200 with a Big Block ZF???

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garyt120r
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200 with a Big Block ZF???

Post #1 by garyt120r » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:55 pm

So the other day I laid the 460 block plate on the floor. I laid the 200 block plate on top of it. Looks like a 200 can be easily adapted to the 460 big block ZF transmission. The Bronco needs a 2" body lift and the clutch disc would need a 1.250" x 10 spline pilot. Might need to be custom made. Seeing as I am relatively new to the inline sixes, I am sure there is something I haven't considered. Any comments or suggestions?

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bmbm40
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Re: 200 with a Big Block ZF???

Post #2 by bmbm40 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:31 am

I think you would need a custom flywheel or if the big block fw could be drilled to bolt up to the 200 for starters. Since you asked for any comments or suggestions and if you want to stay with the six and od trans which I can understand, the six is lightweight and I like the low end torque they have plus maintenance is so easy not being crowded in the engine bay. Plus the od makes for quiet, relaxed (by Bronco standards) cruising on the highway. As a low cost and probably easier less time consuming option consider the 250/M50 trans/1"bl combination. You can find the 250 still, the one in my Bronco I paid 125 for and it just had a valve job not saying you will find the same deal but they can be found. The M50 was used in many 90's F150 and it bolts up to the 250 no adapter to purchase, just pull the trans with bell flywheel clutch starter all that from the donor. It would need the adapter for the D20 they used to be around 300 from AA. One thing about that trans is it has a hydraulic clutch. Then since you only need a 1" body lift you should save money and time because I have heard the 2" bl requires some work. My 1"bl did not need any additional mods.
And I can tell you from experience since I swapped out my good running 200 for the 250 they have a lot more torque. They are probably the best six for the Bronco. You would have to put several hundred in that 200 to match the torque of the stock 250 in my opinion and you can still hop up the 250, I plan to. You also may have less downtime so more bronco driving time.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

garyt120r
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Re: 200 with a Big Block ZF???

Post #3 by garyt120r » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:58 am

Thanks for the comments. 250s are almost unheard of where i am in Canada. Even 200s are rare but they can be found. I didn't even think of a flywheel swap... that would be easier than getting a custom clutch disc made. Then again it may mess with my starter. Hmmm. Something to look into. If a 10" flywheel can be made to fit the 200 then that solves a lot of problems. There is a 10" clutch for the 460. I think I'm gonna have to try and mate these 2 together to see how it works.

The transfer case is easy. Either a D20 adapter or an NP205.

The 2" vs 1" body lift is a non issue for me as I'm doing a frame up build anyway.

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Re: 200 with a Big Block ZF???

Post #4 by Broncitis » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:57 am

Can't be done. :bang:
69 Early bronco, 4.11, toploader 4speed, 68k 3inch body lift, ET about 50 something!!!

garyt120r
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Re: 200 with a Big Block ZF???

Post #5 by garyt120r » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:24 pm

No? Care to elaborate why?

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Re: 200 with a Big Block ZF???

Post #6 by Broncitis » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:40 am

I honestly don't know all the details, but I wanted to put a 300 ford six in front of a 460 zf5 and did research and called AA and they told me it could not be done and that I would have to get a sbf pattern zf5, maybe you can be the first, but you will not find anyone who has done this, I looked hours, because the 460 is killing me on gas.
69 Early bronco, 4.11, toploader 4speed, 68k 3inch body lift, ET about 50 something!!!

garyt120r
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Re: 200 with a Big Block ZF???

Post #7 by garyt120r » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:45 pm

The 300 and the 200 are totally different engines.

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Re: 200 with a Big Block ZF???

Post #8 by Broncitis » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:36 pm

Just let us know how you did it.
69 Early bronco, 4.11, toploader 4speed, 68k 3inch body lift, ET about 50 something!!!

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chad
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Re: 200 with a Big Block ZF???

Post #9 by chad » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:03 pm

garyt120r wrote:The 300 and the 200 are totally different engines.

but the 250 is not:
250, 300, 302, 351, 400M all have same bell, no?...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

garyt120r
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Re: 200 with a Big Block ZF???

Post #10 by garyt120r » Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:58 am

The 250, 300, 302 and 351 have the same Bell pattern. The 351M and 400M share the 370, 429 and 460 bell patterns.

The reason the 200 would be doable with a big block bellhousing is because it's so physically small. The 200 would mount on the inside of the big block bell pattern. The clutch plate would been to be custom made to the spline count. I think it's a 10 spline for the big block. I have a 200 block plate and a big block - block plate. If you lay them flat on each other, you can see how easy it would be to make an adapter plate. The 2 major issues I see are space between the frame rails and needing a body lift to clear the massive bellhousing. I have the 1" wildhorses body lift kit on my '66 Bronco. It looked like enough clearance when I put the big block plate in and eyeballed it, but of course that's not accurate.

My 200 has a few mods to it, but nothing major. It will be getting an eaton M90 as soon as the truck is back on the road. So I don't expect my stock 3-speed to live very long. I may just test out the theory then.

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chad
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Re: 200 with a Big Block ZF???

Post #11 by chad » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:37 pm

Ahh, good, ok, thank you.
there's a 351M, W, and a 'no designation'?
(BTW: I left out the 289 & 5.0 all w/the same 'bell').
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

garyt120r
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Re: 200 with a Big Block ZF???

Post #12 by garyt120r » Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:45 am

There's a 351W, 351M and if that's not confusing enough, there's a 351C. The 351C being an oddball as it came in a few bellhousing patterns.

Someday I'll get kean enough and draw up both the 200 and big block bellhousing patterns on autocad and overlap them. It'll be easy to see how an adapter plate would work. Now if the crank will allow the ZF pilot or if a clutch can be made with the ZF spline... Well I haven't bothered looking into that yet.

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JackFish
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Re: 200 with a Big Block ZF???

Post #13 by JackFish » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:25 am

garyt120r wrote:Thanks for the comments. 250s are almost unheard of where i am in Canada.

Don't know where you are up here but there's a 250 for sale on the Winnipeg kijiji:
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-engines-and-engi ... nFlag=true
Cheap! $150!
Most guys just want these things out of the garage.
You want me to buy it for you?
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Yup, I bought another one.
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Re: 200 with a Big Block ZF???

Post #14 by jimmyv65 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:45 pm

Some later model 200's are set up for the Big Bell and no trans adapter would be required.

I think all 250's were big bell.

In my build thread, I have some details that would be relevant on trans/flywheel adaption.

For a flywheel, I was able to use the flywheel from a 300. It worked for starter/engine alignment. The 300 flywheel is essentially the same size as the one for 302 and many other V8's.

Clutch plate...Find one with the right spline pattern and for a v8 and I bet it will bolt right up to the 300 flywheel.
1966 Bronco-'78 250-Meagsquirted TBI, DUI, Header, Cam, Hydroboost & Front Disc, Uncut, 1" body lift, 2.0" suspension lift

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Re: 200 with a Big Block ZF???

Post #15 by bmbm40 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:18 am

JackFish-that was a good buy for that 250. I would have bought that just to have one more in my inventory.

jimmyv65- yep all 250's are sbf bell housing.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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