250 2V Spring Pressure?

Moderator: Mod Squad

madmaxmarchhare
Registered User
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:28 pm

250 2V Spring Pressure?

Post #1 by madmaxmarchhare » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:08 pm

Ok, all.. the 250 2V is in the shop and they've taken care of just about everything.. but they want to know what kind of spring pressure I need? I dunno.. does someone know? Thanks, in advance.

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 8244
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 250 2V Spring Pressure?

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:06 pm

It can depend on the camshaft you plan to use! This will then tell you the closed and open spring pressure needed for best performance and also what the installed spring height should be set at. If it's going to be a mild build using a stock cam than the Hi Performance 289 or 302 valve springs will work well. Make sure you check that you have enough clearance between the valve guide and retainer at full lift, and that there is enough spring coil clearance at max valve lift too. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
rocklord
Registered User
Posts: 1254
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:25 pm
Location: Hurricane, WV

Re: 250 2V Spring Pressure?

Post #3 by rocklord » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:48 pm

Use the springs that are recommended for a US 250 head/cam combo.

They are basically the same head, but one of them has a removable intake.
Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
1961 Corvair Lakewood wagon, 145CID, 80HP, 2Spd Powerglide Auto.
2017 BMW X3, 3.0L Dual Turbo, 300HP, 8-Spd Auto

madmaxmarchhare
Registered User
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:28 pm

Re: 250 2V Spring Pressure?

Post #4 by madmaxmarchhare » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:42 am

rocklord wrote:Use the springs that are recommended for a US 250 head/cam combo.

They are basically the same head, but one of them has a removable intake.


I ordered them from Vintage Inlines, so they should be good to go, but my machinist wants to know, anyhow.. does anyone have a number? Maybe for stock setup or a mild cam?

User avatar
xctasy
VIP Member
Posts: 6561
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:40 am
Location: PO Box 7072 Dunedin 9011,South Island, NEW ZEALAND
Contact:

Re: 250 2V Spring Pressure?

Post #5 by xctasy » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:08 am

1.standard springs from a 289 Ford (part number C6A-6513-A, article scanned wrong; Spring pressure worked out at 90 pounds [valve closed] and 190 pounds [open])
2.valve retainers from a 1962 260 Ford (part number C20Z-65I4-A)

http://www.cometcentral.com/tech/h2/index.html

Ak Miller HRM July 1967, Horsing Around with the Mustang Six II wrote:
Image

We used the valve retainers from a 1962 260 Ford (part number C20Z-65I4--A, 12¢ each). We also used the standard springs from a 289 Ford (part number B6A-6513-A, 43¢ each). Multiplying these prices by the six cylinder, you can see what we mean by a reasonable price for springs and retainers...all from your friendly Ford dealer.
Spring pressure worked out at 90 pounds (valve closed) and 190 pounds open. Having installed the cam and springs, we observed a 5 horsepower increase. However, we were running the engine at 4500 rpm. Then we noticed a favorable by-product of the change; we were now able to rev the little six up to 5500 rpm with no hydraulic pump-up. At the same time we put the cam in,

Image

A cam change and Honda carburetion (plus a few other tricks) bring the six-cylinder galloper into the mid 80's and low 16's

Image

we also installed pushrods (part number CODE-6565-B) and adjustable rockers (part number CODZ-6564-A) from earlier Falcon engines. They are of the same ratio, but gave us a handy method of adjusting pushrod lengths when changing cams, I would certainly recommend this change-over
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

madmaxmarchhare
Registered User
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:28 pm

Re: 250 2V Spring Pressure?

Post #6 by madmaxmarchhare » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:58 pm

Ok.. looks good.. I'll pass that information on..

BTW.. out of gross curiosity... is it a relatively simple/straightforward things to change a camshaft without pulling anything else (other than the timing cover, obviously)? If it is, I might put a somewhat more aggressive cam in there..

User avatar
rocklord
Registered User
Posts: 1254
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:25 pm
Location: Hurricane, WV

Re: 250 2V Spring Pressure?

Post #7 by rocklord » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:57 am

madmaxmarchhare wrote:Ok.. looks good.. I'll pass that information on..

