 3.9 S-packs.

Okay, enough preaching.

What you are doing is adding another carb and locking of the throttle body EFI. Then doing a 'fontal labotomy' on the non critical electronics. No different to what Taxi Gas conversions used to do in 88 to 91 on the EA and EAII's, but there are some issues.

Basically, just use the Weber ADM 34 carb from 1986 to 1993 (XF sedans and wagons to 1987, utes from 1986 to 1993). Use the later XG Ute 3-way cat and exhast.

A few screwy things with early cammer Falcoons. If you are using the T5 5-speed, then use the XG Ute spec item, clutch and cable. If you are using the 4-speed BTR LE 65/85, then you need to fit an electronic Throttle Position sensor (TPS), and thats not easy to calibrate because the Weber carb is staged, and the TPS has to be calibrated to suit by a technician, or the shift computer will pull a hissy fit on you.

If it's the last of the BW 3-speeds, you should be sweet as. I think it may not have had a TPS No major issues with this Noahs Ark throwback, as its strong, and needs just the XF kickdown lever. I frankly can't remeber if the last XF's had TPS sensors for the EST. I know they had manifold absolute sensors.


In my opinion, the process is

A) The EA Throttle body injection (TBI) gets removed, but you stick with the EA intake manifold.

B) Rather than mess about with the the clashing bolt patterns, just get a taller 2300 Holley 2-bbl 25 mm alloy spacer available from Redline, and have a machinst mount it to the manifold with the TBI bolts. Then fix a 5 mm alloy plate (free-machining or tooling plate) to the Holley baseplate using the wide based 5 and 5.125" bolt spacings. Then the Weber ADM'S 46 by 93.5 mm bolts go on there with a set of countersunk bolts. So its sort of like a three bolt pattern, two layer sandwhich to get it to fit. Not hard, just needs a little nauce.


C) You add the Weber carb and mate it to the TBI or XF air cleaner. The throttle linkage and intake need to follow XF practice, and the Throttle positon


D) The Weber ADM will work fine. The EST and basic engine systems from the 4.1 will swap over to the EA engine if you really must, but is better to use the stock ignition system from the EA. LPG fitters tend to use the stock EFI/TBI systems, and add a propane carb on these EA engines. Been doing it for years. Better to use the TBI bits, excpet for the carb. If you do that, and set the O2 sensor on open loop, then you should be able to do it.

E) Get a lower pressure electric fuel pump. It will need to be modified to deliver 5 psi to the carb, and then the stock return line and bleed back oriface in the carb will reduce the peak delivery pressure to 3 psi. The early RWD electric Holden Gemini pump should work as a good alternative.


*The whole deal with TBI is that it gives poorer atmomisation that a carb, but is easier to calibrate and control for the emissions. When Ford introduced the EEC computer module in US cars in 1979, it was the end of carbs becasue it allowed easier emission calibration.

One guy on the US forum, who did dynamometer development work on the Central Fuel Injection (CFI, or TBI) 5.0's and 4-BBL HO 5.0's said the CFI had a poor atomisation, while the 4-bbl and especially the multi point EFI were much better. Carby's are therefore not a totally backward step, but you'll loose 20 kw becasue the carb is jetted for the 4.1, not the harder reving 3.9. Stock 4.1's were 97.5 to 103 kW, while the 3.9 TBI was 120 kW
 
the EA was one of fords worst motors.
sorry to say but its true..

if u wanna put something descent in ur XF.. put a newer EFI block in..
EF/EL or even a AU.

here is a photo of what can be done.. u jsut need to find out what mounts and radiator to use.. and go the T5.. auto is for Taxi drivers and Women.

Tickford6-In-XF.jpg
 
And WHAT is wrong with automatics?? Some of us like to be lazy! That is one of the advantages of a big six - it can run an auto no problems! Also, for those of us whose vehicle is only a part-time obsession (eg a family car for mum and the kids) an auto is great - I really only get to drive the old banger on weekends (and the auto and grunty motor is a welcome change from my gutless diesel ute (with 5 speed manual). So there.
 
Just found out last night that the weber bolts straight on the cpi intake. A guy on fordforums has this setup in his xc ute. (no it doesnt, must have had an adapter plate but couldnt see it in the pics)


I know clearance is an issue with steering and pacemakers (not sure about other brands) so will stick with stock headers, cant be to bad with the last of the au xr6's putting out good numbers, not sure if the design was changed?


