Intake update 7-23-07 & 8-23-07

Do you like the intake runners with ribs, or without?

  • With

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Without

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
  • Poll closed .

AzCoupe

1K+
Departed Member
Seems like this is taking forever, but they finally got the programming done for the new intakes. Hopefully I'll have some proto types in a couple more weeks, but who knows. I've learned that whatever I'm quoted for a timeline, needs to be doubled at best, and tripled in most cases. It frustrating, but not much I can do about it, as it seems to be a common standard in the industry. Especially when you use companies that are well known, or the best at what they do. They usually have more work than they can handle, so you just have to get in line and wait your turn.

Here's a cad pic of the new intake. They put ribs on the runners to give it a nostalgic look, but I don't know why they didn't put them on the 3rd and 4th runners? I made this a poll for you guys to vote on, as I'm not sure if I like them or not? The poll ends in five days, as I need to let them know ASAP so we don't hold up the intakes.
ford_6_cyl_intake_med.jpg


The carb opening is square so the carb adaptor can be turned 90 or 180 degrees. Example, if you’re running a 2V carb, you can mount it parallel to the crank, or perpendicular, depending on the application. I also asked them to move the injector pads closer to the flange for improved clearance.

Having the ability to turn the adaptor also allows the option of running a twin side draft Weber setup. On a V8 application, the carbs go out over the valve covers, but this won't work for an inline application due to shock tower clearance. However if the adaptor was turned 90 degrees, the carbs (or TBI's) would face fore and aft, making a killer setup with outstanding eye appeal (WOW factor).
IA120H.jpg
sidedraft.jpg


We will be offering adaptors for 2V and 4V carbs, and some sort of throttle body. The adaptors will be made from billet, or possibly some sort of plastic or phenolic material. I'll be getting quotes on them later this week. We left the floor flat, so we can do some testing on a flow bench and/or dyno, using ribbed bases (turtles). We found a shop that will do the testing and design custom turtles for us. Once we find out what works best, they can be added to the pattern for future castings if we chose. But I think I prefer inserts as we can use different turtles depending on the carb type and orientation. Here's a pic of a V8 turtle, just for reference.
.
MVC-004F4-282x190.jpg


We are also looking at modified carb adaptors with plenum tubes. For example, a 4V carb adaptor would have four individual tubes that extend into the plenum. The tubes are CNC machined on the adaptor base, each matching one of the throttle bores. The idea behind them is to isolate the carb from plenum turbulence, which inturn offers mid-range boost and is particularly effective at counteracting fuel standoff. The results include better throttle response, better fuel atomization, maintained intake velocity, and increases in the upper low-end, and midrange horsepower and torque.

I'm might run the twin TBI's on the 250ci I'm building for my 66 coupe. I was going to go with triple TBI's, but considering I already have triples on the 69, this would be something different, and a bit cheaper. Setting up the linkage and plumbing should be pretty easy. I'd really like to take it to Portland, but seriously doubt I can have it ready by mid August. The next race is in Sept, so I guess I'll shoot for that one. Even then, I probably won't have much time to test and tune, and work out the bugs
 
Mike, i know the polishers hate the ribs but the ribs add strenth to the runners, not much but does help.

Go for the ribs, they can easily be removed if someone likes the fully polished look.

Get this project going so you can sell some heads to me & other guys without an intake. Bill
 
Bill,

Believe me, I'm trying. Nobody wants to get this moving faster than yours truely. I've got a ton of money tied up in this and need to start recouping some of it. :D

Problem is using the best in the industry. They have tons of work and all of their customers want it yesterday. I've even offered double pay, but it does no good. They just take your money, and still take their time. ;)
 
I kinda like the ribs. However, the finished cast product will not look exactly like the rendering. The ribs look thin in the pic, this will possibly be a problem when casting the intakes. It would match the valve covers nicely. 8)

If it were me, I would nail it down as simply as possible. The owner can polish it, mill it, or whatever he decides. For me, it's what's on the inside that matters. 8)

It appears that you left out the flat spot on the runners where the Classic Inlines logo should be. Or will that be on the front of the plenum? :D
The pad should be thick enough, so a guy could mill it flat and have it personalised. For example: a certain yellow and black Mustang could have "STINGER" milled into it.
I can also see a blue Mustang with GEEZER on the intake. :LOL:

Seriously tho, if this intake is nice and thick like the head, we can modify it as needed after we get it.
 
Mike, I have to agree the ribs don't look bad. as far as the carb adaptor will the carb sit any higher than stock hight? the reason I ask that is because on the 69 Mustangs with the 250 we don't have much Hood clearnce and with the oz intake with adapter I only have about 2 3/4" from the top of the carb to the bottm of the hood.

Bill
 
Man I cant wait.... I have a Fogger and carb to mount to that intake...Just let us know when to drop the money...:)

Frank
 
I have a few stray thoughts to offer.

I know you are looking to have an adapter for a throttle body for folks who want to build an EFI setup. Just as a possible suggestion, how about setting it up to use something like the stock throttle bodies that were commonly found on the 5.0 liter Ford V8s used in Mustang GTs? The 5.0 V8 Mustang guys often swap up to larger throttle bodies, so I suspect there may be a bunch of the stock 5.0 throttle bodies floating around looking for homes and priced cheap. Furthermore parts for them (like the throttle position sensors and such) have got to be easy to find.

My guess is that for a 250 running the new head and an appropriate cam a stock throttle body off a 5.0 liter Mustang might turn out to be just about the right size, though on a 200 the 5.0 throttle body might be a wee bit too large.

This makes even more sense, however, for the intakes you'd be creating down the road to go with the new head for the Big Block Six. There's really no doubt in my mind that a 300 with a performance head and a mild cam could use a throttle body that big, and possibly even a bit larger, so the folks who wind up going that route with a 300 might just go with one of the larger aftermarket throttle bodies made to bolt onto the 5.0 intakes, which would, of course, also bolt right on to your adapter, perhaps after hogging out the opening a little.

Just a thought.

:)

Also, based on what you've said about the carb adapter plates, I was thinking that it might be a uiseful to set them up to be more or less compatible and interchangable with the standard adapters Clifford uses on their various "4-barrel" intakes, especially if you wind up making some models they don't or vice versa. It might save you the trouble of setting up an adapter for some of the less commonly used carbs, or allow you to sell adapters to Clifford intake users who want to use a carb or throttle body for which Clifford hasn't bothered to create an adapter yet.

:)

Oh, and the ribs could be cool, but such things are really a matter of personal taste. I'd be more interested in seeing mounting points for an EFI fuel rail, myself. I mean, it really doesn't do much good to have the bosses for the injectors unless there's mounting points for the fuel rail that's going to be used to feed them.

:)

Also, aren't injector bosses normally angled to point the injectors down the intake runner toward the intake valve? And, yeah, having them as close as possible to the flange would be a good thing. Also, for guys wanting to run EFI and Nitrous Oxide, a second set of bosses on the runners (if there's room) might be a welcome addition. That would save them from having to drill the bosses on their heads which would be nice for a guy who might want to swap to a different intake setup later.

:)

And one, last, off-the-wall thought -- How about an adapter plate to mount the GM Throttle Body Injection units used on some of their larger V6s or smaller V8s back in the early years of the EFI era? That could be a really easy way for a guy to bolt on a basic EFI system that didn't require him to have the injector bosses machined out to take injectors.

:)

Like I say, just a few stray thoughts.

:)
 
Stubby":j8uceafx said:
The ribs look thin in the pic, this will possibly be a problem when casting the intakes. It would match the valve covers nicely.
The ribs will match those on the valve covers, exactly. This is just a simple cad rendering to get the basic idea of what it will look like.

