Updated: 500cfm Holleys on stock XE/XF Cross-flow intake

xctasy

5K+
VIP
To the last four blokes or ladies or whatever who wanted info on the 500 cfm to Weber ADM 34 XE/XF manifold swap, well, sorry, I've been piddling about.

Depression from loosing the World Cup Rugby, perhaps. Sorry, no excuse.

Here's what I've been telling them:

My dual fuel LPG/Petrol Falcon XE 4.1 was a real slug when I got it. Changing to the better sole fuel Impco carb and the manifold alterations made the biggest difference I've ever felt on a stock engine. It already had the better Heatseaker cam, but with stock carb and a restrictive Landi-Hartog mixer, it was such a dog. The good air cleaner and headers were things that made another leap forward.

The fuel economy and power improved, and my wife just loved the awesome low-end torque. Compared to my friends pertol EFI XE Fairmont Ghia auto, it was about 2 seconds faster over the quarter, and much nicer on the open road.

Here's a post I gave last night to another dude wanting info on the Holley 500cfm swap. Still getting my crap together, hang in there...


The 2300 to 5200 Redline adaptor is #1890, from memory, about 43 dollars in NZ in 1997. It just a big alloy plate. You grab a stock nylon ADM 34 carby spacer, and drill the alloy Redline adaptor to the Weber 93.5 by 46 mm spacings. These get four counter sunk screws bolted to the intake (you have to double nut and remove the stock ones first). Then you get some alloy platem, and make 3 plates about 100 deap, by 20 mm thick, and around 165 mm long.

You drill these to the same stud pattern as the manifolds for groups of cylinders 1/2, 3/4, and 5/6. This allows you to fit the auto choke on the stock manifold without hitting the rocker cover. Once this is done, you must use stock manifold to head bolts, but 20 mm longer. The middle ones for 3/4 cylinders are longer than the outer bolts. You'll need to bend the dipstick holder straight, to clear the intake manifold once its been shifted out. There is enough room to take the dizzy cap off, no worries there.

There is another very important step. The number 3 cylinder intake port has a bolt boss which can touch the Holley adaptor. I just filled it down 2 mm, and added two counter sunk bolts on the rocker cover side of the carb. You end up with four counter sunk screws on the top of the adaptor, to mount to the Weber manifold, and two on the manifold side, pointing up, to allow for space for the manifold bolts. The manifold gets bolted on, then the adaptor.

Then mount up the manifold, and carb. Use a Valiant Hemi 245/265 throttle bracket if you are using a BW auto, or any kind of spring loaded type. You need to have an additional return spring to ensure the Holley carb goes right back to kerb idle. The cable needs to be a custom Truck cable, with a very smooth inner, or the throttle will be too heavy. It must have the later style spring on the end, not the Valiant calmped end. I just had the bracket hooked on the two passenger side bolts beside the spring tower, and made a bracket to hold the Chrysler item.

Length is approx 1.38 to 1.435 m, and use the Valiant VH bushes to clamp the cable to the firewall, on the prongs that are used to hold the air conditioning evaporator line.

The kickdown cable is a bit of work...just a Valiant auto kickdown cable.

If you don't got one, you don't got a problem!

The stock EGR, the stock emmisions and vacum ports, no need for the anti-dieselling solenoid but you may want to use the electric choke link. Depends on what your 500 4412 part number carb comes with.

The intake can use a little radius work to allow the manifold to breath better right under the carb. The 500 Holley is about 3 to 6mm bigger in platform than the 34 ADM.

The aircleaner can be a Ryco a391, a stock Impco/Dodge 318 truck number. Its about 259 by 76mm, with a 188mm centre. It huge, flows meduim well. It's size is the key to performance. Anything smaller, even a K&N, will restrict the engine. That should fit, but do be carefull there is enough clearnace. There is only 185 mm from the manifold to the roof of the bonnet. No slam tactics

In terms of power, no contest. The 500 is a bull-terrier, not a little Italian Mouse.

