Cracked 250 Head. Need Advice

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jimmyv65
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Cracked 250 Head. Need Advice

Post #1 by jimmyv65 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:15 am

Hi Folks,

My first post here.

I am in the midst of a 1966 Bronco restore project. I want to stay with a 6 cyl. Got a hold of a 250 from a '77 Granada. My machine shop says the head is cracked. I got a new head....it is cracked too.

Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with a machine shop "pinning" a crack to repair it?

Also, does any know a good call on where to get a head that isn't cracked? I am searching car-part.com, but nothing used seems to be guaranteed.
1966 Bronco-'78 250-Meagsquirted TBI, DUI, Header, Cam, Hydroboost & Front Disc, Uncut, 1" body lift, 2.0" suspension lift

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CoupeBoy
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Re: Cracked 250 Head. Need Advice

Post #2 by CoupeBoy » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:37 pm

Any newer 200/250 head will do just fine. If you fill in your location I am certain that somebody will be able to help get you going again.
1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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Re: Cracked 250 Head. Need Advice

Post #3 by CZLN6 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:29 am

Howdy Jimmy:

And welcome to THE FORUM. Yes, it is that good!

Where were the heads cracked? What are the casting codes of the cracked heads? The casting code is cast onto the top of the intake log just behind the carb pad.

If you have recycle yards near you, you should be able to pick up a good rebuildable core head fairly cheaply. Look for a '78 donor with a 200 or 250 engine. They will be the same.

How about some more info on the engine you'll be building?

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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Re: Cracked 250 Head. Need Advice

Post #4 by bmbm40 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:04 pm

A guy on classicbroncos is selling his 200 and is also selling the power steering setup but he is in TN don't know how far that is from you. He thinks it is a 78 engine can hear it run for 350- power steering stuff is extra but way faster and easier than rounding this up piece by piece. You could use the head and sell the block. Power steering is a great upgrade.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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chad
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Re: Cracked 250 Head. Need Advice

Post #5 by chad » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:17 am

"...car-part.com..."
what search criteria R U using? Different yrs, models will widen the search. Expect to pay for 50 lbs shipping.

Need more bronks here, esp w/250!!!
Welcome to our necka the woods, keep talkin...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Cracked 250 Head. Need Advice

Post #6 by mustang6 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:26 am

I have a 250 head from a 70 Mustang that has been hot tanked and magnafluxed (certified no cracks!) I would sell for $50 if you are interested. I had a shop disassemble, tank it and the parts, and magnaflux for cracks as I was preparing to mod it for a direct mount 2V and wanted to be sure there were no cracks before investing in that machine work. The shop said no cracks, the springs could be reused, the valves could be ground, I was just trying to decide whether or not to install hardened seats when doing the valve job, and never went any further. So $50 plus shipping, guaranteed not cracked, with all small parts. I have more than $50 in the cleaning/magnafluxing work alone.
Scott

68 Mustang 200 ci, Aussie 250-2V head, Dual Headers, Comp Cams 252H, DSII w/MSD 6AL, T-5, V8 suspension.

65 Ranchero 200 ci, late 170 head, Autolite 1101, 3.03 3 speed, Maverick 8" 4 lug rear with 3.55 gears.

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chad
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Re: Cracked 250 Head. Need Advice

Post #7 by chad » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:00 pm

ya still here "jimmy"?

Happy New Year to ALL!
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Cracked 250 Head. Need Advice

Post #8 by jimmyv65 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:49 pm

chad wrote:ya still here "jimmy"?


I am! Sorry gents, I got away from my project during December and January. I ended up sourcing an additional head and it was cracked even more. In the end, my machine shop was able to pin, weld & braze the first head that I had posted about here. They were going to be messing with it anyway in order to do the weber carb plate mod.

So, as of this weekend, I have my motor back from the machine shop. I am starting to piece the motor back together.

