2V Flow Results

Over the last few months I have been in the process of doing a 2V head conversion. Things are finally starting to come together, last week I got the head back from the machinist with the following flow results.



I don't think it will let me host the larger image so here is a link:
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_imag ... _large.jpg

Here are some pics of the installation so far..








This last shot is a mock up of the LPG mixer installation.



The head has been CNC port polished by Bullet Cylinder Heads in Adelaide, Australia and fully rebuilt with new Viton seals, guides, hardened valve seats, Crow valve springs and Crane collets and retainers. Classic Inlines parts include SI Portflow 1.75"/1.5" Stainless valves, Yella Terra Roller Rockers, Clay Smith Chrome Moly Pushrods and ARP Head Studs (Thanks Mike!). Chamber volume is around 52cc to yield a compression ratio of ~10.5:1.

It is interesting to see these flow numbers alongside the CI Aluminium head, where the 2V has great intake flow at low to moderate valve lifts, it is overtaken by the stock CI head at around 0.400" and the ported CI head at about 0.350", highlighting its great high lift performance and hence horsepower potential with the correct camshaft design. The greatest improvement of the CI head is the exhaust flow, achieving a much better balance between intake and exhaust flow of 82% against 69% of the 2V (taken at 0.550" lift).

The engine is mostly together now, only needing the intake manifold, fluids and valvetrain adjustment before I can drive it, fingers crossed it will be springing to life in the next 24 hours!

Good on ya Brett. This is exactly what I've been waiting to see - flow numbers of a ported oz head comparable to the CI alloy head.

Keep up the good work mate.

Nice work Brett. Should be a beast

So is she going now?

Yeah its alive now, or at least was alive until it blew a head gasket a few days ago! It didn't go too badly but is still definitely under carbed. Will be using it as an opportunity to fabricate the new twin mixer intake manifold (twin Impco 225 mixers and 50-60mm throttle bodies on tuned length runners, one mixer per three cylinders). If that doesn't wake it up a bit I don't know what will!

And the roller rockers fit under the stock cover? That sucks about the headgasket. Not O ringed I guess? Any chance I could get a look at your setup? I'm running a 250 2V in my XM coupe, and want to set it up for turbo but don't know anyone else with a 2V(?)!

I had to modify the rocker cover to fit. Initially I just doubled up the gaskets but this was messy and wasnt sealing properly, so instead the inside oil baffles were modified to fit (ie with a hammer). No the block hasn't been o ringed yet, that will be done when the supercharger goes on in a year or so. As for the motor, was it specs you were after?

Yes mate, pretty much. All my mates keep telling me to put a V8 in, and I keep vacillating between the two. I really like the concept of the 2V6 though, for 1, it's Oz, 2, the XM never came out with a V8 over here. I was thinking that a Paxton or a Powerdyne would be cool so I could keep the true duals set up.I know a turbo would work, but I hate the sound of the single. I know that sounds dumb, but I am an instrument builder and sound engineer and if I don't like the sound of what I'm driving it sends me nuts. Go figure! Anyways, the other thing I thought of was maybe 2 T25 turbos as something different, but havn't worked out the ins and outs. Nobody really wants to know. It would spool fast though. I'm also running an impco 425. I guess my real issue is that I haven't found anyone I know who is into the 2V and when I mention Turbo or blower to a "professional" they invariably say..what injection are you running? 2V? thats in the BA is it? So there you go, thats where I'm at. I really don't know enough about turbos to choose which turbine A/R and all that, as everyone says something different, so thats where the Paxton/powerdyne idea comes from. I would like to end up with, a daily, something a bit pokey, reliable, and a bit different to all the crate motor dudes.
I'm also running a T5 with 3:00's at the back with a 8 3/4 mustang diff. I don't know the history of my engine, but it has a bit of a cam, and it goes strong, the lifters are f##ked from being in a shed too long I think, and I haven't opened it up yet. But it had dedicated gas on it.

Ok, the current motor bottom end is a 250 crank with 200 rods and 20 thou over ACL pistons (6MKRY9412-020), all balanced and blueprinted. Cam is a Crow 63651 222@050. Flywheel is off an EB Falcon (drill out the holes to the larger size to use) to use their 6 bolt 10" clutch for reliability. Balancer is off an EF Falcon to allow use of a 6 rib serpentine belt, Davies Craig water pump and later model XF-EA alternator with replaced drive pulley (much better than the original belt setup).
Induction is a ported 2V manifold with a Nissan 62mm throttle body, modified Impco 225 and modded GRA B2 converter. A standard 3" pod filter will fit on the front of this.
I am in the process of building a new intake manifold that wraps over the rocker cover with two Impco 225 mixers on individual throttle bodies (one per three cylinders) to see how much power I can get naturally aspirated from the 2V. The old log head with single mixer made 123rwkw so the hope is to crack 160rwkw with the 2V and this setup.