Where are all the threads on ohc into x series?

Pete
 
fordmuscle83":385q1pej said:
Where are all the threads on ohc into x series?

Pete


Thats a pic of my motor up there, about a week before it was finished. The car is an XD with EL 4.0, T5 and 3.45 XG XR6 LSD.
My next project will be an AU 6 bolt motor into an XE, but I want to go auto next time. Any advice would be appreciated. If I use a 3 spd, I'll probably end up using either a 3.08 or 2.92 diff, but I'd rather use a non-electronic AOD. Any ideas Addo or Dean?
Have a read of this.
http://www.xfalcon.com/index.php?name=P ... pic&t=1886
 
Sorry Pete, I guess you have already seen that thread. :D
I didn't even notice your username before I posted it.
 
Those aod's are looking good as the prices comes down. It would be nice to have one behind a crossflow or ohc witha 3.7 diff.

What engine mounts did you use for your conversion XdEE?

There is so much contradicting crap going about with ohc into xd-e-f.

Cant wait for my hols to get in and learn what does and doesnt work.

Pete
 
I haven't checked it out yet, but I'm preferring to punt on the GM 4-speed auto fitting up with a degree of tweaking. The TH-700 casings weld pretty nicely so I'm thinking why not put a whole new flange on it, to match the Ford block?
 
You didn't read the whole four pages of thread did you Pete? :LOL:
I used XF engine mounts with a bit of modification to suit a) the misaligned bolt holes to the block. and b) the oilfilter casting on the block.
I could have used EA/B/D mounts for the alignment factor, but I still would have to clearance them for the block shape and I had spanking XF ones so I used them. They bolted up directly with the standard base mounts so I'm buggered if I can work out why the bases were changed on XG's.
Adam, have you got anymore info on those trannys. What model were they out of, are they non-electronic etc. Excuse my ignorance but I'm a Ford man.
 
The overdrive auto out of the early '90s Commies. They went to an electronically controlled version during that period of use, but the earlier ones are just a regular slushie with a couple of electronic bits tacked on.

I'm thinking, mill off the whole bellhousing flange, weld on a new one, machine and index. Redrill a flexplate to suit the GM converter. It's a smaller box than the AOD, and lighter. Fairly tough, too. Not a walk in the park, but feasible.
 
You know what. It sounds like a plan. Exactly which model are we talking, VN? VP? They should be able to easy handle about 150 rwkw shouldn't they. But what are the shift points like? Every Commomwhore I've driven has felt like a piece of crap, but thats probably because of their idiot diff ratios and wacky torque curves. What are the "couple of electronic bits tacked on" that you refer to. Is it just speedo transducer or did they still run a cable.
The only other concerns would be the spigot size on the converter but I could turn up any sized bush for that, and the shift linkage positioning and length of levering point. All easily worked around, I know, but I would have to also work out the crankshaft centre position in relation to the 2 bells and try and duplicate it accurately.
 
I think the speedo was a transducer, and the KD may have been electronic. But the shifts otherwise rode on the good old data - competing line pressures, basically.

A question for you: Are there any inbetween ratios from 3 to 3¼ for the BW diffs? Like maybe 3.12 or so?
 
addo":17x3bo6q said:
Are there any inbetween ratios from 3 to 3¼ for the BW diffs? Like maybe 3.12 or so?


Yep.

3.08 in some Holdens from 1985 to 1996, and all 3.9 and 4.0 Falcon EB's from from 1992 to 1994.

It is a smaller diameter, only 193.6 mm (7 5/8"), not 200 mm (7 7/8").


The Commodore SS and S V6 had the 3.08:1 stock, but a 3.27 was a secret option.

As you know, 2.92, 3.23, 3.27 were common options for Fords.
 
Thanks. Looking at a new (used) gearset due to the to-ing and fro-ing in the shorter term.

3.23 it is, then...
renplak.gif


Sorry, just stirring!
 
xdee":2o61qw5i said:
Sorry Pete, I guess you have already seen that thread. :D
I didn't even notice your username before I posted it.

I thought i had read it but skipped quite a bit! Very interesting.

I will pick your brain when i start to get my hands dirty. I bet it will be much easier than taking an auto v6 out of a widebody camry.

Pete
 
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