Other odd Aussie inlines

MustangSix

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Gentlemen,

My more recent car projects have led me to another odd family of inline sixes that were made or sold in Oz. They were different engines but with common origins in the 4 cylinder B-series Austin.

What can anyone tell me of the inlines found in the Austin Farina and the Wolseley 24/80? 2.4 liter? Bore? stroke?

Also, there seemed to be a Nissan derivative of this engine called the J20 found in the mid-60's Nissan Cedric. This one is a 2 liter with a short stoke and tiny bore.

Are any of these engines still to be found in Oz? Is there any parts support for them?
 
Nothing directly for Datsun, but the Wolseley 24/80 is British Motor Corporation (Australia) car from 1962 to 1965, and a wheelbase an inch longer than the Austin Freeway, Wolseley 15/60, Wolseley 16/60. It was powered by a six-cylinder version of the 1622 cc B series engine, known as the "Blue Streak" straight-6 with a capacity of 2433 cc. It's just a Bseries 1622 cc engine with two more cylinders, while the BMC C-Series was a straight-6 automobile engine produced from 1956 to 1971. The B series six only lasted from 1962 to 1965




Unlike the Austin designed B-series engine, the C series came from the Morris engines drawing office in Coventry. Displacement were the 2,639 cc 77x89 mm
(1954-1959 Wolseley 6/90,1954-1959 Austin Westminster A90/A95/A105,1955-1958 Morris Isis,1958-1959 Riley Two-Point-Six,1956-1959 Austin-Healey 100-6), the 2,912 cc, 83.36x88.9 mm. Four bearing crankshaft.(1959-1968 Austin Westminster A99/A110, 1959-1968 Wolseley 6/99 and 6/110, 1959-1964 Vanden Plas Princess 3-Litre, 1959-1967 Austin-Healey 3000) and the 2,912 cc, 83.36x88.9 mm. Seven bearing crankshaft. (1967-1971 Austin 3-Litre ,1968-1970 MGC)

The Austin A55 Cambridge, Austin A60 Cambridge, MG Magnette Mk. III, Morris Oxford V, Riley 4/68 and Di Tella 1500 was the same base as the Wolseley 24/80, with the inch shorter wheelbase, and 1489 or 1622 four cylinder engines.

The 1622cc and 1798 cc was a pretty common early B-series fitment till 1969, then we went to the poorly executed, but basically sound 1485 and 1748 cc OHC E4 from the Maxi and Nomad 1968 to 1975. The early 210 and 410 Datsun Bluebirds in Australia ran an A or B series cast off.

Austin/Morris/Leyland I6's from Australia

Austin was number one selling before Holden took over when they could finally make enough of The Right Honorable Ben Chifley's 132.5 cubic inch 48 215 FX Holdens. The Holden engine had 3.75" bore spacing's like the early British Vauxhall Velox engines, with four bearing cranks and some parts of the water cooling system as near as dammit interchangeable. So the 1948 to 1966 Vaxhall I4 till the 1967 OHC and 1156/1256 cc Opel era and Velox I6's to 1961 had very similar blocks Holden's six port 132.5 and 138 Grey motors

The Morris Isis, Oxford and Major were pretty good old humps to cruise around Australia in. They were locally assembled with a high proportion of B series and C series engine parts. Then the Alec Issigonis era pushed for the Morris Mini and 1100/1300 and the 1800 and Maxi based engineering "deep sixed" the old rear drive cars by 1965. The front drive worked for the Bathurst winning Mini and they liked but not very strong 1100/1300, but not the E-series engined Morris 1300/1500/Nomad.

The borderline successful 120 inch wheelbase 1800 wasn't powerful enough, and the local engineers weren't able to get British backing to get a power steered Rover 3500 engine hooked up to the Borg Warner 35 transverse front drive gearbox. So the 1800 and Freeway lost market share yearly.