Hope this helps. I'd personally buy reco'd. The jets should be about 70 with an 8.5 power valve. That will give about 160 hp for a start. Then jet up to either 71, 72, 73 or 74. If its got a good, sound basic engine tune, cam, header, ignition and compression, 175 hp is a dead certainty. There is bulk extra power to come from a perfect cam choice. The stock head has very small ports but perfect profiles, and the cam is vital to make it flow up to its potential. Dick Johnston says 196 hp. I'd say 220 with a perfect cam producing power reving to 4800 to a 5400 rpm peak. There's much more if you do some modificaions to the bottom end and rocker gear, but I'm going overboard again.

Love Ford sixes, something I can afford to thrash!
 
Out of interest, for someone considering a straight gas setup, with low to midrange torque, power up to 4000-5000, would you reccomend the 500cfm Holley 2bbl intake setup, or would the XE-XF EFI intake plus GRA throttlebody be a better torque spinner?
 
I don't know. I'd say they are even pegged.

I think that the GRA as a single carb on an EFI manifold will have the edge in all situations, except on lift off (of the gas pedal). Then the dyno operater will tune it for less advance, giving less performance. GRA mixers use a Century-style converter, which is much more sensitive to small gas flow changes, without becoming unstable. The GRA boys have said that for years.


The Impco CA 300 is rather too sensitive to small changes in signal from the intake runners, and on a wilder set up, may even loose some drivability. On the other hand, with a carby intake, there is little chance of a lean backfire...it never happened with my LP Gas set-up, despite advice from two long-time gas experts that it would. The result was I was able to use a totally stock carb 4.1 XE ignition set-up, with 9 Deg static advance, and the stock vaccum set up on a 500 Holley throttle body.

But I've never driven an EFI GRA set-up. There is so much old Impco stuff here in Kiwi land, I'd never consider it.

Here is the info on my LPG 500 Holley swap

Some Pickies on the LPG swap to my old XE Falcon

<<<<Cold starts not a problem with LPG ImpcoCA300 to Holley 500 on X-flow 250 Weber carby manifold setup.

<<<<The basic LPG adaptor pieces and how it all fits together


<<<< Impco CA 300. In my opinion, the best American gas carby ever made!


<<<< Ariel view of my LPG carb adaptor

<<<<< This is the Racer Walsh adaptor piece. It is a gem. All X-flows should be #2300 or 2150 Motorcraft from factory in my opinion!

<<<<< David Vizards ideas on how to bolt a Holley 500 to a Holley Weber equiped Pinto 2000. This is where I got all my ideas from!


<<<<<A list of what is needed and what it does.

<<<<This was what I gave my machinist Kent to drill up. The counter sunk bolts have to allow the adaptor to fit the manifold and bolt up without fouling the intake manilfold.


<<<< Schematic makes the alloy adaptor look like a big nut on a Holley throttle body. Sizes in the demon mm. Lovely French units to confuse!


<<<<More patterns for the Holley to Impco to Weber 34 ADM manifold mix.


<<<<Yet more patterns for the Holley to Impco to Weber 34 ADM manifold mix.

<<<<The Holley #2300 carb the way Holley intended it to be assembled

<<<<The patern of the alloy adaptor to fit the Holley throttle body.

<<<<The finished weired looking monkey. What the heck is that is a common question. Dunno, but it sure works good!

<<<<<Any Falcon X-flow loves tubing headers. Try for a set of them rather than the stock cast header. It's not dreadfull, but its designed for noise suppression rather than power. There is little extra noise from tubing headers if the rest of the exhast system is stock.
 
Interesting. I'd say there is more chance of a backfire too, since there'd be a litre or two more volume in the EFI intake setup. But it wouldnt be as destructive as a lean backfire that also goes through the plastic intake pipe also on EFI Fords, with LPG mixers placed inside the airbox.

I made the comment, because I'm seriously considering going straight gas on the van (89 XF). All I really want to do to achieve this is to fit a gas-only throttlebody on an intake of some description, and to get my XD alloy head dizzy regraphed and reconditioned.. right now I'm weighing up my options. I was thinking the EFI intake was a better route to travel, since its got way-long runners, and it builds up vacuum really good in the plenum, making for an excellent 2000-4000 rev range..

Anything would be better for post-3500rpm power production than the baby 34/34 Weber, though..
 
Anything would be better for post-3500rpm power production than the baby 34/34 Weber, though..

Agreed. It is a very good carb which doesn't have enough meat in the casting to become as good as a 500 Holley. It is otherwise one of the best in the business. If it was 350 vs ADM34 or 32/36, I'd go Italia!

