Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

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Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #1 by 1966Mustang » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:53 pm

So, I've been doing a lot of research on how to make my mustang handle like I think ought to. I really like the roller perches, that makes sense, and I remember tossing out my old bronze bushed ones...read all of the tcp, opentracker, maier, heidts, fatman, these forums, etc and others. Weighted all the information, accessed my goals, coaxed everything into a comfy place, blah blah...

I've gone with the Street or Track front bilstein coilovers. Naturally, I will document the whole teardown and install. It should be shipping next week. So far Shaun over there has been Jonny on the spot regarding questions and responding in a timely fashion. This should be fun. I'll also be installing the Scott Drake 4-1/2 leaf springs with rear bilsteins and I have some rear frame rail section to replace. Working on fabbing up some dazecars subframe connectors in the coming weeks too. Sooo.. stay tuned!!! and Happy New Year!
Last edited by 1966Mustang on Wed May 28, 2014 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'65 Mustang Coupe, C4, DUI, CompCams 260, Addco 1", StreetOrTrack Front Bilstein Coilover System, Bilstein Rear Shocks, 4-1/2 leaf springs.

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Re: Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #2 by CoupeBoy » Fri May 09, 2014 3:49 pm

Well, where's my updates? :rolflmao:

And how much would it cost me to have you ship me your old strut rods?
1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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Re: Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #3 by 1966Mustang » Wed May 21, 2014 2:35 am

Yikes!!! I guess I haven't been on here in a really long time! I still have all of the original suspension pieces too if you're still interested.

Just last night, I torqued down the suspension. I have to run out and get an inner front bearing seal so I can slap the hub/rotor brakes on the driver side.

Heres a link to the latest pics. Feel free to browse through.
http://clarks.cowhill.net:88/gallery2/v ... 9.jpg.html

Lemme tell ya, it turned into quite a project! The front end sheetmetal wasn't great so I spent an inordinate amount of time cleaning up metal. Repaininting, welding, etc... I think it is acceptable how the frontend is turning out. Now I have a bunch of little things to remember where they all went. This certainly hasn't been a slap it in and go type thing. The SoT kit itself is an awesome piece of engineering and kiting, I can't wait to drive it.

The biggest PITA in the world is installing the lower camber kit. I sincerely hope I can actually use the alternate adjustments it provides.

Had a lot of other projects - work projects, wife wanted new kitchen project, not having any weekends... all sorts of things conspired to keep me from my project! But I am making up time...
'65 Mustang Coupe, C4, DUI, CompCams 260, Addco 1", StreetOrTrack Front Bilstein Coilover System, Bilstein Rear Shocks, 4-1/2 leaf springs.

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6 month mark... New Suspension!!

Post #4 by 1966Mustang » Sun May 25, 2014 10:16 am

Coming up on the six month mark here... someone has been slackin.
The front end is now sporting newly fabricated NiCopp brakeline. Great stuff to work with. Unfortunately, the Cal Van inline flare tool I picked up for the job stripped out its base. Not sure why they went with a diecast base... I got about 3 flares out of it and the threads on the base disintegrated. Ended up returning it and renting the Alltrade kit from AdvanceAuto. The Alltrade kit is very good, and if you screw up a part... No worries. They just replace the broken component anyway and you get your $ back on the rental. This is a much better deal than ending up with a broken double flare kit that you get to own.
Also, if using AGS brand tube nuts, make sure the nuts you select have the chamfer machined properly. I have at least one tube nut which was not chamfered. Missed at inspection I suppose. :roll:

Also, re AdvanceAuto... use their online ordering, apply coupon codes (TRT30 has worked many times for me...), then go pick up your order. Last time I went, I ended up placing the order from my smartphone in the Advance parking lot, walked in and got my parts at 30% off. :beer:

Another note... if using CSRP brakes (or granada kits) make sure you position the mounting bracket for the flexible brakeline at a point in front of the sway bar notches on the frame. It's probably best to have the swaybars installed at the time you plumb your brakes, but my car is still on the jackstands. You could mount the swaybar to its frame mount points and let it flop around through its arc of travel to make sure it will not interfere with the brakeline.
At this time I have not reinstalled the rotor splash guards. Basically because I haven't repainted them yet. These should be added back. :duh:

Regarding wheel bearings... for some silly reason I don't own a shop press, so what I did was carefully chisel (lol...) from the back side of each race and beat the old race out... again... carefully.. until it popped out. To install the new races I squared up the new races (checking first that I did not gouge the bores with my chiseling) in the bore. Tap the new races in until they are flush with the top of the bore using a block of wood and a mallet. Make sure you do this squarely. Once you get the race flush, grab your old race. I used my old races to drive in the new races. (Since I didnt have something nicer.) To make life easier, you could cut out a 1/4" section of the old race with a die grinder. Make sure you clean up any burs on the split race.
Then... line up your split race with the new race and beat it in until your new race bottoms. Then, remove the old race, possibly with a hose clamp to compress it, or pliers or some other tool of presuasion. Do not chisel at it.
I will let you all know how this process went as soon as I have to replace my rotors, bearings, spindles, etc... :bang:
'65 Mustang Coupe, C4, DUI, CompCams 260, Addco 1", StreetOrTrack Front Bilstein Coilover System, Bilstein Rear Shocks, 4-1/2 leaf springs.

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Re: Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #5 by 1966Mustang » Mon May 26, 2014 7:21 pm

Happy Memorial Day! The goal today was to get the car back on its wheels. The suspension pieces are all bolted on, brake lines are plumbed, attached frame connector behind engine, mounted starter, connected tie rods to spindles, greased up the steering box. Time to go dig out the wheels and lower it down off the jack stands. We're still several weeks from actually driving it but at least we can roll it back out of the garage to get it undusted and clean up the garage a bit. Feels like the end is near, although I need to deal with mounting bits back on the engine, wiring, some fender work, body plugs, nuts n bolts, etc... ugh. Time to hit it hard...
Is now on all fours!
'65 Mustang Coupe, C4, DUI, CompCams 260, Addco 1", StreetOrTrack Front Bilstein Coilover System, Bilstein Rear Shocks, 4-1/2 leaf springs.

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Re: Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #6 by CoupeBoy » Tue May 27, 2014 3:40 pm

That's how I've always done bearings and races.. :oops:
1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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Re: Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #7 by 1966Mustang » Wed May 28, 2014 10:13 pm

Pic of Suspension installed, before tires. click for image
'65 Mustang Coupe, C4, DUI, CompCams 260, Addco 1", StreetOrTrack Front Bilstein Coilover System, Bilstein Rear Shocks, 4-1/2 leaf springs.

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Re: Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #8 by bubba22349 » Thu May 29, 2014 1:00 pm

:hmmm: :thumbup: Wow that looks great, do you know how much of a difference there is in weight from the stock front end parts?
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #9 by 1966Mustang » Thu May 29, 2014 4:53 pm

I will get a weight for you, but I suspect the old coil springs were the heaviest piece of the old system. The new system isn't 'light' but certainly feels more 'accurate' and smooth. Everything lined right up on installation too, although I did a lot of test fitting, beer drinking and staring during various stages of cleaning up the front end. Well written instructions, good pictures, excellent response time to questions. etc etc.

As a side note... I had inquired about the necessity of adding the shock tower bracing and I am told by Shaun from StreetOrTrack that the trans-am style bracing isn't absolutely necessary because the motion ratio is 50% better than stock which takes load off of the UCA area of the shock tower (though not necessarily taking 50% of the load off).

At any rate, I patterned then created CAD .DXF files for someone with a CNC plasma cutter to burn out if they want to start making outer shock tower braces for 65/66 mustangs. They look nicer than the ones I could buy IMHO.
'65 Mustang Coupe, C4, DUI, CompCams 260, Addco 1", StreetOrTrack Front Bilstein Coilover System, Bilstein Rear Shocks, 4-1/2 leaf springs.