Later, the final Front drive push was the locally made version of the Pommy Austin Maxi based E series five bearing Four and seven bearing six in two sizes. It was made as a B series 4 cylinder replacement engine, creating the Tasmin and 2227 and 2622 cc Kimbery. The Morris Marina even got this engine in 2622 cc form, making the 17 second quarter-mile 3 door hatch Marinas scare the undies off Leyland Marina buyers who were able to tick the right options. The Leyalnd P76 had early Spencer King SD1 unibody body engineering with similar IFS and steering, but was a failure commercially, and the P82 with its 3.3 V6 version of the Leyland 268 cube version of the Buick Olds Pontiac Rover based 215 never saw the light of day.

The E6 had some major issues, but its technically interesting and able to take the loads, which is why modern E4 versions, the chain cam R series and belt cam S series version of it was used in the Ferrari carbed twin Weber DCNF MG Maestro in 1983 to the early 1984, although the 1598 cc single throttle version lasted till 1995

http://www.shannons.com.au/club/enthusi ... bo/photos/
http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/facts-a ... -s-series/



Prince/240K/Skyline/Holden VL sixes in Australia

After the Datsun 210 took Agent K's team to 1st and 4th class wins in the 1958 MobilGas Round Australia trial race in 1958, the Japanese realized that the first export market to crack was Australia!

http://on.aol.com/video/nissan-datsun-2 ... -517236538

It was that renegade Christian's crazy penchant for understanding markets which made the 510, 240Z and Box Skyline what they were, and they became icons to the soul of Nissan.

Katayama-.jpg

MrK_35pic.jpg


http://www.zonc.org/katayama.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutaka_Katayama

And at 104 years old, he still alive, and the reason for Nissan's survival, despite being about as popular as a Pork Pie at a Yiddish wedding inside Nissan itself. And that is typical of the unsung endeavors of these early Japanese Engineers, they were looked at as traitors as they had imbibed the spirituality and soul of the west, yet made it a Japanese institution. He will live on eternally as the "thousand word" picture man, who could sell 40 thousand 510's in its inaugural year by just music and a few images on a Television commercial.


As a kid, we had heaps of those old rear drive ohv Princes around. They ran hard despite there totally pedestrian looks. The Prince engines were not that amazing, but with Nissan's acquisition of the financially floundering but technically rich Prince company in 1966, it was genesis that gave the Nissan Cedric and Skyline and S20 four valve per cylinder Fairlady the most technically advanced engineering. You could see where it all started when the 5 speed ZF gearbox, Banjo axled, Limited slip diffed, 26 US gallon fuel tanked, triple Weber carbed I6 OHV Princes had good Aussie sales, although they were a bit 'weird' with Rover P6 style engineering and consequently, P6 style costs. Under Nissan, the Japanese perpetuated the NEC idea that its very bad for business to be sublet, wound up, and ultimately lost, but that business must be eternal. They raced well at Philip Island and Bathurst, and the typically random 'Japanesy' recirculating ball steering couldn't hide the sharpness of the chassis, carburation, and engineering. The Hakosuka spirit was right there in 1964, and by 1992, it took out Australian Group A motor racing by taking the Bathurst Mountain in the James Hardie 1000 with 400 pounds of pig iron handicap unable to stop its success. The Nissan Skyline GTR is what Holdens XU1 GTR should have become.

http://www.classiccar.co.nz/articles/19 ... ance-06-yb

The Aussie Princes are around, but not in big numbers. The Prince design team lead the fight to great caburattion and typcially great production engineering. They dragged Datsun engines away from direct copies of BMC A and B series, to become much better A10, 11,12,13, 14 and 15 engines of the commercially successful sedans and pickups and even the front drive Cherry and 1500 4x4. The Nissan Bluebird hybridized Mercedeas six and BMW Four cylinder engieering into Kent Ford bore spacings on the L series OHC fours, and in the Cedric and Gloria by Nissan, made wider bore spacing L OHC in the sixes with the same conrod stamping, bearing and cam gear parts. The Japanese were working the tooling with Shogun sword perfection, each engine optimized without a desire to make the 4 and 6 cylinder L series OHC engines cookie cutters on the cheap.


