Ford Australias industrial and in line six demise

xctasy

5K+
VIP
I'm re-reporting the lost posts on Ford Australias decision to forgo car making between June 4 and Sun Jun 09, 2013.

Of that, Cool23 said
Cool23":3sk3waje said:
I think the hackers have not liked me posting about Ford Australia ceasing production as every time the forum has been hacked the topic has vanished. :roll:

I was just doing another project, where I found this 23 minute video.plus my fave 280 hp XK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-q45n19XLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QTgb4knAuI


In regards to that, I've reposted my take on the public announcement that Ford Australia is closed its manufacturing facility by 2015 due to uncompetitive costs verses China and other less developed, less expensive manufacturing areas. We've had this scepter hang over us before.

This time, its real.

Back then, I downloaded some pictures from a major right hand drive Peugoet 208 add and paraphrased what it was like for me, having been brought up with Aussie Fords since birth

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/videos/ ... Peugeot-ad

Here is the post again:-


For me, the Ford Australia is the jewel in the Ford Motor Company crown.

Since the advent of the 1934 Ford Coupe Delivery
http://motor.history.sa.gov.au/collecti ... pe-utility
Ford Australia has wrapped conventional US parts into European esque size and esthetic, with generally great results. Okay, some of the six cylinder Cortina's may have been thrown together unloved in factories by jaded Aussies who sometimes delivered Monday and Friday quality to what was reliable stuff in England and Germany, but Aussie cars were subject to revisions needed to cope with the world most appalling roads baring maybee East Africa.

After all, the first Holden Commodores broke in half before there introduction, and German GM Opel Mechanical engineers were disbelieving of the Australian data on the loads a car towing a trailer or boat would receive.


1979GMHoldenAustraliaVS1979GMOpelGermanyRoadRoughnessTestTracks.jpg


IMG_7646-1.jpg


IMG_7650.jpg


LINKEDIN_DEAN_STEVENSON_te_Cortina_roll_angle.jpg


IMG_7648.jpg


Those loads are why World Cars required a total redesign of every larger car until the major Austrailan road work in the 80's, 90's and 00's dragged the two lane plant mix roads into a proper low roughness tapestry. It took 5 years for Ford Australia to fix the 1960 XK Falcons US design structure short coming's, and 10 years for the 1971 TC Cortina to be corrected of its Ford of Europe muck ups. By 1981, the Cortina had its HVAC, suspension, local content and durability issues totally sorted, but it still dropped backlights and had build quality issues untill the Tom Pettigrew and Mercury Capri era forced massive changes. The Pommy Transit and US F100 coped by having beam front axles, the little Escort by being small enough to avoid bending moments which would snap an LTD or Fairlane.

Through it all, the sweetest versions were the XP and XA, XB and XC 'Hardtop' Coupes, but from 1967 to 1981 other X-shell Fords like the wagons, sedans and long wheel base LTD's were exported with Windsor and Cleveland V8's to international acclaim. They got a lot harder to shift the bigger they got. But who can forget the Gone green pano, the immortal Six pack 86 XF 4.1 Pannel Van.

So the demise of the Aussie Ford car is like Ford Australia as the pink race car



and the team that screwed it together for goddness knows who many years is like Penelope Pit Stop....they made gray Detroit slurry look goood.



But there was always the rest of the world, who kinda plays the Dick Darstedly.

Ultimately, the rest of the world can world can plot and scheme like this,



but it always seams to end up in the muck while the Aussies come up trumps. In 1981 to 1985, Ford Australia was the highest financially performing of Fords overseas outposts, probably because of Edsel Ford II's 1977-1981 influence.

But ultimately, the esck up drove is broke down and ditched, and the damsel then goes for the guy with the funny French car.

All the while, muttley sniggers.



I under stand failing sales, just look at this graph, we used to hussle 65000 Falcons a year or more, now its below critical mass at 10000 odd or less




Since break even is a critical share holder issue, this cost /price issue is too real to ignore, and the whole reason that the awesome French Ford Vadette and Ponta Mousson Fords failed in the 50's. Ford axed that French base too early, mainly because, politically, Ford was on the outside of the Charles de Guall area, much like the Mitrand area Chrysler Europe and England was when it sold out to Peugoet in 1979.

