LSD for 9 bolt Aussie Borg Warner/BTR diff?

i peiced up diffs yesterday....... superoo were the only lace that had a 3.23 open centre ----$80!! --- lsd: $250
besides doin full sick skids does LSD have anyother advantages over open centre?????big price difference between em not sure which way to go

-matt

better cornering

traction

if you've got one wheel on dirt and one wheel on concrete, the LSD will provide some power to the wheel with better traction. It helps if you're trying to pull someone out of a ditch or a stump out of the ground or something..

how many pinions are those diffs? If you're going to give it grief, locate a 4 pinion diff - theyre less likely to pop than a 2 pinion diff..

so in eveyones opinion what would each of you go for???? pay the extra for the lsd???? its also gonna look better the day i sell it..... a young bloke will come for a look and go "oooh LSD, must be good" well thats what i woulda use to say!

-matt

As Disco said, better for traction, plus bag a 4P centre. Shop around, and be sure that the number of splines in the centre match the axles you plan to use.

Was the 'roo part used or reco'd? I would not fit a used one without shimming or fitting new cones inside. Otherwise, it won't last 100 000 k's. Maybe a lot less, in fact.

A 9" is best for resale, but is way overkill for a mild-hot street six. It'll cost up to 2 grand more, as well.

That's my 2¢, anyhow.

Cheers, Adam.

Matt.
I would go for the LSD option for sure.
Are you just changing the centre? or are u getting a whole new diff?
and yer, as Addo said, is it rec'd or 2nd hand?

-Mike

nah it aint reco'd its just second hand, its the who;e diff...... trev (trevs diff place) talked all this mumbo jumbo when i asked if its just the center replaced and said it was a shitload harder and alot more werk can ya tell a 4 pinion from a 2 just by looking at it or does it need to opened up or what??

-matt

Did someone say LSD? No thanks, I've made shure I've never had to give that one up.

Seriously though, unless you need it, don't get it. Focus on getting the four pinion parts, and try and find a 200 mm diameter crown wheel with its matched pinion. My experience has been that fatter feet and proper diff preload is better than sliding out on a wet road at low speeds in the city as LSD's are prone to.

An old XC Falcon I drove for a power utility company had a 3.23:1 four pinion LSD, and it used to lock up on the straightways, and cause strong understeer when hoping into a corner. It was like driving a spooled drag car. Good drivers don't mind the aggressive nature of the cone clutches insde, but I won't :nono: be getting one on my Falcon unless I start doing 14's at the drags.

nah i wasnt after the LSD to pull sick skids....... not that i wasnt considering it though ......... i wanted the different ratio to get the off the line power better suited to what i want...... u know i am 19, all i want is for to go quick off the line lol!!!! if not 3.23 can you suggest anything better?? its for a auto XF mild wrkd 250
cheers
-matt
me need sleeep now, didnt get anylast nite!!!..... dam alcohol and northbridge!hahahahaha

Just how brave are ya, my man? Borg Warner/BTR had the Oz maket cornered for 78 -series diffs. Some were four pinion, some had crushable spacers to set preload.

So long as the housing is compatable you can choose from the following:-

4.11:1 Nissan Pintara (AUS) Had 4 pot engine
3.899:1 Holden Commodore 4 (NZ ONLY)/Some Nissan Skylines(AUS)
3.7:1 Ford Cortina 4 after 1972 and before 1981, Nissan Skylines
3.5:1 Ford, Valiant Utes, Charger E49
3.45:1 Commodore VL on, Falcon XR L6/V8
3.27:1 D option Charger, Commodore VP V6 option
3.23:1 3.3 Falcons, Falcon Utes, Valiants,Centura, P76
3.08:1 EB Falcon, VL on Commodres
2.92:1 Ford, Valiant, Cortina,Centura,P76
2.77:1 Ford,Valiant, Cortina,Centura,P76
2.53:1 Ford 6 (option on XD, XE apparently)

Some of these are 7 5/8", others are 7 7/8". Some changes were made which stops some combo's but I don't know which ones. However, I'd go for 4.11:1 ex Pintara. This will make open road cruising feel like your in second, not top, and will ruin all economy over 85 km/h. If you have tyres 650mm tall unloaded (like a 245/60/14), it will give 29.3 km/h for every 1000rpm. On the open road, 3800 rpm will give 111 km/h. Maximum top spped will be 141 km/h at 4800 rpm. At 60 km/h in first, it will be 200 rpm into the red at 4800 rpm. You'll note the rev limit was 4500 rpm for a 4.1 XF. This means that a Rice Burner will see your nose rise, and the engine scream like a boomber before the rear axle transfers the grunt to the tyres.

If you are running 265/50/14's, this ratio will be far too low, and 3.7:1 Cortina 4 will be better. I think the Cortina 4's had pinions which had a crushable spacer, and you may have to get a crushable spacer fitted to it. The Skyline one should fit too. It will have similar gearing to the 4.11:1 with 600 mm tall tyres. Oh, the speedo will be out, and don't blame me if you get arrested for getting booked Assult With a Deadly Weapon. Six cylinder pistons through the bonnet can kill passers by!

Opinion from the other side of the water:

Special ordered a new Fairlane... in 1969, with the 4-pinion, 9" ring gear, TractionLok LSD rear end(behind the then new 10.7:1c.r. 351" 4bbl V8) to help out in snow, sand & mud. It has done all three, plus pulled 4x4 idiots back on the icy roads(probably shoulda left em in the ditch!), lots of trailers & even fetched a California Highway Patrol car back from the slush/mud. To date it has had 1 change of fluid and zero problems, and it still works! Of course though, it's only been going about 300,000 miles. I'd heartily recommend one if you're running less than 450 hp or 500 lb/ft. Above that power there's special parts available for the 9 incher. Best of success with your ride.

J.R.

geeze xecute you know an awefull lot about diffs!! well everything judging by ur other posts! lol

i think the 4.11 is out of the question.... i drive to and from werk everyday at over 110 usually! hahahah so that probablywouldnt be a great idea fuel wise.... and i did never like making my poor baby (car) scream at me on the way too and from werk (unless smokin the tyres of course!!!!)
oh yeh ive got 225/60/15 im pretty sure theyre 60's var aint here to check, oh well

cheers!!
-matt

The 3.23:1 diff is best then. Mick Webb used it in his SVO EA Falcons, and leters to editor in Wheels mags and Modern Motor articles vouch for it's added urge. Have to get speedo pickup form 5spd XF Falcon 3.3..they had the same diffs. About 30% of all XF production was 3.3, so if it's a five speed, it'll be a 3.23:1 diff. Keep it simple, follow factory guidelines and it'll work fine.

I use 2.77:1 and BW 35 auto in mine. Its an excellent trans if you pay a transmission expert to set up the kickdown cable. I paid 200 ping for a Chrysler Valiant kickdown lever, adjustment and cable when my XE got its 500 Holley throttle body. Other mates can't be bothered following Ford service instructions, and find there trans slips ,wears and stands them up somewhere stupid. My trans is a 230 000km all original, and hasn't busted yet, but they are a known weak point.

I'm bussy fitting the Yanky AOD4 on mine now. This is an FMX-style four-speed ovedrive box, cost 350 bucks from a US engine importer. 302/351Clevos can take this box as a staight bolt up with few modes, but I've had to make up a 9.5 mm adaptor plate to fit it to my spare project six that I'm working on. Apparently it bolts right on to Yank 250's but not our Aussie one. I was pretty hacked off when I found out. When this goes in, I'll fit the 3.7:1 Cortina ring and pinion in it to give it round town punch. On the open road, it'll do 2260 rpm in top at 110 km/h. The swop is difficult 'cause you need a 4.9 F150 six cylinder flywheel, shortend drive shaft, new transmount postions rah rah rah. Easier than using a BTR 4-speed auto though. Electronics and adpation scotched me doing that . It's a nightmare to fit a proper Ford overdrive trans to a pre EA Falcon, so stick with your Borg Warner 40 or C4

Wow, check this out.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/faq-b ... about.html

The old 1966 Borg Warner 78 diff is actually a global item used in both the Ford and GM empire, with a crush spacer or solid spacer for the pinion which is the same as the Ford 8 and 9" and GM Corporate 10 bolt diffs.

I heard back in a 1989 Hot Rod mag that some samller Chevy trucks as well as the F-body had the Aussie BW/BTR diff imported. The Opel Omega and Vauxhall Carlton also used the 3.45:1 centre in Europe versions.

Looks like the 1966 to 1993 25 spline, the later 1994 on wards 28 spline and later 1996 to current utility Hydratrack 31 spline axles found in many Falcons can be fitted with any ring and pinion ratio from 2.54 to 4.11 if you can find the right carrier and axles.

There was talk of some stout 4.56 and 4.88 ratios being made up by one Aussie supplier in 2000. Wonder what came of that?

I remember reading through that, and then g Gerry Lutz a question about his diff. They (Pontiac/Chev) guys pay a lot for stuff we get cheap!

Yeah, your right. I've got two 3.7's, two 3.23's, and two 2.77's. Wanna trade? Maybee you'll be able to sort out the issue over the different crown wheel bolt sizes. The Camaro and Firebird are bound to use the early ring and pinion with the smaller bolt holes surely?

