1969 mustang suspension R&R

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69stang_250
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1969 mustang suspension R&R

Post #1 by 69stang_250 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:49 pm

Hey guys,

I have my car in the garage right now and am doing some looking at suspension upgrades and things.
What I am looking at doing is the following:
rebuild upper CA
replace lower CA (should I use the opentracker roller LCA)
roller perches
new coil springs ( What size should I use?)
UCA Shelby Drop
roller idler arm
rebuild steering with baer bump steer kit
1" sway bar
poly bushings

Should I go with adjustable strut rod?
or is the stock ok for street/strip use?

rear:
I am going to go with 4 1/2 leaf mid eye
poly bushings
and trying to keep the ride height I have now.

What shocks do you guys think I should use? I have heard stiff in the front and a little softer in the back works well, but I do not know.
are there any other things I should consider?

This is for a 80/20 street/strip car.

Thanks guys!
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, Summit 600 cfm VAC secondary carb. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.00 gears.

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bubba22349
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Re: 1969 mustang suspension R&R

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:47 pm

:thumbup: That is a Fairly good plan you have! I maybe would try to use those rollers LCA etc to lessen up the friction would help the front end rise. Stock front springs will work good for Drags though maybe set of GT 390 for street use. On stocks it's the oposite as you have stated so for the drags soft in front. Old timers used 90 / 10 or 80 / 20 or a set of worn out ones also works too, but none of these are ideal for street performance use but you could also swap them out when you go to the drags or look for adjustables. Rear a set of 50 / 50 heavy duty works well maybe a set of adjustables so you can change them at the track. For the street the old Koni stocks that were used on the GT350 are still a good option they might be a bit ruff riding though. Same on the front sway bar most drag cars didn't use them so you could try unbolting it at the track or remove links and tie the ends up. You probally will need to use a set of traction bars on the rear also. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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CoupeBoy
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Re: 1969 mustang suspension R&R

Post #3 by CoupeBoy » Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:24 pm

bubba, I think he meant the car usage would be 80% street and 20% track, not 80/20 shock valving.
16 years ago, I installed stock UCA and LCA from AutoZone, they are still working great, my wife put about 13,000-14,000 miles on the car each of the last 2 summers.
A few years back I noticed a crack in the passenger side shock tower, which necessitated pulling the motor. While it was out I used a hydraulic ram to push the shock towers back into position and to close the gap between the stock reinforcement plates and the shock towers, then my neighbor welded them together for me at the same time he welded up the crack.

At that time I also installed an aftermarket export brace (I bought the Monte Carlo brace, but never installed it). I also built and installed a set of rollerized spring perches using parts from DazeCars.com
Roller Spring Perch Kits and Supplies -- DazeCars.com
I bought the unfitted kit for $20.99 (plus shipping) and welded up my own set.
I also did the UCA lowering, although I did use the modified guidelines from DazeCars.com, I used his 'Increased caster drop' measurements to move the UCA bolts back 1/8"
1" UCA drop -- DazeCars.com

This is the thread where I covered the 2008 rebuild with pictures.
Mustang Upgrades this week (Month) -- FordSix Forum

Strut rods.. stock is ok, but I've had terrible luck with these. It always feels like the wheel is 'moving' when you back up and hit the brakes while turning or driving and braking into a turn, last year somehow my wife managed to crack a rubber bushing and we had an alignment problem. I have all the parts at home now to build my own set, I just need to finish them..

The 2015 issues that I had with the Strut Rods
1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild -- FordSix Forum

A couple things I didn't see on your list..
Sub Frame Connectors
Road Race Belly bar (ala Boss 302), it ties the LCA mount bolts together with the brace that runs under the engine.
I've heard that adding (screw or welding) in a steel rear seat divider reduces vehicle flexibility as well -- another thing for my list.
From now on all of my daily driven cars are going to get the shock towers welded together, and I'll start making my own Boss shock tower reinforcement kits to beef them up with a little more steel.
1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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bubba22349
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Re: 1969 mustang suspension R&R

Post #4 by bubba22349 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:34 pm

:thumbup: X2 that's an excellent point on straightening up the front spring towers and welding in the extra bracing AKA Boss 302 & 429's. X2 on the sub frame connecters, Monty Carlo bar, rear seat plate, and all other tips. I also did many of these on a few of my cars one was a 1965 fastback 2+2 (it had been wrecked on drivers side front corner) when the towers were all straightened up to factory spec, welded, along with adding the extra Boss plates. After the front end realigned it was then the very best handling of any Mustang I have ever had. CoupeBoy I was talking about were he said about having stiff stocks in the front and soft in the rear this won't really work well even for mostly street driving. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 1969 mustang suspension R&R