Now, I have a new big question--to modify the oil pan or not. I've been reading up and I see people that did fine with no oil pan mod and clearing the front pumpkin. Others took on the mod. It's not just welding the pans, it looks like you'd have to mod the oil pick up tube as well.
1966 Bronco-'78 250-Meagsquirted TBI, DUI, Header, Cam, Hydroboost & Front Disc, Uncut, 1" body lift, 2.0" suspension lift

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Re: Cracked 250 Head. Need Advice

Post #9 by chad » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:38 pm

none'a dat is a big deal (to many folk). U may not hafta do it. Each rig is different, springs sag, lifts (a BL or SL can effect) R added, no bumpers/heavy (subtracted/added weight), etc...

none standard motor implants often have to B tried/removed or wiggled (read "adapted" some). Like yerself I'd like to know everything 1st B4 gettin into it. The Maverick motor mounts/towers R recommended. Also to 'slot' them (elongate the bolt holes downward in the towers) to lower the engine. One fella "hard mounted' (took out the rubber mount). I don't recommend that.

The hood may B a more important consideration. 250's deck is higher. With the motor in strike a straight edge acc the bay 2 C if the carb/air cleaner will hit. The direct mount will B lower than mine!

clutch & throttle linkage will B different, hummm, let's C... I think I counted 6 or 7 possible mods toward fitment successes. What transmission will U use? 250's bell is a main reason I went that way. The 4.9 woulda been ideal but...
:twisted:
woulda been too heavy, mights well go diesel
8^0
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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chad
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buildin the 4.1 bronk

Post #10 by chad » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:49 pm

CZLN6 wrote: Look for a '78 donor with a 200 or 250 engine. They will be the same.
How about some more info on the engine you'll be building?
Adios, David


Hey David...? I'm still tryin to figure in low rev tq.

* Will the large log ( I think the 'hex log' is a name used interchangeably) help with that or is that more for hp?

I can't do the cam price wise right now but think of both (if wise) at some point in the future...
One blessed soul from this forum will send me the RBS U recommended (for increased low rev tq).

Thank you.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Cracked 250 Head. Need Advice

Post #11 by jimmyv65 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:08 am

chad wrote:none'a dat is a big deal (to many folk). U may not hafta do it. Each rig is different, springs sag, lifts (a BL or SL can effect) R added, no bumpers/heavy (subtracted/added weight), etc...


Yeah, hindsite, I may have gone a different direction on the motor. The 4BT option is interesting and as my costs pile up, I am a little sad I didn't go that route. I should have researched the 250 option a little further...my bad.

So, here's a couple thoughts so far:
Tranny/Bell: I am reusing my original 6 cyl tranny with a big bell from a V8. I have it and it all looks like it will fit. The flywheel wasn't cheap. Finding a zero balance V8 flywheel drove me to Summit for a new one. Most used ones have balance in it as that is what the V8 usually needs. More cost there than planned.

Clutch Linkage: I'll find out on that one as I install. I think I will be OK. It looks like there is a fair amount of adjustment in the original manual linkage and I am hopeful that will be easy. Crossing fingers until I have it in.

Hood Clearance/Mounts: I have a 2 inch body lift. I "should" be OK, but I will deal with it after install. Crossing fingers at this point.

Oil Pan: Agreed, I may not need to do anything(run it as is) and/or try it as is at first. I have new springs(2.5 lift). I can come back around to the pan after I get it driving.

Couple thoughts on the pan:
1) You can't just reverse it! The pan mounting is different on each side of the motor. Also, the oil pick up would need to be modded. When folks talk about the reversing the pan, I think they mean, cutting off the bottom, reverse and re-weld.
2) You can mate a 170/200 4x4 pan to a 250 pan, but the oil pick up mod looks challenging. I have only seen one person actually do this(in web searches), so the success rate(as far as I know is low).
3) I am looking at adding my own bump in/cut out for the clearance of the front pumpkin. As I look at it, it seems like that would be the least amount of fabrication and welding. Also, the oil p/u mod would be really simple--cut it and re-weld it turned about 45 degrees. Again, I haven't decided this is possible or not. I need to do some measurements.

At this point, I am all in. It would be too costly(time and money to turn back). I am not a huge fan of the 250 swap. For all the effort, it seems like you still have a lower power mill. We'll see when I get it running and driving. I had wanted to stay inline six for a couple of reasons, but if I could do over I would look very closely at a 4BT.