Non the less, and without blame, the demise of Ford Australia as a car making base is because of the economics of Americas most favored nation, where health, safety and environmental issues are not costed out yet like they are in Australia. The Aussies need to do what the Germans did in 1980, charge a motza, and export the heck out of there mechanical beasts to the Arab and American quarter, but its all fallen of deaf ears at Dearborn.

The death of Aussie Falcons and small six cylinder based in liners is because the cost price formula is being traded off against the cheapest, most unrealistic, unsustainable labor price, just like the rare earth industry was in 1983 when China set suddenly set the lowest costs for those items, and resulted in California stopping mining. Now, the Chinese stop production, and suddenly the value of opening up mining in the USA is economic again.


Edited: Links updated 7 October 2016, last Day of Ford Oz manufacturing. :thumbdown:
 
Do you want to add to all that now the loss of Holden as well. Holden will shut in 2017. This leaves Australia with Toyota as the last company building cars in Australia.
 
It's all OK we don't need design engineering or manufacturing anymore only marketing matters now! Ask Wall Street! Forget the makers, salute the Traders! What could go wrong???
 
Nashtooth":318373dm said:
It's all OK we don't need design engineering or manufacturing anymore only marketing matters now! Ask Wall Street! Forget the makers, salute the Traders! What could go wrong???

At least Ford still do some design work here and hopefully that will continue past the end date of manufacturing here.
 
We can also add Toyota to the list as they have today stated they will not build cars in Australia after 2017.

From 2017 there will be no major car manufacturer in Australia.
 
Its interesting that the Falcon is the cheapest car for the size any where, and that the Aussie market is unprotected and as free market as any in the world.

The issues with Nissan starting the pull out of Aussie in 1992, Mitsubishi after the press induced failure of the 380 in 2005, and Toyotas stoush with Altona's cost base from 2007 to date culminated in the Ford and Holden announcements. The Aussie market was the first bastion of the Japanese invasion with the around Australia Datsun in 1957, from 1974 to date, the Japanese have lorded over the lions share. The greatest sales have been four cylinder Sigmas and 180B/200B/Bluebirds/Telstar's and Camries and Magnas, the ones that should have succeeded the US based Avalon and Daewoo based Epica and small 2.5/3.0/3.5/3.8 V6 Camries and Magnas were not the successes they should have been. The cross over SUV's, the Territory, were absolutely the right direction, but the whole economics of the Falcon got deep sixed when Ford Dearborn failed to allow the export long wheel base Fairlanes to UAE, Arab and North American countries like Holden does the current Holden Statesman Caprice based Chev Impala Special Pursuit vehicles.

I totally understand Ford USA working in the best interests of its employees and share holders, but proper antipodean rear drive sedans are an exceptionally economic cost base, and Ford moving to front drive 500/Taurus/Explorer frames won't ever make the returns in the Australasian market because we are much more conservative. Our cars are used as SR5/F150's on on ribbon development roads with exceptional roughness, and unsealed traction issues.

Dearborn with the 1960 Falcon and Russelheim with the Opel Rekord/Commodore/Senator B series in 1977 failed to learn the lesson of how damn hard we lean on our cars, we abuse them far more then the average American does because some of our roads and waterway accesses are still so much worse than the Canadian and United States. We tow stuff with unibody cars we really shouldn't. A gargoyle like 96 Taurus, Explorer or F150 isn't as good on our roads as they are in the US, they end up upside down in a ditch because there well engineered engines and transmissions are two steps behind there questionable low slung chassis dynamics. The raising up of the 1996 Explorer and 1997 F150 isn't where Aussies head, they often tone down the trucks, and try to over tire the sedans. The XA/XB and XC Cobra Coupe was fatter around the rump to allow fat tires and Aussie F100 and Bronco were getting too tall for the conservative, non flaunting it Aussie.

Ford have failed to learn the the Saito small wheel arch, front drive, low slung, high overhang and departure cars like the 88 Escort, the 96Taurus, the Probe and now the too wide Taurus and Explorer are just unacceptable to the Aussie consumer. Toyota and Nissan understand this, and make high hip-line front drive cars, and keep throwing darts trying to get a 20, and missing. The 1986 Skyline and Camry/Aurion remain the closest hit, the technically superior Avalon and Magna /380 should have engulfed the Commodore and Falcon entirely, but for one thing...they sucked dead cats for visceral appeal.