Comes down to cost. I love the 500 throttle body and conversion. It is fun, and the adaptor I got made up for the CA 300 Impco worked amazingly well. When you partner gets out of the car with an ear to ear grin from the performance, you know somethings going right!
 
XECUTE & others.

The weber to holley adapter for xc-xe is part number #10-230. If you quote #1890 they come bacnk and tell you its an airfilter adapter!

I am using a 2 barrel to BLANK adapter (#10-234) and you have to drill the holes yourself. There doesnt seem to be one around for the 500 holley to weber.


You will pay about $40 for them.

Pete
 
Okay guys. The existing vaccum hoses to the 34 ADM Weber seem to really hack people off! The Holley will take the fittings, but you need to know what each ciruit does beore it gets bolted up. The are best left on the car. Don't mearly assume emissions gear is an Evil Smog Nazi kill-joy, as you'll end up with it running worse without it.

I've got some data here which show you what the existing set-up is for a New South Wales Emissions per 1986 XF Falcon without Air Con.

There are a few systesm to note, and I'd much rather you all read through the Gregories #226 Shop Manual on XF Falcons from 1984 to March 1993. Pages 248 to 256, and the shop data from 76, 88 and 89. The book is first rate, and explains each circuit in detail. A must have!

Below are the systems for your benifit, lovingly copied by my own hands. It's untidy, but I'll get it sorted sometime.

Please note. The stock Weber 34 ADM carb has a blead back return line to ensure the carb doesn't get any more than 3.5psi (24 kPa) of pressure. All Ford Carter fuel pumps produce about 7 psi (52 kPa) or pressure. Use the pre alloy head fuel pump, as there is no need for bleadback. Holleys don't have blead back systesms.


<<<<This is a Non Air Con NSW pre unleaded 1986 Emmission ciruit diagram. Note:

1. the PVS (Ported Vaccum Switch)

2. the Delay Valve ( NSW emission gear, colored according to application)

3. the Sustain Valve

4. the Vacuum /Vacuum switch

5. the PCV valve (Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve)

6. the VPV (Vapour Purge control valve for Evaporative emissions which controls the burn off of the charcoal canisters hydrocarbons.

7. the Vacuum amplifier

8. the EGR valve (Exhast gas recirculation)

These systems are vital, and the emissions reduction is simply huge with these fitted. Without the evaporative emissions, the car will polute more than 35% more hydrocarbons into the atmosphere.


<<<< Table of color coded Emmissions gear. All this allows you to choose the correct replacement part. If its defective, it will cost performance and economy. If it works, it will warm up and operate the way Ford Oz intended. Million dollar investments shouldn't be scapped because we are too lazy to give a sh!+ about emissions.

<<<<< Carby jetting for the stock ADM. There are four basic types of pre unleaded ADM carbs, plus later unleaded carbs. The unleaded ones are in brackets. It's rough, but will get tidied up sometime soon I hope.

<<<<<Evaporative emissions, EGR and VPV workings

<<< The Spark Sustain system, a lovely NSW inclusion.
 
the last thing left for me to do on my car is rewire the egr, vaccum lines, dizzy, and the confusing lpg stuff

gotta get cracking on it... i want to change the convertor over, to what extent should i do it myself and to what extent do you reckon i should tow it to the lpg guys

what you reckon xecute?

cheers,
 
Are you a NSW dweller? If so, read Gregories#226 book on XF Falcons. The emissions gear should be totally stock. If it's auto or manual, a/c, 3.3, 4.1, or NSW model with the additional smog gear, leave it there! The emissions gear loses only 3% maximum power while helping warm up and reducing smog.

The 500 cfm Holley carb can get a vaccum hose added to the float bowl like this,

http://www.kastang.net/pictures/65musta ... olley3.jpg



or as an easier option, the Centra/Sigma fuel filter with the emissions hose to take care of the hydrocarbons.


More details soon!
 
well actually im running lpg so i dont need the emission gear and a redline torker manifold

is it a big job to get all this on?
 
Peice of cake...if you have the Impco service bulletin!

I'll post a copy. It's 1984, so I hope there is a 20 year statute of limitations on Impco gear copyright, or I'll end up with my a$$ sued out of existence!
 
Back
Top