Billr57":j8uceafx said:
As far as the carb adaptor, will the carb sit any higher than stock hight? the reason I ask that is because on the 69 Mustangs with the 250 we don't have much Hood clearance and with the oz intake with adapter. I only have about 2 3/4" from the top of the carb to the bottm of the hood.
Actually, they should sit a little lower (approx 1/4"), providing a little extra clearance.

shmoozo":j8uceafx said:
I'd be more interested in seeing mounting points for an EFI fuel rail, myself. I mean, it really doesn't do much good to have the bosses for the injectors unless there's mounting points for the fuel rail that's going to be used to feed them.
In an effort to keep the intakes clean, our plan is to make custom brakets which will mount between the 1&2, 3&4, 5&6 runners, using longer manifold mounting bolts. This would allow for three stands, which would support a full length fuel rail.

Aren't injector bosses normally angled to point the injectors down the intake runner toward the intake valve?
Again, we kept the pads flat to keep the intake clean. The pads can be machined on an angle when the bosses are machined for the injectors (same goes for the cylinder head). Also, keeping the pads flat allows for us to make name plates that can be screwed to the pads (one fore, and one aft). The plates would be available with "Classic Inlines" or blank so the customer can put whatever he wants on them, such as "Powered by Ford". Either billet, or powder coated casted? Raised or recessed lettering? Not sure yet. Optionally, they could be screwed on the the cylinder head pads as well.

For guys wanting to run EFI and Nitrous Oxide, a second set of bosses on the runners (if there's room) might be a welcome addition. That would save them from having to drill the bosses on their heads which would be nice for a guy who might want to swap to a different intake setup later.
First, there isn't enough room. Secondly (correct me if I'm wrong) don't they make dual injectors for that very reason?

Our main goal is to keep the intakes clean and simple, as 80% of them will be used for carburation, rather than injection. I see no reason to clutter them up more than absolutely necessary, for the small percentage that will actually install injectors. Just my thoughts. ;)

If we do name plates, they would look something like this. Maybe a raised rib around the perimeter with raised lettering???
intakenameplates.jpg
 
Since it's been taking forever, I've had a brief chat with Neil at Matilda Foundry. I asked if they could simply do repops of the original:
Hi,Adam.

Anything from one to one hundred is fine.

We out source our pattern work. Cost of patterns is$50.00 hour

Aside from that - I'd like to see liquidated damages clauses in any future supply contracts. This time blowout is damaging to Classic Inlines as it's part of the "headline" product (no pun intended!).

The ribs look nice enough!

Cheers, Adam.
 
I like the ribs, but I'd like to see them added to #3 and #4 as well. I suspect they didn't put them in because there isn't enough room between the injector pad and the plenum for both ribs, judging by the picture.
 
AzCoupe":29si32wt said:
shmoozo":29si32wt said:
I'd be more interested in seeing mounting points for an EFI fuel rail, myself. I mean, it really doesn't do much good to have the bosses for the injectors unless there's mounting points for the fuel rail that's going to be used to feed them.
In an effort to keep the intakes clean, our plan is to make custom brakets which will mount between the 1&2, 3&4, 5&6 runners, using longer manifold mounting bolts. This would allow for three stands, which would support a full length fuel rail.

Okay, that should work just fine, yeah.

:)

AzCoupe":29si32wt said:
shmoozo":29si32wt said:
Aren't injector bosses normally angled to point the injectors down the intake runner toward the intake valve?
Again, we kept the pads flat to keep the intake clean. The pads can be machined on an angle when the bosses are machined for the injectors (same goes for the cylinder head). Also, keeping the pads flat allows for us to make name plates that can be screwed to the pads (one fore, and one aft). The plates would be available with "Classic Inlines" or blank so the customer can put whatever he wants on them, such as "Powered by Ford". Either billet, or powder coated casted? Raised or recessed lettering? Not sure yet. Optionally, they could be screwed on the the cylinder head pads as well.

I see your point, and I like the way you are thinking.

:)

AzCoupe":29si32wt said:
shmoozo":29si32wt said:
For guys wanting to run EFI and Nitrous Oxide, a second set of bosses on the runners (if there's room) might be a welcome addition. That would save them from having to drill the bosses on their heads which would be nice for a guy who might want to swap to a different intake setup later.
First, there isn't enough room. Secondly (correct me if I'm wrong) don't they make dual injectors for that very reason?