Aussies love rear drive cars you can lunch a boat with, a drive up a cement ramp. The 1966, 1972-78 and 1979-1982 and 1988-1997 Falcons were the purest of the breed, and people were happiest when the international Ford style was toned down to suit the conservative Aussie palate. The offset has been really hard charging Mustang or SHO style engine options. When the ballsy 188 hp 302 and 200 hp351 engines weren't replaced with proper performance versions of the anemic 149 and 162 hp 250 engines, the Falcon lost a lot of market share. There were four aftermarket turbo kits, and Ford lost its ability to regenerate market share in 1998 because of what it didn't do in 1982.

The T6, Ranger/Mazda BT50 is the best torch to continue Ford Australia engineering.

The right solution for the cost/price equation is added value export marketing, and its Dearborn who have constantly vetoed progressive Australian Ford CEO's and fired them and sent them packing when there aspirations have seamed Jaguar and Premium Automotive like . When Aussie car were exported to island nations like they were from 1967 to 1981, and again to LHD countries from 1990 to 1996, the Aussies learned to engineer there cars to suit the worlds demands. Aussies are smarter, and can do more with less money, and the cost of screwing them together can be offset by exporting niche Fords to the UK, UAE, Asia and North America.

The precedent is the 1978-2005 Fox body Fords and the South African GM 380/Aussie Commodore as a UC Holden Sunbird and Torana package ...those cars size wise in 2003 to date would have worked in the current market, and Toyota does it with the Camry/Aurion. Toyota's failure to follow through in selling Klugger/Highlander 4 wd under-pinings and performance spec variants of the front drive Camry/Aurion is why they fail to gain market share.

My 2017 Falcon would be a front drive Taurus body shell with a 1982 Supra style nose extension from the A pillar , a rear drive conversion and a low deck in line six in 4.08" bore center 3.5 liter form in gasoline and diesel. A such, it starts looking like a Peugeot 505 on steroids. The engine could be used in 4 and 5 cylinder form in any other international car.
 
All that may be correct but value in the high value at present of the Aussie Dollar and the companies all pulling the pin here have decided they have no future in this country to manufacture cars. So we see Ford leave in 2016 then Holden and Toyota in 2017.
 
All that may be correct but value in the high value at present of the Aussie Dollar and the companies all pulling the pin here have decided they have no future in this country to manufacture cars. So we see Ford leave in 2016 then Holden and Toyota in 2017.



With respect to your undeniable intelligence, those two reasons are total nonsense brother. Once your parts supply and manufacturing go to another country, it will be unreliable, and the quality can no longer be controlled. Whole car divisions, in search of just money, are jeopardized by deciding to trust others. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/ ... 3S20140211.

Same issue when Toyota in the US sought an alternative supply to the Denso accelerator unit for the Camry. In that instance, a whole team of the most clever NASA engineers couldn't find the bug. Outsourcing at contract price creates risk, and it needs to be shepparded only to trustworthy sources. If Ford Dearborn thinks cheaper Asian supply lines for cars is gonna solve its cost problem, its got another thing coming. The past precedent is that only Japan and Korea has really improved quality, and it all stemmed from the awfull electronic goods supply issues of American incited post war production. It required all of Deming's production control disciplines to avert disastrous quality failures, and US incursion on the Chinese way of undercut and bankrupt won't be tolerated. In essence, Ford Australia is on board with the quality price tradeoff, and any other country won't be.


Having a high dollar and no investor confidence was what Germany, Holland and Sweden and England had in 1980, and it was only the Poms who got all messed up about charging extra to customers. As a result, the MGB GT, Midget and SDI/Lynx based Rovers and Triumphs got no extra component development, and the sold them with things like faulty ignition and injection capacitors and leaky Adwest power steering for the 3.5 V8 or in the case of the B and Triump 1500 engines, were just plain scared of shoveling in more dosh to keep customers happy. Just like in 1968, when US legislation ment BMC backed out of proper compenent, crash and emissions developement becuase stupid cigar smoking dingbats couldn't see how they could make money from Austin Healy's. Aversion to costs creates a series of total reliability failures. Jaguar, TVR and Aston Martin and Land Rover and Range Rover raised its prices and got alternative part supply from German suppliers like ZF and Bosch, or oil money and Arab quarter sales. Instead, Daimler Benz, Opel, VW/Audi/Porsche in Germany, Volvo in Holland and Sweden and Saab in Sweeen just co-operated, and raised there prices with better quality, better appointed goods, and the Germans via Bosch, ZF gear and Getrag gained all the production parts capacity, and sold the technology patents off to pay for higher production costs and inflation. All from a very adverse situation. GM and Ford screwed over Vauxhall and Fords Dagenahm plants by outsourcing to Belgian and Cologne plants, then suddenly injected extra capital as they picked up a better deal form the UK Government. That's how companies have to work in the modern era to get a better deal from Governments. They play hard ball to protect there own investments. Dearborn lookes after motor city as best it can, and if there's a short fall, it outsources. Motor city's unionized and negotiated work with its employess ensures people have jobs tomorrow. The Aussies need to do the same.