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Re: Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #10 by CoupeBoy » Thu May 29, 2014 5:28 pm

1966Mustang wrote:At any rate, I patterned then created CAD .DXF files for someone with a CNC plasma cutter to burn out if they want to start making outer shock tower braces for 65/66 mustangs. They look nicer than the ones I could buy IMHO.
You could always send em to me... I build stuff
Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions
Picture of CAD/DWG file
SmallSix_MotorMount_CAD_BigBracket.jpg

Fresh cut plates
Image

Where the plates were supposed to be bent, my first set are off just a little bit..
Image
A set of brackets one without the bushing tube, and a complete setup for one side.
Image

And back to back with a stock mount.
Image
Image

And the reason I had asked about your factory strut rods was not that I needed one, its that I want to measure one. I've been working with another guy from a different forum, goes by buening on a lot of forums. He has provided me with Strut Rod Plate drawings for standard front ends and coil over suspension Lower Control arm plates to build my own custom strut rods.
StrutRodPlateV2.jpg


I wanted to have another plate built for the early Mustangs/Falcons.

If I had CAD skills, I'd be dangerous :rolflmao:
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1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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Re: Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #11 by 1966Mustang » Thu May 29, 2014 9:20 pm

well... now I know who to go to.
'65 Mustang Coupe, C4, DUI, CompCams 260, Addco 1", StreetOrTrack Front Bilstein Coilover System, Bilstein Rear Shocks, 4-1/2 leaf springs.

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Re: Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #12 by CoupeBoy » Thu May 29, 2014 9:30 pm

I kinda thought you already knew from this thread
Building an Export Brace

Eventually I'd like to repop all those shock tower reinforcement plates. What they are asking for them is lunacy for a couple pieces of flat plate.
1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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Re: Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #13 by 1966Mustang » Thu May 29, 2014 10:19 pm

Yeah, guess I did. But I didn't put together that the bolt spacing on the cowl that I relayed to you ended up in production :beer: . Maybe was all the iron dust affecting me... :duh:

CoupeBoy - I read the rest of the motor mount build thread. Very nice, and very nice export brace pieces too. Sometimes when I've had to bend thicker metal in tighter 'U's on equipment not rated or setup to do it I would CAD in dashes along the brake line. That way you could press brake it close enough before hitting the back of the die and finish the angle in a box/pan brake (or hammer and edge of bench...). The plasma'd in dashes remove some strain on the pan brake, especially in thicker plate. Check your PM box...

I could go further and pattern the inside of the towers, but its a tad tight with the engine in. Agree that the price for the kits are ridiculous. Other parts that are overpriced are the lower camber kits for 65/66. I bought one anyway. They are laser cut... so they got that going for them. :roll:

Regarding subframe connectors... I was thinking about patterning some these slick looking Spintech body contoured type that look like they're supposed to be there. But... better-er. But at $249 a set, doesn't seem like it'd be worth the effort to lay on my back to pattern them. I do like the Dazecars ones though.

Image

http://www.spintechmufflers.com/mustang-subframe-connectors/-39-65-39-70-mustang-sub-frame-connectors/prod_65.html

Spent the earlier part of the evening cleaning up nuts and bolts I soaked for a couple days in Ospho then in brake fluid (to get paint off them). With a little wire brush action they look like new I tell ya. Cleaned up the underhood lighting harness too.
'65 Mustang Coupe, C4, DUI, CompCams 260, Addco 1", StreetOrTrack Front Bilstein Coilover System, Bilstein Rear Shocks, 4-1/2 leaf springs.

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Re: Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #14 by CoupeBoy » Fri May 30, 2014 12:01 pm

Production is a mighty big word.. Not a single set of them have been installed anywhere, not even test fit. On any of it, inline motor mounts, transmission crossmember, export brace.. none of it....

I have been talking with a local CNC fab shop, he gave me estimates and cost break down at certain quantities. However such things are not my day job and my personal life take a lot of my free time, so it just hasn't moved forward.

Eccentric Eliminator plates.. buening provided me drawings for that too..
'67-70 Mustang
Eccentric Eliminator Plate.jpg


I assumed that I'd be able to find the other bracket for the lower control arm mount bolt for a '67-70 and weld it onto a '60-66 unibody (Falcon/Mustang/Comet) and then only have to slot the lower hole with a dremel/die grinder

FWIW, buening has a 1970 Mach1 (not an inline 6) and he is one creative guy.
He provided me information on building my own engine crossmember with LCA tie in slots also
IMG_5106a_512_384.jpg

If you want any of these, shoot me an email ron.beyer @ gmail

The slots on an area to be bent is exactly what the guys at Paul Horton do for their Welder Series products
Mustang II Crossmember, for coil springs
What appears as lines in the pictures are actually laser-cut slits in the plate. These slits make it easy to form the piece by hand, or, in some cases, by using an adjustable wrench to get a better grip on a small tab.