Okay, a lack of room kinda makes the request moot anyway. As for the dual injectors, I have no idea.

:)

AzCoupe":29si32wt said:
Our main goal is to keep the intakes clean and simple, as 80% of them will be used for carburation, rather than injection. I see no reason to clutter them up more than absolutely necessary, for the small percentage that will actually install injectors. Just my thoughts. ;)

You have good thoughts. Mine are questionable. Even I think so.

:)

AzCoupe":29si32wt said:
If we do name plates, they would look something like this. Maybe a raised rib around the perimeter with raised lettering???
intakenameplates.jpg

I like the idea of an oval shapped name plate with raised lettering with a raised rib around the perimeter. A customer could apply a coat of paint or powder coat and then sand off the coating from the raised lettering and perimeter rib to get a classic hot-rod look.

If you sell them individually folks could buy one that says "Powered by Ford" and one that says "Classic Inlines" and put one on the front intake runners and the other on the rear.

Or how about mounting points on a classic cast aluminum finned valve cover where 1 or more of these name plates could be attached?

Here's another random, stray thought.

Back in the day cars and engines and hot parts would be given cool-sounding names. Ford had the Boss 302, the Mach One, and the Cobra Jet. Chevy had the Mouse and the Rat. Mopar Hemi fans called their motors "elephants." Oldsmobile had "Rocket 88's."

With that sort of thing in mind, why not come up with a really cool-sounding marketing name for the new heads and stuff? You could make name plates with that name to go on the intakes or the heads.

Some initial thoughts for that:

The Peregrine (link HERE)
The American Kestrel (or perhaps just "The Kestrel") (link HERE)
The Gyrfalcon (an awkward name, but read up on them by clicking HERE and you'll see some cool stuff in the interesting facts at the bottom.)

Of these I think I like "The Kestrel" best, but I have a feeling there's even better names out there that people could find.

Just sticking with the birds of prey theme I've got going here there's a good link HERE to a web site with a lot of possibilities. I sort of went with the "falcons" theme for reasons which might or might not be obvious.

:)

A possible name for the new head for the big block six -- Percheron. It's the name of a common and well-respected breed of draft horse which might make sense for a cylinder head which would primarily be used on engines used in trucks. It's a name that projects an image of enormous pulling power.

Just another stray thought.

:)
 
The ribs look cool enough, I guess, but the first thing my practical eye saw was little nooks and crannies for spilled oil and dead bugs to collect in...
 
SuperMag":20b23554 said:
The ribs look cool enough, I guess, but the first thing my practical eye saw was little nooks and crannies for spilled oil and dead bugs to collect in...

Yeah, that's a good point. Those fins would make cleaning and detailing the intake a bit more work, to say the least.
 
How about making the runners spaced and flanged so you can discard the carby manifold and bolt up DCOE/ DHLA sidedraughts or an injection plenum....backspace? I assume if sidedraughts are possible there's room?

For injection, maybe a second, smaller boss for mounting a fuel rail bracket.
 
I'd suggest the reason there's no ribs on the short runners, is a lack of space considering the outer moulds will be in green sand. You'd risk it not pulling out cleanly after tamping around the pattern.

Using red sand (sets hard in the mould) for the exterior would give a finer finish, but probably add somewhat to the production cost.

Doesn't the head have a set of injector bosses already? That makes two per runner in my book.
 
Mike, i hope the carb mounting flange has the same angle as the carb flange on the log head so the carb will sit level when installed.

Please keep that in mind. Thanks Bill
 
XPC66":3rkj86sp said:
How about making the runners spaced and flanged so you can discard the carby manifold and bolt up DCOE/ DHLA sidedraughts or an injection plenum....backspace? I assume if sidedraughts are possible there's room?

For injection, maybe a second, smaller boss for mounting a fuel rail bracket.

Visit the Classic Inlines website and you will see what all is planned.
 
Back
Top