I remember you saying the same sort of smack about Geelong plant when it looked all hopeless back then. Ford Australia simply got the Federal and Dearborn funding it needed to continue. If Aussies are as smart as I think they are, the Aussies people, Federal Government and Ford at Dearborn will realize the old 800 000 per year Australian car market will have a large percentage of its production capacity will be picked up by China, and others will pick up ages old Holden and Ford components, and then decimate the US industry. Ford Dearborn are effectively stopping the Aussies making unibody gasoline and diesel rear drive cars in the 102 to 116 wheelbase range, and trusting the Asian labor to US dollar parity to yield dividends to Ford worldwide. It won't, because aspects of new supply lines are a greater risk.

When an Aussie uses economic issues like the AU dollar and overseas multinational investor confidence against themselves, they take a musket to there flag by listening to puerile crap fed to you by international companies that are just trying to get a better cost/price tradeoff. This is just what Ford did to Cosworth in 1985 by out sourcing to Yamaha the 60 degree V6 and V8 engines that became the Duratec 6 and V12 engines when it had a need to reduce production and design costs for next generation cars. Suddenly, Cosworth was winning Indycars, Group A and F1, and what does FoMoCo do, but outsource to Yamaha.

The threat of outsourcing is designed to give other Ford divisions world wide a pice of the pie, and have the Aussie population accepting that its all hopeless, and its better to buy Geely's from China. Of course, people from Aussie and New Zealand are frankly a lot more stupid, docile and easily conned than Asians, Germans and Poms were when confronted with this. Recently, the Buy Aussie campaign showed that you guys are at least thinking, but the thinking hasn't gone far enough to Aussies demanding a fair deal from its Federal Government in terms of exporting policy against other countries who don't expense out health, safety, the environment, and worker welfare. PRC looses 1.5% off its GDP each year trying to look after its collective nations political stability because health, safety, the environment, and worker welfare are secondary to self-administration, self-support and self-propagation.

The process Dearborn has undertaken is sort of like what happened to Taiwan when Ford became majority share holder and stopped Toyo Kogyo building engines for the world market Mazdas and Autorama Toyo Kogyo Fords in Taiwan. Imagine if the Japs and Koreans had the same attitude on giving up like you Aussies do, and decided it was all hopeless in 1996 because the US decided to collapse Japanese and Korean investment by playing off those two with PRC and Indian outsourcing. It's called 'getting a better price and saying your gonna walk', and they do it in Middle Eastern bazaars, yiddish kibbutzim, the Eastern block, and in Detroit Michigan. Its called business, and it requires a bit of resolve when the business owners play bodyline tactics. I do it myself.


Each of these two reason's you cited above are not reasons to stop. You Aussies had the same issue with your shipping industry, and you opted out because it was cheaper to give steel to the Koreans. And where is Hyundai now because of it? You have cheap bauxite, iron sands, coal, and expensive but stable shipping connections.

What's required is value added niche marketing. Despite of the UK's total post WW2 financial malaise and production engineering problems, Lotus, Cosworth, Aston Martin, its Tickford Prodrive division, Jaguar and Range Rover, Bentley, Rolls Royce and London Taxis International are foreign owned companies who have turned a busted a$$ English auto industry full of substandard thrown together goods into premium world beaters. You don't build 1.3 million cars a year in a high cost, uncompetitive environment, do you?

Well, yes you do.

I remember back in 1982 everyone said 6 and 5 liter V8's aren't what you use to gain market supremacy...well, from about 1988 to 2008, Holden did, with imported engines, gearboxes, and foreign designed, Aussie re-engineered components. The issue is that its wrong to peg two model lines in the same market, and asset strip sales between same sized cars. Holden bankrupted themselves in 1983 because of the cost implications from the wrong decision to replace 2liter J car fours and V and W big cars with three model lines. If it was Ford, it would have built the Astra in 1600 Family II engine form for export "complemenation" to GM worldwide, and then the Record as the Sunbird, then the Commodore and then the long wheelbase version of the Senator to keep the production lines humming hard out. Remeber, it was Holdens Chuck Chapman and Joe Whitsell who got the Aussie Goverment to help bank roll the export credits scheme to allow the Holden plant to export 1600, 1800 and 2000 and 2200 cc four cylinder Family II engines to the Germans and English, and in so doing, also got PBR brakes and BTR diffs to the Americans in small trucks and F cars. Imagine if the Canadians had the same attitude to you Australians? I'd expect this sort of crap from a Kiwi before an Aussie.

Today, the same stouch that existed between Ford and the Federal Government over the T6 program exists, primarily on cost/price, and who will contribute to getting the project to fly numbers wise. Well, newsflash!, Australia is the best, most stable, and cost effective base to build large cars for rhd markets and the UAE, and some engines for the world market. The cost of screwing them together can be amortized the same way England and Germany have. Right now, the UK makes more cars than Germany.

You Aussies need to stop with the crap fed to you by international companies that are just trying to get a better cost/price tradeoff, and market aggressively Holden EH sized cars which can be SUV'd like the AMC Concorde. The world market which has swapped to unibody front drive cars when full-chassis commercial vehicles like the Hilux SR5 and Ranger are becoming top sellers.
 
So do you have any comments on all those that will have lost a job ? What will they do ?

If you file for bankruptcy today will your government step in and use tax payer money to help you out ? I doubt it. A line was drawn with the car industry.

I wonder what you have to say about SPC ? What do you make of that ? They fear they may have to fold as well yet they are owned by Coke Cola Amatil who are a very wealthy company and could easily afford to set up SPC to do better and even export product.

Oh an by the way I am not your brother. :nono:
 
On another note another company doing very well here at the present and building cars is a small company called TOMCAR. A great product being built in a way very different to the bigger companies. I expect this factory will do well as they have the Aussie spirit and know how to create a specalised vehicle.
 
Cool23":1tpyg62l said:
So do you have any comments on all those that will have lost a job ? What will they do ?

If you file for bankruptcy today will your government step in and use tax payer money to help you out ? I doubt it. A line was drawn with the car industry.

I wonder what you have to say about SPC ? What do you make of that ? They fear they may have to fold as well yet they are owned by Coke Cola Amatil who are a very wealthy company and could easily afford to set up SPC to do better and even export product.

Oh an by the way I am not your brother. :nono:

Job losses, read below. I've got reason to hate Aussies more than any, but I actually understand what its like to run a bussiness. My 120 mates at Toll Rail's Dunedin Hillside workshop got arsed out when a sleep under the bench Chinese firm undercut the price, and you can bet Toll rail weren't interested in up-fitting Hillside. My natural father worked there and Grandfarther Bob was a foremen there, and I had to rip and strip it all and forklift out all the machines to other business, and the Dutch sold off most of the machinery. The Government failed to secure assistance in the tender, and blocked my local engineering buddies despite ardent, focused and inspired work by our union. Then a casting foundry took up the excess capacity, and screwed over the rest.


As for brother quip, Go to Gallipoli, talk to an Aussie Vietnam War veteren. We are the same people. I'd trust you before I'd trust anyone else. Mate. I have Turkish Aussie mates who I'd give the shirt off my back to help, and despite the infractions of creed, race and where you came from, Aussies that gather under the stars of your flag have been sorting out Kiwi interests for years when we can't do it ourselves.

As for bankruptcy, Holden was bankrupt in 1983, and the Botton plan and export credits which the GM H exec team secured saved its butt. Government policy is a defacto handout, and Holden leaked a report to David Robertson to insure assistance. The Zmood JB and VK Holdens were useless shaddows of there former Germanic accuracy, but they got a huge amount of help to survive, and the money they saved was from governemnt inducements to cut down product lines with Nissan/ Family II engine swaps. Same thing would happen if Ford Aussie 'declared'. But it won't, its shadow boxing with an unlistening directorship which doesn't listen care much for weak signals. As my account says, goodwill is intangible, money is the matter. Just like Toyota didn't in the US when it ruined its quality reputations with engineering sign off on defective left hand drive accelerators and Celica timing chains, goodwill is worth something when you don't have it. Honda US didn't make the same stuff up, and Honda Motor Company was two timed by AR, and walked out on Austin Rover when they understood a lack of obedience and covert work to secure BMW support. I'd have dropped AR too..Honda is one of the best companies around. But I believe in Ford Dearborn, but the situation is that Ford Oz has been obedient,. but needs to reinvigorate its product line they way the did with the same Aussie flavor...