The NZ spec 86-89 2.0 liter VL 6 and 89-91 VN 4 Cyl Commodores got 3.9:1 diffs which were rare options on CSV Commodores. All common as chips here.

The earlier RWD R31 Skyline with a 2.0 four (called the Pintara), got factory 4.11:1 gears, but they only sold about 5 000 before they got replaced by the 2.4 liter FWD Pintara/Ford Corsair.

There were a few 4.00 diffs listed in the old VH Valiant and XR-XW Ford SP manuals which predated Gregories showed that the utes had them as an option. These were clearly BW diffs, not the early Ford and Valiant diffs which had short pinions which would fit in a BW case, but were unable to be tightened up.

I threw out the old centre and gears. Diff is done, excepting repaint. Only took since '97...

Quite all right, adam. Plenty there.

If Ford sold more than 65000 six cylinder cars so equiped per since 1966, then there are 2 million to chose from, not including Valiants, Holdens, P76's Centura, Nissans da da da.

A few tittbits.

The NZ Touring Car and CAMS Future Tourers use a cheaply avialble full floater BTR 78 conversion which can allow up to 2.5 degrees camber, up or downwards in each wheel. The full floaters are there so the axles don't pop out like Eclair Pops when raced. This was a real problem with BTR equiped pre 1993 Group N Fords and Holdens. It was first experienced by D i c k Johnston and Leo Leonard in a NZ B&H race in a 1982 XE Falcon 351. Snapped the 25 spline axles clear through. That was about 350 hp through a 2.92:1 BW 78 diff at Manfield, I think.

There is also the IRS centre used for Holden 93 to 97 IRS Commodres and the AU Fairmont Ghias and VCT XR6's, so one can run the stronger 78 diff centre in Jap cars with IRS.


Oh, and the cheapest gears are the Cortina 4 auto, 3.5:1 is common.

Man, this is great info! Endless potential!

Dont forget the 3.89 in the SWB single wheel transits

Hey X are you saying that the VN came with a 4 pot in NZ, any info??

Ever since 1982 to about 2003, HEC (then GM-Holden) made about 170 000 per year of the Family II 1600, 1800 2000 and then the 2200 cc engines for European Vauxhall and Opels, as well as the Asian Daewoo Royale and the Daewoo made, Opel Kadett based Pontiac LeMans. Yep, Holden was on a massive export drive to servive, and the sucess of the Arab and US export of Lumina and GTO's started back in 1982 when Yank Joe Whitsell made a huge effort to drag Holden into the modern age. BlQQdy top man, as every engine received a governmet tax credit which saved Holden from bankruptcy in 1984.

The Button Plan of 1984 rationalised local grey iron production. The failure of Nissan and Holden to build the RB20 and 30 engines in Australia ment that the very popular NZ market 2.0 VL was going to need a proper Holden engine, and the Aussie made 2.0 Opel Omega/Vauxhall Carlton engine was sent to NZ, and the German Getrag manual or ZF 4-stage auto was added.

It was a great car. All VN's were 65 kilos heavier than the same spec 3.0 VL, but the VN was not much heaveir than the

The old VL 2.0 six used to do 17.5 second quarter miles.

The 82Kw 2.0 Opel engine wasn't that quick, but at 18 .3 seconds with a manual, it'd out do a 3.3 XF Falcon with 2/3rds the capacity, cylinders, and 150 less kilos.

Some of the fools that haven't driven a VN Berlina 2.0 , and consequently "bag it" with the awfull Phase 2 engined VC, VH, and VK 1892 cc engines we got here. You Aussies didn't have a 60% tax on cars over 2.6 litres like we did during the Muldoon/Lange Era, so you bought 4.2's and Brockmobiles. We sold both the fastest VH Commodore, the 300 hp, 14 second locally assembled SS, and the 21 second VH SL/X 1900.

The VN 2.0 Ei gave a very good acount of itself. The factory Holden shop manual has all the details on the NZ market VN. Fleet sales were slow because fuel was cheap, and the unemissionised 3.8 VN's over here had more power than an SV3800, so everyone bought it instead. And if not a Holden 3.8, then our locally assembled 2.0 Twin Cam Coronas by that time were still cheaper, and had were twice the car the Holden Apollo and last narrow body Camry's were. The VN 2.0 was outclassed.

The 2.0 Berlina are still fairly common in the car yard, going for less than 2 grand these days for a reasonable example. The factory 3.9 BW 78 diff used to be pretty cheap at a wreckers, about NZ 150 for the ring and pinion and about 250 for the disc brake rear end, no different to any other BW diff.