BTW.. out of gross curiosity... is it a relatively simple/straightforward things to change a camshaft without pulling anything else (other than the timing cover, obviously)? If it is, I might put a somewhat more aggressive cam in there..


You need remove the rocker arms, pull the pushrods, and remove the lifters before installing a cam.
The lifters will interfere with the cam installation, possibly damaging it.
Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
1961 Corvair Lakewood wagon, 145CID, 80HP, 2Spd Powerglide Auto.
2017 BMW X3, 3.0L Dual Turbo, 300HP, 8-Spd Auto

madmaxmarchhare
Registered User
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:28 pm

Re: 250 2V Spring Pressure?

Post #8 by madmaxmarchhare » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:08 am

rocklord wrote:
madmaxmarchhare wrote:Ok.. looks good.. I'll pass that information on..

BTW.. out of gross curiosity... is it a relatively simple/straightforward things to change a camshaft without pulling anything else (other than the timing cover, obviously)? If it is, I might put a somewhat more aggressive cam in there..


You need remove the rocker arms, pull the pushrods, and remove the lifters before installing a cam.
The lifters will interfere with the cam installation, possibly damaging it.


I'm doing a head swap right now... so most of that stuff will be out except for the lifters.. after that, just.. err.. "carefully" pull the old one out from the front and put the new one in?

Any recos for an appropriate fun/interesting/mild-ish street build for a manual transmission and where I can keep the same lifters/pushrods?

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 8244
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 250 2V Spring Pressure?

Post #9 by bubba22349 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:51 am

:bang: You for sure won't be able to keep your current lifters with a different cam! The lifters wear to the camshaft lobes they are used on (during its break in) and to be able to reuse a "used lifter" again it must go back on the exact same cam lobe or it will damage the camshaft. With a new or different camshaft you will need a new set of lifters too! There are lots of cam chooses but you will need to give a bit more info on your cars total combo of parts i.e. Type Trans (Manual) check, also the rear gear ratio, rest of your engine mods, and your planed type of use, etc. with that info we can narrow it down so that you get you the right camshaft. Good luck
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

madmaxmarchhare
Registered User
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:28 pm

Re: 250 2V Spring Pressure?

Post #10 by madmaxmarchhare » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:11 pm

bubba22349 wrote::bang: You for sure won't be able to keep your current lifters with a different cam! The lifters wear to the camshaft lobes they are used on (during its break in) and to be able to reuse a "used lifter" again it must go back on the exact same cam lobe or it will damage the camshaft. With a new or different camshaft you will need a new set of lifters too! There are lots of cam chooses but you will need to give a bit more info on your cars total combo of parts i.e. Type Trans (Manual) check, also the rear gear ratio, rest of your engine mods, and your planed type of use, etc. with that info we can narrow it down so that you get you the right camshaft. Good luck


Ok.. so new lifters I will get--check

As far as the other stuff, I have a modified 250 2V head that now uses 1.75 intake valves that will go through a 38/38 carby. The rear gear ratio is whatever was standard with the Falcon XA with 3-speed column shift.. it's weak.. I want the car to have longer legs than it does.. The front will either be with this Supra 5-speed I have sitting around that was on a Falcon in Australia or I'll get a T5 here (so, yes, I have a U.S. 250 block to mate with either of those.. I'll use the Supra 5-speed if it mates properly). I just want the car to be "fun" and have somewhat longer legs than it does now.. I'm not going to drag it or chase down the Night Rider with it.. that's what Pursuit Specials are for..

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 8244
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 250 2V Spring Pressure?

Post #11 by bubba22349 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:19 am

Ok the 5 speed swap will be a great improvement in drivability! You can use a cam with an advertised duration of 256 to 274. If you are planing on keeping the rear gear ratio stock I would probally stay away from the 274 and limit it to a 264 duration / 110 degree, or if you want it to be more towards Economy (gas milage) limit to the 256. The 264 should wake it up and be a fun ride and extend its legs too. There are lots of cam companies that offer with cams in the 256 to 264 range some are Comp Cams, Isky, Crow, Clay Smith, Schneider. Depending on your location some of them maybe closer to you, and some companies will also grind you a custom cam grind to fit your combo if you call them, Schneider is one and Clay Smith also. Good luck :thumbup:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

madmaxmarchhare
Registered User
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:28 pm

Re: 250 2V Spring Pressure?