The L24 was imported in the locally imported Datsun 240K, imported in the locally sold Skylines from 1981 to 1984 and then in RB30 form, imported as the Holden Commodore VL and locally made Nissan Skyline from 1985 to 1992. The New Zealand market Holdens got RB20's
 
Several very important things. Lets filter out three things.

FIrstly, the twin carb 1966 Cedric 130 1998 cc L20A was the first L series OHC six. http://www.earlydatsun.com/nissan130mk1.html

nissanl20.jpg



No B-series four or six cylinder ancestry. It has become the venerable L24, L26, L28, LD28 diesel, and, after the massive belt driven 1985 revamp, the RB20, RB24, RB26, RB30, and not as bullet proof RD28 diesel. All with the same bore spacings. It was a Yamaha Motor designed and Nissan built engine with no Prince input, as it was designed pre 1966. Nissans absorbing of Prince actually created three Nissan six cylinder lines, the L, the B series based J20 or so called G series Nissan, and the big bore spacing Prince Skyline engine which gave birth to the 1966 R380 and then the production S20 twin cam four valve per cylinder engine used in Twin Cam Fairlady Z's and Box Skylines.

Secondly, the B series was made by Nissan with increasing Japanese alterations as there own J series engine from 1953 to early 80's, the last big version as a J18 four cylinder made in Mexico.
29408610007_large.jpg



The J20 six cylinder was only made till about 1969.
130history68e.jpg


Its very important to note that the B serie engine was designed for a fully jacketed 2.875" bore cylinder 3 bearing engine by BMC. Mated to its low mount camshaft position. It was limited to getting any extra capacity out of the block by its 3.5" stoke engine block. The engine size vaiants of the Nissans 78 mm block expansion was as a result of the metrication, and then the use of the siamese bore the Australians and then British did to create the 1622 and then the 1798 cc engine. The roll out of the 295 thou under Nash Metropolitan engine, the 95 and 125 and 285 thou over engines were mated to the 3.5" stroke. Exceptions were the 252 thou over 1762 Twin Cam engines

It was the Australians who siamesed the B-series casting to take 3" pistons to make the 1489 the 1622 engine, three years before the British did it. The Nissan team did the same thing with there B series, which made the 1973 cc six cylinder engine a loosely Blue Streak related engine.

As for the Nissan J series engine, it was a four cylinder B series knock off just like the A series Nissan was an A series "mowog" offshoot. The J20 was a two cylinder extra J13 with an over bore to 78 mm. Its not Prince OHV/OHC/DOHC G series related, but the 1973 cc six was called the J20 by Nissan. Its just a B series offshoot.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_J_engine

And Paydirt. the biggest four cylinder wasn''t a J20.

See http://community.ratsun.net/topic/17405 ... 800-j1600/
http://community.ratsun.net/topic/17405 ... 600/page-2
http://community.ratsun.net/topic/17405 ... 600/page-3

Thirdly, the six cylinder small bore six in OHV form was an Aussie articulation of an invention from a 1959 Austin designed I6, copied in part by the Japanese in metricated, siamese bore configuration as the J20

See http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/cars/mg ... -c-series/


As an example of the weird stuff the product development lads got up to all over BMC, look at this!

The Wide Body Freeway. The Robot Hic-up idea of just adding width and length as pioneered by Mitsubishi Australia with the the front drive Sigma Eterna based Magna in 1985 with 3" added in the center, and the wide body Camry in 1992, and lastly, the perfected process of by the drawn, hung and quartered Avalon , was actually a British idea.

Adding an extra couple of cylinders was chicken feed in comparison

http://www.bluestreaksix.com/history.htm
 
Great info, deano!