To modify for forced induction, the plan is to use an Eaton M90 from a Holden VT Commodore mounted off the left hand side of the motor on custom bracketry. The XD electronic dizzy will be replaced with a crankshaft trigger wheel and pickup from an EF Falcon, which will be used to drive a Delco ECU (Used here in the VN and later 3.8l V6 Holden Commodores). This computer is easily reprogrammable and will allow a custom timing curve with boost adjustment and also give more room for the supercharger so that the standard length drive snout can be used. The standard pulley on this supercharger uses the same width serpentine belt as the above setup so it should integrate fairly easily. The block will then be O ringed and a thick copper head gasket used to reduce compression to around 8.5:1. The rods will also be prepped and ARP rod bolts and main cap bolts installed, with the possibility of a main stud girdle but this will need some more research. The crank could be replaced with one from an EF Falcon as they have 12 counterweights and with proper preparation, should be stronger than the current unit. Pistons will be a forged type. I believe another forum member is using pistons from a Rover V8 stroker kit, so hopefully I can track those down. On top of this is the usual forced induction stuff like a front mount intercooler, BOV etc.

A setup like this should make 350-400hp on the stock crank and 200 rods(somewhere between 8 and 14psi boost) , but with these items replaced, some extra block strengthening and possibly another cam grind, 450hp or more should be achievable.

Thanks mate. This is exactly the type of local knowledge I need. I had no idea I could upgrade the clutch in that fashion, and the part numbers are a great help. I have a spare 200, it came out of the car before I chucked the 250 in, it was a good runner and a show car back in the 80's, so there may be some parts there, rods etc. I hadn't thought of getting rid of the dizzy, I have the same set up as you I think, XE/D hall effect with the shaft bushed to suit etc. But this is food for thought. I wonder why you want use an M90 though, wouldn't a centrifugal be so much easier? I know they cost more, but what doesn't? Plus, you don't have to make much more than a bracket(?) Not sure about the pulleys etc but I think CAPA do 4.0 kit so they must be available.
Anyway, Thanks heaps for the response, it's more than I expected and I appreciate it. One thing though, I am about to get the exhaust made up and haven't decided who to go to yet. AAA are apparently good, but one of the guys said "split system, on a 6?" the other was exhaust technology on Gouger st, but haven't called them yet. Any one you know good? Also, I read you said you hadn't found a good tuner yet. A friend of mine is one of the State LPG certifiers/trainers at MTA, and he mentioned Road and Track(?)at Enfield to me today in passing as a place they use for dyno tuning LPG, so it might be worth a phone call. I can double check that for you if you like, I will get mine tuned once the exhaust goes on to see where it's at. Then I'll know where this engine is at before I open it up.

Everlast mufflers are good and local. Daryl has done all my Corties for years and isnt as expensive as some of those name exhaust shops in town.

Thanks mate, I'll give them a call. While I'm here though, if I run 200 rods, will i lose cubes? I've been trying to find more info using them and why, and was wondering what perspective you had on using them. I noticed the ACL part# was for pistons using 200 rods, so plenty of people obviously use them.
The other thing is, isnt changing to delco gonna be harder, software wise(Kalmaker) and adaption etc than using megasquirt where you can use free software? I may be wrong but was chatting about it at the pub last night and that was the consensus. Is it out of date info? I looked a MSqirt, cheap as.

stevelkneivel":2mv6bthn said:

Thanks mate, I'll give them a call. While I'm here though, if I run 200 rods, will i lose cubes? I've been trying to find more info using them and why, and was wondering what perspective you had on using them. I noticed the ACL part# was for pistons using 200 rods, so plenty of people obviously use them.

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You won't loose cubes if you use the 200 rods, they are used to increase the rod/stroke ratio for better reving. When the 200 rods are used in a 250, you have to use the ACL pistons that have shorter compression heights so they won't slam into the head. Unfortunately, ACL quit making the cast pistons, so they are getting scarce. They still sell the forged pistons if you're willing to pay $1300/set.

No worries, glad to help! Most of this stuff I learned from the late Dave Adams, previous owner of The Motor Shop and a very cool 9.6 second 250 crossflow powered Cortina! As for the exhaust shop, I would agree with Steve and recommend Darryl at Everlast. I made the mistake of going with someone cheaper to get the twin system done but trust me it has cost me more than double the 150 bucks I saved initially. I intend on going back to Everlast to get the current system replaced later down the track.
In response to your previous question, the reason I was thinking of using the Delco computer is because I know someone who has all of the software to hack them so I can do it cheap Plus if I decide to do down the liquid LPG injection route the Delco has an amazing amount of factory correction maps pre installed that I can make use of for a (hopefully) smoother and more reliable setup.
For the supercharger, I like the instant boost idea of the m90 vs the centrifugal, but you would be right about the plumbing being easier and power levels being higher with the latter. That being said, it appears the mustang 5.0 guys in America can get 300rwkw from an m90, although I somehow doubt this would be in the ideal operating range of the unit!
For the 250 crank 200 rod combo, I would recommend it, I think the engine revs much better than it has any right to! The fact that the log headed version of this engine made 123rwkw naturally aspirated on LPG could be partly due to this.
Thanks for the suggestion about Road and Track too, I might have to drop in there to have a chat once the car is alive again. Good to hear of another Cortina owner around the place too. What colour is yours by the way?