My son was doing a on-line blog/presentation of the project. It needs some updating, but this can give you a feel of our project:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/10-wqVwAO3O3QM1C6m8t_v2Tspm7UqIlT7ai1d2aSltQ/present#slide=id.p
1966 Bronco-'78 250-Meagsquirted TBI, DUI, Header, Cam, Hydroboost & Front Disc, Uncut, 1" body lift, 2.0" suspension lift

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chad
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Re: Cracked 250 Head. Need Advice

Post #12 by chad » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:59 am

U Go Jimmy!

ahead a me & I had the rig since '83 (just poor & busy is all. the thing makes me money as is & takin it outta production is hard).
the 300/4.9 is also an option some have done (@ least one in a back issue of BD). move the fire wall or radiator is the drill due to the l e g n t h of that motor. I like the option (esp w/the fire wall - wouldn't wanna have that big thing too far out over the frnt axle) because there is no better gasser for this application.
I believe THAT was something the factory should have done back in the day (also an oe 1 inch BL and may B the NP435).

IF (prob not) the pan needs help U must make sure the p/u is close to the lowest prt of the sump. I understood U could just pull it out and turn it, bolt it back in.. Bubba has said it needs to B 1/4 offa the bottom - R U there? is that right?. U can cut off the 'ring' of the 250 pan & braze it onto the orig. All sorta stuff (1/2 a 1, 1/2 the other ie frnt & back)...

I'll us3e my 300/4.9 fly wheel, 302 bell (not sure what clutch) and 3.03 tranny (from the bronk) @ first.


The 4Bt is way too heavy for this rig in my opinion but have seen 1 and know of 4 folks who have done it.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Cracked 250 Head. Need Advice

Post #13 by bmbm40 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:09 am

I found my 250 flywheel on ebay for about $50 it seems not that it will do you any good. There is info on classicinlines about the 200/250 swap detailing the 300 flywheel used. Again not useful now. Sorry to hear of your troubles so far, mine was relatively easy to do and with your bl you should not have hood clearance problems. I doubt that you will need to elongate the engine mount holes. Mine has a 2.5" sl and for dirt roads have no problems with oil pan clearance. I may graft the bottom of my 170 pan onto the 250 flange. Not sure but the 170 pick up tube may bolt on the 250, I need to check that. I had to fab something up for the clutch linkage.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

jimmyv65
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Re: Cracked 250 Head. Need Advice

Post #14 by jimmyv65 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:32 am

Dang! I wish I had caught that on the flywheel. It wasn't too bad of a haircut. I think it cost me $230 vs. $50-100 on ebay. The project will end up being around $12Kish all in, so a little too much on the flywheel isn't terrible. I've had some good savings on other stuff, so it balances out.

It's mainly going to be a road truck, so the pan clearance doesn't have to be huge at first. I like my 4x4's to be usable, so I will end up doing something with the pan. I may just wait until after I get it driving and come back to the pan.

Agreed that I think I can make it all work. I am looking forward to getting out of the cold season in Wisconsin and getting back at it. I don't have enough heater to make Jan & Feb good garage work months. I will get back at hard in March and hope to finish it all up in mid-summer.

bmbm40 wrote:I found my 250 flywheel on ebay for about $50 it seems not that it will do you any good. There is info on classicinlines about the 200/250 swap detailing the 300 flywheel used. Again not useful now. Sorry to hear of your troubles so far, mine was relatively easy to do and with your bl you should not have hood clearance problems. I doubt that you will need to elongate the engine mount holes. Mine has a 2.5" sl and for dirt roads have no problems with oil pan clearance. I may graft the bottom of my 170 pan onto the 250 flange. Not sure but the 170 pick up tube may bolt on the 250, I need to check that. I had to fab something up for the clutch linkage.
1966 Bronco-'78 250-Meagsquirted TBI, DUI, Header, Cam, Hydroboost & Front Disc, Uncut, 1" body lift, 2.0" suspension lift

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