Subframe connectors are an interesting item, no matter what your goal is, they always tie the front subframe to the rear subframe and that they only increase the beam strength and do very little to reduce frame twist. I think more people spend time trying to decide what look they want than they do trying to decide if they want them.

Head over and read this thread, yes its long, but very informational.
Torsional rigidity test: 67 coupe -- Stangnet.com forum
It is a very detailed forum thread that covers all the 'normal' upgrades and he strapped the car down on 3 corners and then hung weight from the 4th corner of the car and measured deflection after each modification.

Export Brace and rear seat bracing were the quickest and made the most difference.

If you haven't done them yet, I'd recommend adding torque boxes to your '66 Mustang to connect the stock subframes to the stock rocker panels.

I also noticed that when looking at the spintech site, that it looks like they added convertible rocker panels AND extra square tubing to the rocker panel?
(top of this picture, on a coupe, there would normally be a pinch weld and a small (bout 1.5") flat spot on the outside of the pinch weld. This picture has a LOT of flat real estate on the inside of the rocker panel weld flange. (which I assume is the silver line running somewhat diagonally across the top of the image)
Image

I don't know quite as much as dean-o.. but I do my fair share of internet information whoring..
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1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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Re: Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #15 by bubba22349 » Fri May 30, 2014 12:34 pm

:hmmm: Those sub frame connectors are very clean looking! I have been building my own from box tubing on drag race car projects for many years. they work very well at taking the twist out of a Falcon or Mustang chassis on launch. These would be be great way to do it and still keep a near stock look, thanks for posting. :thumbup:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #16 by 1966Mustang » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:46 am

Hi Bubba,

It looks like the old suspension - uca/lca, perches, strut rods, shocks, and springs weigh around 60 lbs. Yep, I've only answered 1/2 of the question. Will update when I figure out the other side of the equation. :)

Enjoy your day!

Perry
'65 Mustang Coupe, C4, DUI, CompCams 260, Addco 1", StreetOrTrack Front Bilstein Coilover System, Bilstein Rear Shocks, 4-1/2 leaf springs.

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Re: Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #17 by CoupeBoy » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:07 pm

I emailed Street or Track to request the weight of their system.
Shaun wrote:Thank you for your message. Weight will vary a few pounds based on year vehicle and spring rate but you can figure approx. 75lbs for everything (UCA's, LCA's, Strut Rods, coilover shock/spring and all brackets).

Kind Regards
Shaun
1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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Re: Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #18 by 1966Mustang » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:19 pm

Email SoT... lol... so did I.
Cool, now we know. I'll gain a couple lbs for better handling... I can always lose the difference! I spent my evening cleaning up the reenginemachine hella light wiring. Merged it over to the driver side apron, spliced into the lighting harness there. Cut the redblack greenblack, fished the no longer needed wires out of the harness, cut off the stock headlight connectors. reran the heavier stuff from the relays to where they should go. I'll have pictures. Ran a power feed from the alternator along the bottom brace harness to power the lights. Again... pics coming.
Basically in stock form the kit is plug and play... it plugs into the stock headlamp socket in the passenger side to power the relays, then runs all the way over to the drivers side. And you end up with more junk on the battery side. Well... thats good if you want 10 miles of wire running all over and more stuff to melt on your exhaust. I want to do something similar for the DUI relay, which I think I had in a dumb spot initially.
And where can I find that fancy non sticky vinyl wrap that the factory used? I'll end up using electrical tape probably. I kinda hate loom.
In the 65, how did the starter to solenoid cable run? Ive heard there are supposed to be brackets off the engine or engine mount? I think mine was just kinda strung over to the starter when I got it.
'65 Mustang Coupe, C4, DUI, CompCams 260, Addco 1", StreetOrTrack Front Bilstein Coilover System, Bilstein Rear Shocks, 4-1/2 leaf springs.

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Re: Happy New Year and New Suspension!!

Post #19 by 1966Mustang » Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm

Adding some images so I don't forget where this project is... It's currently buried in my garage... :bang:

ds-susp.png


rusty-sus.png


sus2.png


sus3.png


- Perry
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