That all makes perfect sense. Every one has a view/info on what has worked for them. I reckon what you are doing sounds great and I think I will go down pretty much the same path with a powerdyne. I had a look a the ACL site and they still list the bowl/200 rod piston for crossflow. Can you use them in the n/xflow? There was one model deleted .. 6MKRY9413 ..
Also, I don't have a Corty anymore. I used to have a buzzy little bronze Mk2, but now I have an XM Falcon 2 door, still a light little(ish) car. Needs a steering rack though! It's 3 tone white at the moment due to repairs.It was a rescue operation as someone had welded the front together like a car bra, removed all bumpers and chrome and welded a flat rear on it with a fin and charger tail lights. And mini tubbed.It has been a labour of love to get back to nearly factory, but I'm nearly there, really just final straightening, panel alignment and paint. If you know anyone who can do it please let me know. I'm in the Thebarton area during the day, so it is ideal if I can things done around town or the suburbs. I may do it all myself, but I want it to look factory or better. It's a daily. I just bought a diff and had it fitted around the corner, because he has a hoist and it was convenient to get towed there, but noticed today it has drifted an inch to the left. grrr.. sometimes you just have to do things yourself to know its done.

a tip re the 200 rods -

if you are thinking the 200 engines fitted to XM,s XP's XR's (ie 1964 to 1968) then its the wrong 200 engine and rod combo

its the rods from the 1971 (approx) onwards 200 and 250 precrossflows and crosflows - ie think XY , XA ,XB ,late cortinas etc 200's and 250's.
in 1971 ford australia made all the 200 /250 blocks the same height - the difference being the longer crank stroke for the 250 . hence the 250 got shorter conrods , whilst the 200's had longer rods (shorter stroke) to fit the same block height.( and yeah crossflow block is different to the precrossflow block - but its the rods we are talking about)

ACl make a pistons ( same bore on the 200 and 250 engines) that has a shorter piston pin to pistion crown height - so using these with a 250 crank and 200 rods gives you a better rod ratio for revs.

if you are turboing / supercharging then you dont need to rev for power so the rods may be a moot point- but its the pistons strength that is an issue then - and the acl FORGED certainly give you that.



its realtively hard to find to later ( 1971 onwards) 200 rods as most people just ditched the 200 engines - but they are out there - just need to search

brett

Thanks Brett,
I have an ARD1DE 2V head and block in the car at the moment. I also have a 70'smildly worked 200 7 main in the shed that thought I would pilfer parts from, rods etc, to be honest, I never even took the rocker cover off it so who knows what it has in it!? Would be nice to find some rollers. I may as well put the rods in if I have them, I would like to do this engine once, so O rings will happen etc. I'm not gonna hammer it (all the time) but I may as well make it as reliable as possible. Theres a lot of info to get through.
Cheers.

200 rods isnt worth it unless your going full on race, like speedway or somethting.
Forced induction makes power everywhere the cam and gearing allows it. So its just like a mild N/A engine woken up.

A flat out race engine will be cammed differently and geared for max power where you need it.
The rod ratio just allows you to make more power longer and unless you drive it at 6-7 grand you just wasted money you couldve spent elsewhere.

Making the engine tuff as nails involves. ARP rod and main cap bolts, forged pistons, floating gudgin pins, machined crank, good crack test/acid bath, everything faced, head studs.
Top end you want anti pump up lifters and roller rockers. Standard valves are fine but you gotta get the seats done and most importantly Blue print and balance anything that rotates. This gives you power gains and puts less stress on moving parts.

OHC rods and crank can be better then the older stuff, but it will cost you in machining.

All the power is in the head but thats the hard part LOL

The rods you have from your 200 seven mains should be fine. Its the five main ones that are no good.
Oh and Xflow pistons are fine for pre Xflow.

Thanks Steve,
I guess I really need to set a budget for the build and work to it as best as possible based on quotes for machining and parts etc. I know it will go over, but as I'm not racing it, things like 200 rods and pistons to suit etc will be what I need to decide about. I have never opened either of the motors I have as I lost my garage to domestic use, but am building another, so that's cool, I will have somewhere to do things. Since I want to use forced induction I reckon all the standard mods are required, balancing, rollers and studs etc... it's just gonna boil down to how much can justify spending when the rest of the car needs interior and paint and panel? Also, I can always pull the motor and change a few thing s down the track if I have prepped it well to start. I just gotta get this exhaust done to start and I'll see where I'm at HP wise.
The other thing I wanted to ask was about machining. Any one in town you guys would recommend?
cheers.