Post #5 by 69stang_250 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:26 pm

What do you guys think of the TCP or Viking coil overs for the front?
I wonder if it would be as free moving as the roller perch.
I will be installing SFC, but this will be a few months down the road and the rear seat devider.
Right now I have an export brace and I do want to install a Monte Carlo bar, but I do not know if the straight one fits or if I need the curved one.
Which strut rods would you guys suggest?
Also, I will be installing the caster kit from open tracker and the belly bar to connect the lower control arms.
One of the things I am stuck on is picking the right coil springs. There are so many that it's a little confusing to me.
I mean I like the stance of the car right now and I'm not sure if I should go with stock 6 cyl springs or if I should go with 620s or 600s or if I should get lowering springs.

If I could weld things up myself, I would be reinforcing the shock towers as well, but I'm limited to nuts and bolts right now.
Any good bolt on mods I will be up for doing right now.

Any other information or thoughts are welcome.

Thanks guys!
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, Summit 600 cfm VAC secondary carb. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.00 gears.

69stang_250
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Re: 1969 mustang suspension R&R

Post #6 by 69stang_250 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:26 pm

What do you guys think of the TCP or Viking coil overs for the front?
I wonder if it would be as free moving as the roller perch.
I will be installing SFC, but this will be a few months down the road and the rear seat devider.
Right now I have an export brace and I do want to install a Monte Carlo bar, but I do not know if the straight one fits or if I need the curved one.
Which strut rods would you guys suggest?
Also, I will be installing the caster kit from open tracker and the belly bar to connect the lower control arms.
One of the things I am stuck on is picking the right coil springs. There are so many that it's a little confusing to me.
I mean I like the stance of the car right now and I'm not sure if I should go with stock 6 cyl springs or if I should go with 620s or 600s or if I should get lowering springs.

If I could weld things up myself, I would be reinforcing the shock towers as well, but I'm limited to nuts and bolts right now.
Any good bolt on mods I will be up for doing right now.

Any other information or thoughts are welcome.

Thanks guys!
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, Summit 600 cfm VAC secondary carb. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.00 gears.

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bubba22349
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Re: 1969 mustang suspension R&R

Post #7 by bubba22349 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:42 pm

:hmmm: Yeah those coil over set ups are very nice if you don't mind the extra cost they might reduce some of the front end weight also. And that would be another plus in the handling department the closer you get to a 50 / 50 weight balance front to rear the better. On the Monte Carlo bar it all depends on the intake, carb, air cleaner combo if you can use a straight one or not usually the curved one works the best for a six powered car. They did make a curved one once just for the six'es don't know it they are still made or not. I was hoping to be able build a Falcon Wagon using the TCI weld in front and rear suspension kits don't know if will happen anytime soon or ever at this point. The great thing today is if you can afford it there are so many choices now for making these early Fords into really great handling cars. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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CoupeBoy
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Re: 1969 mustang suspension R&R

Post #8 by CoupeBoy » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:35 pm

i6 specific Monte Carlo bars, pictures courtesy of ludwig
Six Cylinder Monte Carlo Brace (with pictures) -- FordSix Forum

I think the coilovers are 'nice' because they clean up the packaging, but from what I've heard about springs is that the smaller the diameter the stiffer they get; AND with those prepackaged solutions you are 'stuck' with that shock forever, you can't swap out say if you like KYB GR vs GR2, or if you just need a shock, you can't order one from a local parts store.

Regarding mobility, is one as free moving as the other, I would say they should be very comparable, also comparable would be the early style spring perches with bronze bushings instead of rubber. Its the rubber that doesn't like to bend/twist. The other factor the shock base. Where the shock bolts to the spring perch, as the UCA cycles up/down the perch moves/rocks, but the shock base does not. If you look at OpenTracker's website you will see that he did invent some 'double bearing' spring perches that have a separate set of bearings for the shock base vs the spring perch.

Choosing springs is hard.
Ideally you'd want the lightest spring rate possible to maintain ride height, but they wear out faster. I don't know about '69 Mustangs, but '67/68 i6 springs were rated at 460lbs.
I could be wrong, but I think the standard small block v8 are 520lbs
People go with higher rated, typically GT rated at 680lbs because they stiffen up the front end and maintain ride height longer, at the sacrifice of ride quality.