Lew Brants 1934 Ford Coupe Utility,
LewBrants1934FordCoupeUtility1863678_f260.jpg


the three years of Aussie Star 56 Ford Customlines,

the Zephyr Ute

the Bill Bourke area of plucky investment.

The XD and EA and especially the Henry Ford II
"V8 is doomed in the Blackwood"
, the non turbo XF and new edge AU which is the whole reason Ford Aussie has suffered so much. No help from Dearborn.

Same applies, and Aussies won't let America down. Your boss is still the boss, even if he's wrong. But Dearborn was wrong not to support an EFI alloy head Cleveland, an EECIV 4.1 Turbo, and AIT EA Turbo, and forcing new edge on the AU Falcon at gunpoint.

It can be conclusively seen that now Ford Australia has been hamstrung by Dearborn's front drive V6 mental block.

It take absolute issue with Ford Oz job losses. They are a result of not being able to make changes to product lines, and job losses would be absolutley nil if Ford Australias CEO's weren't given marching orders everytime they told Dearborn what the consumer needs. Edsel Ford II needs to stand in in the best interests of both Geelong, Broadmedows and that won't hurt Dearborn one bit. Ford has the smartest logistics people on earth, and it needs to understand that what is happening in Australia is happening everywhere...people are looking for more SUV cars, but with smaller dimensions. Its 1960 to 1965 all over again. Something like the Mercury Turnpike cruiser was where Ford thought things were headed in 1958, but the market does change. http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z119 ... uiser.aspx

The big car owners are moving to rear drive Skyline like bases, and the Japs via Nissan have found not everyone wants a V6. The days of 1580 mm wide interior cars still exists, but they aren't supposed to be 4.95 m or 195 inches long anymore unless they are utility or double cabs. And Holdens shift to 3 liter and Sport wagons was the right one, as the market is downsizing to Torana length but wider cars. In fact, I'd say the original XK Falcon length and width is where the market is heading, with enough room for two child seats and one adult.

The market needs rear drive model consolidation, diesel engines based on Ford Geelong Six, and the T6, Territory and Falcon need to have common base engineering to replace what was lost when the long wheel base wagons and Fairlane's and LTD's were ditched. That sha99ed the economics of the Falcon, and downsizing should have happened in 2008 after the 5 years of sedan and wagon model decline, but Dearborn said no to anything else but Focus and Mondeo. Go to the middle east, Canada and GTO circles. Despite the oddness of a high hipline car that looks like a too tall Pontiac, they love Holden based rear drivers, yet Ford Australia got no help selling off a competent well organized chassis overseas. On low polished stone value precoat chip, a Mustang won't generate the G's a Falcon can, and ill-informed reporters form the US don't understand the depth of Ford Australia's chassis ability.

I've seen http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/co ... 6815348036.

Comments like
This would be another 'Holden' - pump taxpayer dollars in for no real gain and only delaying the inevitable.
shows you that a lot of Aussies are unable to see that the company Holden has value. The reality is that a Holden Toyota Altezza sized would trump sales in ways it couldn't with the SunNerd and Torana Banana in 1979. Its button plan all over again, making certain Aussie makers sell in volume what customers want. It's time for the Governemnt to say, look, if we ran a bussiness down, our tax payers would lynch us, what the heck are you doing here. If its HS&E, then its a tax against business, but not mismanagement.

You picked the wrong person to talk to, as I grew up working for bulk drink distribution with Lane Thompson and then Oasis industries in 1985, and they went bankrupt after the 87 Kiwi recession. I know what job loss is when you've got kids to feed. The supply lines for that company then got owned by others, Coca Cola because it had critical mass. I drive a truck for Coke Cola Amatil in Dunedin on Thursdays through my work as an AWF Labourer, have done so for four years, and have been involved in logistics for 29 years. Fact is, Aussies need to drink, and there is everything around from other suppliers and CCA, including non sugar, non caffine stuff for everyone, and SPC Ardmona looks after HS&E matters, and its that which is the cost of doing business. I won't back down on the fact that a company acts in interest of its share price, but also has to consider who will take up the slack if they ditch there Aussie out post.