Post #12 by madmaxmarchhare » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:06 pm

bubba22349 wrote:Ok the 5 speed swap will be a great improvement in drivability! You can use a cam with an advertised duration of 256 to 274. If you are planing on keeping the rear gear ratio stock I would probally stay away from the 274 and limit it to a 264 duration / 110 degree, or if you want it to be more towards Economy (gas milage) limit to the 256. The 264 should wake it up and be a fun ride and extend its legs too. There are lots of cam companies that offer with cams in the 256 to 264 range some are Comp Cams, Isky, Crow, Clay Smith, Schneider. Depending on your location some of them maybe closer to you, and some companies will also grind you a custom cam grind to fit your combo if you call them, Schneider is one and Clay Smith also. Good luck :thumbup:


That all sounds good to me! I'll let everyone know what I do when this is all done..

So.. just to be sure.. pull the lifters, and I should be able just to grab the thing by the front (not the P#$#@) and slide the camshaft outta there?

drag-200stang
Registered User
Posts: 923
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:10 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: 250 2V Spring Pressure?

Post #13 by drag-200stang » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:15 am

madmaxmarchhare wrote:
bubba22349 wrote:Ok the 5 speed swap will be a great improvement in drivability! You can use a cam with an advertised duration of 256 to 274. If you are planing on keeping the rear gear ratio stock I would probally stay away from the 274 and limit it to a 264 duration / 110 degree, or if you want it to be more towards Economy (gas milage) limit to the 256. The 264 should wake it up and be a fun ride and extend its legs too. There are lots of cam companies that offer with cams in the 256 to 264 range some are Comp Cams, Isky, Crow, Clay Smith, Schneider. Depending on your location some of them maybe closer to you, and some companies will also grind you a custom cam grind to fit your combo if you call them, Schneider is one and Clay Smith also. Good luck :thumbup:


That all sounds good to me! I'll let everyone know what I do when this is all done..

So.. just to be sure.. pull the lifters, and I should be able just to grab the thing by the front (not the P#$#@) and slide the camshaft outta there?

Screw a long 7/16" coarse bolt in and use as a handle...The cam will hit the rods if the crank is not turned just right...There is a post that tells where a member had good luck at, can not remember where... Just rotate the crank easy back and forth and retract cam.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

drag-200stang
Registered User
Posts: 923
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:10 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: 250 2V Spring Pressure?

Post #14 by drag-200stang » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:31 am

Remember to remove the cam spacer behind the pin.it will not come on the new cam...The spacer is mostly unattainable, save the pin too but the pin can be bought...Also the inside bevel of the spacer toward the cam journal when reinstalling it.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

drag-200stang
Registered User
Posts: 923
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:10 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: 250 2V Spring Pressure?

Post #15 by drag-200stang » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:44 am

drag-200stang wrote:
madmaxmarchhare wrote:
bubba22349 wrote:Ok the 5 speed swap will be a great improvement in drivability! You can use a cam with an advertised duration of 256 to 274. If you are planing on keeping the rear gear ratio stock I would probally stay away from the 274 and limit it to a 264 duration / 110 degree, or if you want it to be more towards Economy (gas milage) limit to the 256. The 264 should wake it up and be a fun ride and extend its legs too. There are lots of cam companies that offer with cams in the 256 to 264 range some are Comp Cams, Isky, Crow, Clay Smith, Schneider. Depending on your location some of them maybe closer to you, and some companies will also grind you a custom cam grind to fit your combo if you call them, Schneider is one and Clay Smith also. Good luck :thumbup:


That all sounds good to me! I'll let everyone know what I do when this is all done..

So.. just to be sure.. pull the lifters, and I should be able just to grab the thing by the front (not the P#$#@) and slide the camshaft outta there?

Screw a long 7/16" coarse bolt in and use as a handle...The cam will hit the rods if the crank is not turned just right...There is a post that tells where a member had good luck at, can not remember where... Just rotate the crank easy back and forth and retract cam.

I just realized that you are using a 250 and not a 200, the interference may not bad as a 200 but now you will know to watch for it.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests