Why the straight-six engine is making a comeback

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rocklord
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Why the straight-six engine is making a comeback

Post #1 by rocklord » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:37 am

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/vi ... icles_yr_1

If only this was true, and Ford would take notice.
Dan

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Re: Why the straight-six engine is making a comeback

Post #2 by Crosley » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:43 am

I think it is mostly about packaging the length of the inline 6. With daily driver cars in the USA as FWD platform.

GM's inline 6 engine 4200 series was not well received as I recall.
Tony in AZ...

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Re: Why the straight-six engine is making a comeback

Post #3 by old jupiter » Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:55 pm

The article didn't mention one more disadvantage of any V-6 (60 or 90 degree) or V-8, that of making a good exhaust system, or that this IS another advantage of inline sixes.

As for "packaging," Chrysler's Slant Six answered this factor long ago. Low hood line is no problem. And with intake and exhaust on the same side, a nice compact turbocharger plus EFI is a natural: plenty of power out of a lightweight, compact, cheaper-to-build (single head) engine configuration. You say the I-6 is too long for front-drive cars? I say front-drive cars are an abomination (having had to work on too many of them).

Why didn't they just ask us??

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Re: Why the straight-six engine is making a comeback

Post #4 by STEVEN. » Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:40 pm

Like the Artist's Drawing @ the head of the Article :wink: . The Inline Six is truly a gift from Heaven....along with Rich & Leo :o :mrgreen: . OO6.

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Re: Why the straight-six engine is making a comeback

Post #5 by woodbutcher » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:10 pm

:D :shock: Hi Steven.Thanks.Merry Christmas to you and yours,from me and mine.And to the entire FordSix family.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo
"People never lie so much as after a hunt,during a war,or before an election".
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Re: Why the straight-six engine is making a comeback

Post #6 by bubba22349 » Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:41 am

:shock: Merry Christmas Leo, Rich, Steven, and all the rest of you Ford Sixers too! :beer: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Why the straight-six engine is making a comeback

Post #7 by xctasy » Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:22 pm

Hairy Ex Mas team!


rocklord wrote:http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/videos/a8645/the-enginerdy-dept-straight-six-revival/?mag=roa&click=c1_article_articles_yr_1

If only this was true, and Ford would take notice.



New Years resolution for 2016 will be to extinguish sarcasim from all my posts. Untill then though....

Another truly bu||sh!+ article. It is bordering on the crazy Yahoo journalism that has no factual engineering base, just a bottom feeding id10+ information with the journalistic merrit of a half sucked jube...Image


Like this
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture ... ter-i6-is/



and this
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/ne ... commodore/


Just like the link repeted twice already back the same time last year.

GM got it right in 1963 when they axed the "Aluminum" 215 V8 for an iron V6 that became the GM 3800. The "Aluminati" did it, off course.

Accountants will always favour V6's, as the whole package has to fit front drive. In the One Ford Economy, in line sixes are totally out.


How does in line sixes figure in a front drive enivornment when a 60 degree V8or V6 is so well packaged and shares all the parts of even a V12? It doesn't!


The Duratec was based on the 60 degree SHO engine, and then begat the 60 SHO/Volvo/Taurus, then the V12 Aston Martin engines. A 4.015" bore center V6 rules the world for cost effiecency since the parts cross share everything. Yahamha'S 60 degree engine is cost king. That's why every 60 degree Ford V6 after the ill fated Third Generation 3.4 SHO V8 in 1996-99, which was the first Ford Taurus generation with a 60 degree V8 engine.

It was always a Yamaha cast off engine, and to this day, outboard V8 nad v6 king. Becaus a bent six can package anywhere. An I6 cant....



If you'd like some more ill researched stuff, try this.
Truley epic...

Actually shear ignorance perpetuated by the likes of Yahoo and others in ill researched articles by propane brained, rear engined focused reporters who wouldn't have two brain cells to rub together. People who think that a Pinto is rear engined, and that the Corvair fell over everytime it cornered.

Evidence? worst cars ever made

http://werankcities.com/gallery/26-worst-cars-ever-made/5/

1971 Ford Pinto

Much like the 1961 Corvair, the 1971 Ford Pinto was another car with its engine mounted in the rear. The difference? The 1971 Ford Pinto was by far more deadly than any car ever created. Even the slightest nudge to the back end of this car could turn it into a volatile disaster. Back in the day, it was almost as if Ford had no interest at all in the safety of the consumer.

Why do we say this? Well mainly because, it would have cost $121 million to reinforce the rear end of the car, as opposed to the $50 million it would cost to buyout the dissatisfied customers. Needless to say, if you're one of the people still driving the 1971 Ford Pinto, you must have a death wish! Read more at: http://werankcities.com/gallery/26-worst-cars-ever-made/5/

http://werankcities.com/gallery/26-worst-cars-ever-made/11/

1961 Corvair

The 1961 Corvair was literally a death trap on wheels. Everything about this atrocity was a disaster waiting to happen. To start, they mounted a flat six engine in the rear of the car. Anyone knows that if you have more weight in the back that you're more likely to spin out. That wasn't the biggest issue with the engine placement though. If you got into a fender Bender, it could turn ugly really quick.

If that wasn't enough for you, the 1961 Corvair also had a single piece steering column. As if worrying about your engine exploding behind you wasn't enough, you had to worry about your steering column impaling you in a front end collision. No wonder this car was deemed "Unsafe at any speed." Read more at: http://werankcities.com/gallery/26-worst-cars-ever-made/11/

1975 Morgan Plus 8 Propane

If you thought that the Pinto was a poorly designed and dangerous car, you obviously have never heard about the 1975 Morgan Plus 8 Propane! To start off, did they realize that they were in the 70's?! Everything about the exterior of the car gives off the vibe that this car was actually built in the 1930's. It had all the classic traits of the cars created 40 years prior including wing fenders, wooden-frame bodies, and sliding-pillar front suspensions. But guess what? That's not the worst thing about the 1975 Morgan Plus 8 Propane. Someone thought that it would be a bright idea to run the v8 engine off of a propane bottle. The worst part about the concept was that the propane bottle hung freely behind the rear bumper! I don't know about you, but we wouldn't want to be in that car when it got rear ended!! Read more at: http://werankcities.com/gallery/26-worst-cars-ever-made/17/

2016 Ford Mustang

Since the beginning of time, the Ford Mustang has always been an iconic car. To most, being able to own an old fastback is a dream, but with Mustangs being what they are, their price never depreciated. In fact, it seems that the older the car the more it's worth. Well over the last decade or so, the look of the Mustang has slowly been going from "American muscle" to "import tuner".

It finally became too much when Ford revealed the prototype for the 2016 Ford Mustang. At first, second, and fiftieth glance, all we can think about when we seen this horrendous car is a rounded Toyota Supra... Ford really did it this time. They may have ruined the way our children are going to look at muscle cars!! Read more at: http://werankcities.com/gallery/26-worst-cars-ever-made/25/

Thanks for Reading! Thanks for Reading! Read more at: http://werankcities.com/gallery/26-worst-cars-ever-made/26/



PS. I don't get backhanders for every click I sell to Road and Track and Yahooo, but I might start asking if such a financial incentive exists...
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Re: Why the straight-six engine is making a comeback

Post #8 by old jupiter » Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:25 pm

[quote="xctasy"]Hairy Ex Mas team!
New Years resolution for 2016 will be to extinguish sarcasm from all my posts. (end QUOTE).

Then how will we know it's really you, Dean?!! :rolflmao:

Yeah, you come on real strong at times. But we (specifically including ME) always need to take each others' individuality into account. It would be a real boring world if everybody were like me.

So let 'er rip, Deano!!

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Re: Why the straight-six engine is making a comeback

Post #9 by xctasy » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:45 pm

its the curse OJ...free refills with my Magic Mouth!


Both StrangeRanger and SuperMag said it best...they asked "am I missing something?".

Not you, I am missing something. Its called letting other people work it out there own way.


Sarcasm is just plain nasty, and it comes out when I hear people say stuff like "the six is making a comeback" when I dang well know Ford, the best in line six builder in the world, hasn't got one reason to continue making there in liners. The Ford EUCD platform can't take a Falcon 4.08" bore center six.

But its Fords idea to make the EUCD a four wheel drive police interceptor, and if it has a bent 6 or 8, so be it.


Image

Its nice to think some engineering concern will take over the tooling and makerear drive in line turbo Ranchero pickups and for a low price, but I realise the problems a six kabab stick is to package in a cab forward world.

Or that a 3.7 to 4.08" center to center in line six could be transversly mounted like a Muira's V12, and drive the front and or rear wheels while still allowing the wheels to turn on a 35 foot turning circle...and be no wider than 70 inches and cary 235 section tires.

Image

But as even the six cylinder engined S80 2.9 Volvo looked truley henous with a transverse six...(like Fiona from Shrek when she was an ogre), there is potential, but only as an entirely new strain of close bore center in line six.

As an I6, bent six or eight I can learn to like it. That's why the future is an I6 Chinese Volvo S80L

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kisDxlZMa0


The idea of adding 5-1/2" into the wheelbase of a 280 hp with AWD?


Well, with the three inches longer wheelbase (now at 116 inches) the Chinese Ford Taurus has, its basically a Volvo S80L AWD. Each is 280 hp. But I kinda like the Volvo I6 better.


Yep. The Volvo SI6 that ticks the boxes. If its anything like my RAV4, it'll be a pain in the a$$ to service, but I've seen the future, and Ford USA was right.


Its the Chinese that have made this ugly duckling quite cool. The Aussies have also done the same thing to the Chinese Taurus.

Now , the Chinese are adding wheelbase to the Taurus just like the S80L and the Rover 75 based cars they use over there.


Funny thing is, Ford Austraila is busy making the Taurus look like a Falcon for China...

Image

This could have been the new Ford Falcon.

But rather than going on sale in Australia, the large sedan designed and developed by local engineers will be exclusive to China as the new Ford Taurus.

With the blue oval abandoning plans to sell large sedans locally, Ford's Melbourne-based Asia-Pacific design director, Todd Willing, says his team focused on Chinese consumers.

"We wanted to create a vehicle that displays a maturity of design with balanced and harmonious proportions, tailored to the business customer in China," he says.

"Our aim was to create a vehicle that is elegant, inviting and quietly confident."

A separate model to the North American Taurus, this full-sized sedan was effectively designed from the inside out with powered rear seats offer reclining and massage functions for China's burgeoning business market.

Australian Ford management has decided to make the mid-sized Mondeo its local flagship rather than introducing a larger sedan.

The Taurus is among a trio of Australian-designed vehicles intended for China, where it will join the Everest SUV and Escort compact sedan in showrooms.




If the same EUCD cars can be painted POLICE DEPARTMENT white on black, and flipped by Nathan Barnatt in the Robin Schulz Sugar (feat. Francesco Yates) music video, then the Chinese will do it in a Volvo S80L


With an Upside Down Officer Finkelman...Then my I6 dreams will be complete. See 3:38 in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvC_0foemLY

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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Why the straight-six engine is making a comeback

Post #10 by old jupiter » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:19 am

Relevant to justifiable sarcasm (not engines), if you know something of welding and welding metallurgy, here's one of the noted experts on troubleshooting factory robot-welding lines talking about what he feels could be a looming disaster for Ford and its new aluminum-bodied vehicles. It's a long read, probably only of interest to welders:

http://www.weldreality.com/

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Re: Why the straight-six engine is making a comeback

Post #11 by xctasy » Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:43 am

old jupiter wrote:Relevant to justifiable sarcasm (not engines), if you know something of welding and welding metallurgy, here's one of the noted experts on troubleshooting factory robot-welding lines talking about what he feels could be a looming disaster for Ford and its new aluminum-bodied vehicles. It's a long read, probably only of interest to welders:

http://www.weldreality.com/


Its the age old process control issue, isn't it?

Too many engineers spoil the broth, if they are just agents for merchandisers. Goes right back to the Deming Method on seeing your way out of the crisis.

I like aluminum, but it sure has some issues that steel doesn't.


Now, I like cast iron even more. Cast Iron Charlie for eva! http://www.wcps.info/wordpress/?page_id=79
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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Why the straight-six engine is making a comeback

Post #12 by old jupiter » Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:21 pm

If anyone bothers with reading all the way through Ed Craig's site, you'll find his horror stories about how badly some of the factories ran their robotic welding lines years ago, making such bad welds on steel (a far more forgiving material than aluminum) that they had large numbers of guys manually re-welding vehicles as they came out of the robotic line . . . and not doing the reworks right either!! I would never have realized that such things could possibly occur in such a big, long-established industry. As a welder, my mind boggled at hearing about a Chrysler robot line where the chief welding engineer had specified the use of no-gas innershield wire. In .052" diameter. That's for building BRIDGES!!!!!! The guy couldn't figure out why they were constantly burning through chassis cross-members, and having to manually try to weld up the holes. And of course his answer, readily confirmed by outside salesmen, was that they needed to replace all their welding machines with high-buck digital pulsed welders, which solved nothing. Any dumb knuckle-dragging blue-collar welder could have taken one glance at the spool of wire and seen their problem. Yet the hired consultant, Ed Craig, could only convince Chrysler after many meetings and demonstrations.

If you're a welder AND live in earthquake country, go to that same site and Search "Northridge quake" to see another covered-up scandal. Brittle failures in weld beads that were expected to bend. Makes me wonder about how the Twin Towers collapsed on 9/11/01; maybe we haven't heard that whole story (I'm talking possible bad welds, not some stupid conspiracy theory).

Sorry about digressing off-topic.

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Re: Why the straight-six engine is making a comeback

Post #13 by STEVEN. » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:55 pm

Similar stories ABOUND with the Terrytown Plant...the 'Plant GM had chosen(and then HAD TO REFIT IT from the Ground up..) to build it's new Vega. It was the first 'Plant in the U.S.A. to use Robots to weld together the Bodies. And we all know just how that ended :roll: . I myself,have a pair of 'Preserved' Vega's(original's,..not Cars w/V8's swapped into 'em..)as well as a pair of Cosworth Vega's. I'm just coming to grips with that Limey-Bendix F.I. System :oops: :lol: :bang: .

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Re: Why the straight-six engine is making a comeback

Post #14 by xctasy » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:49 am

STEVEN. wrote:Similar stories ABOUND with the Terrytown Plant...the 'Plant GM had chosen(and then HAD TO REFIT IT from the Ground up..) to build it's new Vega. It was the first 'Plant in the U.S.A. to use Robots to weld together the Bodies. And we all know just how that ended :roll: . I myself,have a pair of 'Preserved' Vega's(original's,..not Cars w/V8's swapped into 'em..)as well as a pair of Cosworth Vega's. I'm just coming to grips with that Limey-Bendix F.I. System :oops: :lol: :bang: .


It was SUCH a great EFI system. The press had it in for that car. The US Silcon Valley industry made the electronics work. The early Brico system was totally on the right track too, the eventual founders of Brico made the Bendix system what bailed out the whole Cosworth Vega project after the twin 32/36 5200 carb engines failed its 50000 mile durability tests. GM spent another 2 years mastering the EFI.

So was the Saginaw Five speed "Porsche gate" gearbox option and any Vega 390 reynolds block that didn't have porosity problems. There weren't many that didn't leak. Cosworth were horrified that the prodcution blocks could have such a posity variance. Some were very relaible, others would leak lie a sieve. Keith Duckworth siad it was just a production problem, and as soon as you removed the black art aspect of casting alloy blocks, and used some proper University gradute metalergists who would report the results, an alloy casting could be cast without poristy 100% of th time. Actually, GM fixed it sing just that method, but too late to cover off the claimes and reclaime the Vega/Aster name. The only good practical solution to it is the Melling iron sleave kit fixed up the etched alloy block.

GM dominated the development of commerically sucessfull alloy blocks, but it took 35 years and four notable failures along the way since the first 215 Buick Olds Pontiac engine to do it. Rover in the UK re-created a knock off BOP 215 seaved block that still suffered liner shift right up to the bitter endin the mid Noughties. The orginal 215 was also a failure(but it spawned the awesome alloy Leyland P76, and iron Duntlass 225 and /231/GM3800 V6 and Buick alloy headed 301 V8), then the Vega 2300 and destroked Cosworth Vega 2000, then the Cadillac 4.1...all base engines were failures from a reliablity stand point. They sure got some great process control data.

Suddenly, the 4.8/5.3/5.7 and later LS blocks hit paydirt. The GM 4200 proved they could get it right 100% of the time, but no-one likes six in lines when you can get a 400 pound dancin knitting needle 6 liter V8 to punch the crap out of a twin cam six. A GM 4200 is just six cylinder Cosworth 2000 made on a smaller 4.05" bore spacing, rather then the 4.40" spacing the Vega engine had.

Your Cosworth was an exceptionally good car, STEVEN. Mind you 7500 was a good wack in 1976 if you'd put down dollars for it in 1973. As many did.
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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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