You guys are lucky, 23 million people have buying power, and a buy Aussie campaign would scare the crap out of anyone trying to sell foreign goods in Australia. Its really funny how my Kiwi counterparts get scared when Aussie talk buying Aussie. I've been laid off when the money is hard for a company, and the true Aussie spirit is actuially not just get stuck in and have a go, but talk about it, then act. In that way, Aussies are far smarter than Kiwis, and you guys need to stop looking at exclusive Aussie owned companies, but sussing out ways to grow wealth for people with a few dollars. Thats the measure, share holder value, and Ford Australia has proven it again and again, and needs to have another chance.

Fords Australian workers are responsible, active and hardworking, and Ford Australia clearly has been prevented from exporting by Ford in favour of Asian outsourcing. That's not fair play when Aussies can do it better than the Asians.


Ford Australia's model mix was messed up when Ford Dearborn went front drive and v6 exclusive...Aussie won't buy front drivers, and it will buy a smaller Mondeo sized rwd, and the Ranger will become the next tradie vehicle like the F150 did in the states, and the SR5/Hilux does here in NZ.

News Flash,Ford Dearborn, didn't the XK Falcon, TC Cortina and front drive Taurus teach you anything about the Australian spirit, and Australian motoring needs. I doubt it.
 
I can see many faults in what you have written so I'll just stick to a couple as I am not here for an argument with you.

The name is Lew Bandt. Did you know we are lucky enough to have that Ute here in Castlemaine now. A mate has it stored safely yet on show to the public and looking after it for the BANDT family. It came here after Ford shut the discovery centre in Geelong. Many guessed something was wrong when that place shut.

I see you are not a true investor as you have not responded to what I said about SPC and the relation they have with Coke Cola Amatil. Ford, GMH & Toyota are all wealthy companies based in the US and Japan yet they wanted Aussie tax payers dollars to fund them. Coke Cola Amatil now want similar funding for SPC when they already have all they need to set up export without support.

As I said not here for an argument. Australia has lost Ford, Holden and Toyota as manufacturers now and what this means is we will no longer manufacture cars or mass produce cars in this country.

Imported cars will change the way this country does many things in the future. I am sure that will also mean many changes in New Zealand as well.

Tarriffs may or may not change and even recently I have seen GT Rhino Fairmonts making an appearance at events. Yes the GT Falcon was rebadged in South Africa as Fairmont and the Super Roo logo replaced with a Rhino.

How about all these changes and how will they affect say a vehicle built for the disabled, as an Ambulance or a Taxi ?

Another point you have not seen is how many workers at Ford, Holden and Toyota went to work every day in an imported vehicle ?

By the way I am the last person you will see in a Hyundai.

As for it being made in China and you mentioned a firm that was shut well I have been to China and I can see why the workers can do it for $3-00 an hour. They have no safety gear no hearing protection and often work barefoot. Any ones job can be outsourced to another country if the company can save more and spend less. We as workers in Aust have rights just as you do in NZ. Chinese workers have no protection.
 
All companies want incentives, and tell you they'll pack up and get the low hanging fruit else-ware. Rio Tinto wants to pull out of Tiwa point at Bluff and stop smelting bauxite for Australia, and it threatens the Government here. It's called economics. http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/04/tiwai_point-2.html

The point I made is that China doesn't cost out HS&E, as there is none to speak of, so any short fall in the general ledger for Ford, Toyota, Holden or CCA in Aussie is as a result of higher costs in those three segments, which cannot be amortized. That's why multinationals ask for money.

Pretty simple. Its time to do the Merv Hughes sledge. If you want cheaper production costs and not to pay, the Fat controller has to collect the tickets some place else. You won't be selling 65000 Falcons this year, and 65000 units is a minimum for break even, so let us sell something that makes the volume. Ford saw this in 1981, when it saw the next Falcon as a front drive LWB Telstar. The fact that China is reselling Rover 75's as the switchabe to rear drive MG 6 should be a clue.