I would love to get hold of a blue streak or a j20. It would absolutely confound the MG crowd if I were to put onr in my MGB GT!
 
MustangSix":2nkh7dah said:
Great info, deano!

I would love to get hold of a blue streak or a j20. It would absolutely confound the MG crowd if I were to put onr in my MGB GT!


OHV 6 Cylinder
Model - J20
Capacity - 1973cc
Bore & Stroke 76x78.6mm
Power - 109bhp@4800rpm
Torque- 118ft/lb@3600
Compression - 8.3 : 1
Carburettor - Hitachi dual throat down draught

The technical um, bs info is wrong :nod: .
A 1973 cc six would have had a fully water jacketed J13 engines 73 mm bore by 78.6 mm stroke to make about 1973 cc, or a 76 by 72.5 mm stroke, but certainly not a 76 by 78.6 mm bore/stroke.


As for the Blue Streak engine, its just a case of putting out the feelers.
ydr9_engine_view_1.jpg


They made about 2200 a year for 3 years, so its not unlikely there aren't some blocks or whole cars under a tree somewhere that haven't suffered from a billibong wet...Since you service to the I-6 community has been so significant, you can just ask at http://www.amvcnsw.com.au/sales.html, and intimate you desire for a whole engine. Its not like you'd have to part anything out to get one, since there is bound to be a member on the forum who has exactly what you require.


See also https://sites.google.com/site/wolseleyc ... e/for-sale
1965 Mark II 24/80: Type: YWBS2, Car number: 2158, Engine number: 24Y/A/2474, Laguna Beige, automatic, 91,027 miles. Parts vehicle. $300.

Contact: Sandra Veness 02 6227 2127 (leave a message if I'm not in and I'll call back)

The J20 engine might be a heck of a lot easier, as they were exported and they are loved, as the Japanese six cylinder makert has always been very strong, more so than the West realizes.

The four cylinder R16, H16, H20 and diesel four and six cylinder SD's and the four cylinder U20 was all shared the same bore spacings, making the U20 an H20 but with an SOHC cylinder head designed by Prince. It was used only in the Datsun Fairlady SR311S. That is the first clue to how Nissan outsourced designs to Austin, Yamaha, Prince and Minsei Diesel Industries, even before the Prince merger.

So as long as you can determine what engine Nissan engine family is via the internet, http://zhome.com/History/LSeries/LSeriesR1.htm

there are still Cedrics around in Japan that will have the whole engine. My mate from the Caravan Center in Dunedin goes over to Japan, and he assures me they still keep the old stuff, but the majority is scrapped.


In a roundabout way, the B series was really a Vauxhall i4 derivative, so the engine the Bluestreak and J20 became is really just a 12 port Vauxhall or Holden 138...it embodies similar Chevrolet Light Car right hand camshaft technology that the 48 215 ran in 1947. The bore spacings are the same nominal 3.75" but with a center pitch which resulted in the need for siamesing. Vauxhall before the deep short stroke skirt engine in 1955 used to run engines this way. Afterwards, it was a linear bore spacing engine like the first Holden 132.5 was.
 
Well, if a Blue Streak ever ends up in my lap, I have something to put it in. I don't think it would take much to put it over the 150 hp mark which would make it more powerful than the 3.5 Rover V8 they used. The one thing about the six is that the siamese intakes aren't going to have the charge robbing effect that you find on the four. The intake events don't overlap at all. I could easily make up an exhaust that groups 123-456 together.

I could splice together two MGB intakes for triple SU's. Cam regrinds for a little more lift and duration are easy. Bump the CR to about 9.5:1 and I think it's there. Maybe just a little port work. Move the radiator forward a bit. The same hoses should fit.

The block plate, starter, and flywheel probably directly swap over, as well as the MGB transmission.

The only fabrication I can see would be the engine mounts, but at least those would be in the same location.

It would be so easy to build a phantom Aussie MGC prototype.
 
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