There are at least a couple companies that make progressive rate springs, softer for the typical road, firmer when you really start leaning into it.

I have no experience using any of these, but they are on my list of things to research for future use.
Eibach 3561.120 1967-1970 Mustang/Cougar PRO-KIT Springs -- SpeedwayMotors.com $135.99
This one has the spring rates listed as well as a video embedded into the page.
Eibach Spring Pro-Kit Performance Front Pair Small Block V8 1967-1970 $124.99

That is just 2, there are many more.

The other thing about spring rates is that some people (OpenTracker -- John Dinkle included) have moved the spring perch mount bolts 1" farther out on the upper control arm.
The farther out toward the wheel the spring is mounted, the lower the spring rate you need to maintain ride height.
But it comes at a sacrifice of allowing wide wheels because the outer edge of the spring is now closer to the balljoint.

69stang_250
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Re: 1969 mustang suspension R&R

Post #9 by 69stang_250 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:00 pm

I think on this I am going to give the guys over at open tracker a call and see what they think. I have heard that they are good about not trying to sell you stuff you don't need.

One thing I was looking at and thought it was pretty cool, but not sure if it's worth the trouble or cost, is the staggared shocks out back.

All I'm really trying to do is find the mid ground for street and strip without putting too much crazy stuff on.
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, Summit 600 cfm VAC secondary carb. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.00 gears.

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Re: 1969 mustang suspension R&R

Post #10 by turbo2256b » Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:57 am

Out back I always ran the 68 competition / trunk mounted battery springs with a modified aftermarket rear hanger set up. FRONT HALF OF THE LEAFS clamped together, rear ends of he springs removed the clamps. Front suspension was set up as much as possible like the old 69/70 trans am cars. Nothing ever caught up with me in a corner uless it was a real large radius corner as I could only go around 90 top speed. Could easy go around a street corner around 60 at a traffic light. I had the tires to help 275 front 195 15s rear.

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Re: 1969 mustang suspension R&R

Post #11 by 69stang_250 » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:56 pm

So I ordered the full level 1 suspension kit from open tracker with bilsten shocks and their adjustable strut rods.
I am super happy with the stiffness of the shocks and quality of all the parts, however, there are a few things I am running into.

1. The coil springs I got do not sit flush against the spring stop on the perches. They do sit against it, but just the outside edge of the spring. Should I worry about this?

2. With the strut rods my and new 14" steering wheel my turning is 2 1/2 turns lock to lock. Before with the stock wheel and strut rods was I think 4 1/2 or 4 3/4 turns lock to lock. Is there a trick to get my turn radius back? is this common from what you guys know?

3. How many threads should be sticking out of the leaf spring u bolts when TQ'd down? The new ones I got only have 2 threads out of the nuts.

Thanks for the help guys!
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, Summit 600 cfm VAC secondary carb. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.00 gears.

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Re: 1969 mustang suspension R&R

Post #12 by CoupeBoy » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:10 am

I'm having trouble picturing the coil spring issue.

The lock to lock turn is controlled by your steering box not the strut rods.

And for the u-bolts. Any thread above the nut is good enough.
-ron

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Re: 1969 mustang suspension R&R

Post #13 by 69stang_250 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:01 am

I will have to take a picture and post it of the coil spring.

Well the wheels stop turning once the spindle hits the strut rod tang. There is no engine in the car now. Does the spindle clear the tang when weight is on the suspension?

Thanks
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, Summit 600 cfm VAC secondary carb. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.00 gears.

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Re: 1969 mustang suspension R&R

Post #14 by CoupeBoy » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:20 am

Ok gotcha now.
I am making my own strut rods based on measurements I got from another forum.
Your bent tab hits the little knob on the spindle.
image.jpeg

On mine if that happened I was planning on cutting it off and moving it inward. If it didn't touch I was going to either add a small piece of steel or drill and tap for a bolt and make it adjustable.

The spindle has to hit the tang for a positive steering stop.

However since yours are brand new. I'll call or email John @ opentracker

He would also be able to help you with the spring question, there may be known issues and resolutions.
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Re: 1969 mustang suspension R&R

Post #15 by 69stang_250 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:00 pm

So I have the steering figured out. There is no power train in the car right now, so I think that has a lot to do with the lack of turn radius right now. If it still has very little turning once the engine is in, I will address the issue.

The coil spring is not an issue. I just thought the end of the last coil was suppose to be flush against the perch tang, but it will be ok how it sits.

Thanks guys.
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, Summit 600 cfm VAC secondary carb. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.00 gears.

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