The Government funded T6 is doing it, and the American populace is perplexed as to why Ford doesn't offer it in the US. http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/tru ... rst_drive/

If the 126.8 wheel base was cut, and the basic parts used elseware like Ford did in the 60's, smaller segment cars could be serviced from the same production tooling and get the volume back up. An IRS with 112" wheel base 5 dr wagon and 3dr wagon on 105" wheelbase would be killer Territory replacement, and that short wheelbase be the form-work for a cut-down Falcon sedan. Since the side impact crash rules, cars have been getting wider and much longer. This isn't a Leyland p82 style dream its economics and sales.

The Mondeo is now Falcon sized
 
Well if that is going to work every one has to take a wage cut and including NZ. Grin and bear the rising cost of living and hope like hell they survive.

My original posts that got deleted during the forum attack was about the loss of what this forum is about the inline six.
 
That is what's happening, its getting harder to live and make a living everywhere. I want Aussie Inline sixes, and there is a road map to make that happen, and Dearborn are able to make it a reality.

Meantime, get ready for someone to make there own iron inline sixes, because Ford US has opted out of helping Australia
 
The Inline six is dead. Ford will not make them again.

SPC cried hard enough and got some money. If they fold in 5 years they have to pay back in full.

I wonder if you have ever looked at the Tariffs ? India has 100% for example so an Imported car would be very expensive. Makes it hard to build a car in Australia and export it when every country is so different. Importing a car from Australia to Japan for example would be a joke yet when we buy goods from Japan it is not an equal playing field. Yet the tariff to bring a car from Japan here is very different. Free Trade is nothing like it and a load of crap.

That is what killed off the Motor Industry here.
 
xctasy":2eu6n548 said:
Meantime, get ready for someone to make there own iron inline sixes, because Ford US has opted out of helping Australia

Do you expect Ford will just say "OK yes copy our Engines we no longer make them so you can" ?
I doubt it. Ford will have that legally tied up or the hoops with (the legalities :banghead: ) you will have to go through to build a copy of that engine will be great. If it was worth doing some one like Rare Spares may be able to do it but would there be a market for it with out improvements ? :unsure:

Unless you have them built in China :LOL: and that sort of defeats the purpose :cry: .
 
The whole thing is BS, the governments of past and present has made it very hard for Australian manufacturing. The imports, what Australia has failed to do is its failure to let other developing nations stand on there own to feet, imported fruit and veg when we have a rich futile country, export our best meats overseas, import crap back, i mean i cant even drink milk now, its crap. We had the lucky country, now its the unlucky country where the laws have you wound up tighter than a fishs bunghole, you quite simply cant do anything, its so complicated in red tape and this and that by the powers that be, who make and change laws with no legal argument or public scrutiny. Its quite simply gone, and now our beloved car heritage is all but completely in the toilet and these wowsers offer stupid assistance packages etc, well the answer was always in front of there face. If you can dictate farty fairy fun police laws and wrap ya self in 5 layers of red tape then dictate what we need to import and export, keep what we grow, sustain our selfs on a business model that makes it all fair. Only export whats left over, we have lost our way and the incredible cost of tooling up for the future generations is gone, when we had it in the first place, tall poppy syndrome for sure.
 
Cool23":1oc96i6t said:
Do you expect Ford will just say "OK yes copy our Engines we no longer make them so you can" ?
I doubt it. Ford will have that legally tied up or the hoops with (the legalities :banghead: ) you will have to go through to build a copy of that engine will be great. If it was worth doing some one like Rare Spares may be able to do it but would there be a market for it with out improvements ? :unsure:

Unless you have them built in China :LOL: and that sort of defeats the purpose :cry: .

Companies already make aftermarket blocks, heads, and cranks for engines without Ford coming down on them (Dart comes to mind).
A lot of the pieces are even superior to what Ford produced; of course, you get what you pay for.

I doubt if anyone will ever recast the parts necessary to reproduce the great inline sixes you guys down south have. Sad :(
 
rocklord":33le959w said:
Companies already make aftermarket blocks, heads, and cranks for engines without Ford coming down on them (Dart comes to mind).
A lot of the pieces are even superior to what Ford produced; of course, you get what you pay for.

I doubt if anyone will ever recast the parts necessary to reproduce the great inline sixes you guys down south have. Sad :(

We have seen Ford get very protective of product here in the last few years and I guess that would also be very obvious in the USA. Licensing requirements are required for many things.
 
Back
Top