Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

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grendi_250ci
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Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #1 by grendi_250ci » Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:10 am

Now that i finaly got my new airbox, i would like to present you my car and engine

Specs:
1969 Ford Mustang with 250CID L-Code engine
0.03 overbore
flattop pistons

head:
ACH-250-BSH, chamber size 58cc

camshaft:
CSC 264-12 DHS

full roller rockers:
YTA-200-FRR

pushrods:
Trick Flow TFS-21409000

bearing: Clevite MS979P10, tri metal TM-77

carburator:
PCA-480-4SB

airlcleaner:
ProCharger AM006A-001, low profile plenum
Spectre Performance 9833, aircleaner box (SPP-RAF-ICF)
Spectre Performance 9741, black air ducting
Spectre Performance 8704, 3" hose clamps

aircleaner makeshift:
ProCharger AM006A-001, low profile plenum
Spectre Performance 8136, P4 cone air filter blue (SPP-RAI-CAF, tall, blue)
Spectre Performance 8771, 3" coupler with hose clamps (SPP-RAI-COU, black)
Spectre Performance 8429, 3" Aluminium 22 deg. elbow

headers:
Clifford Perfomance 53-2112, black ceramtic coated

linkage:
Lokar TC-1000HT36, throttle cable, cut to size
Lokar SRK-4000, mounting bracket an springs
Lokar KDP-20C4HT, kickdown cable C4

distributor:
DUI-200-CIK

Flexplate: TCI Auto 529615 (Performance Automatic PAX30213 DOES NOT FIT the stock torque converter)

Starter: Powermaster 9103


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we had to mill away the backside of the intake to clear the shock towers.

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the filter looked cool, but was way to high

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i had to get a makeshift because the spectre airbox was out of stock when the engine was finished.


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i finally got the airbox and could replace the open spectre airfilter witch is illegal in our country.
if you look at the hood, you can see a cutout. we had to make room for the plenum.

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Last edited by grendi_250ci on Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:50 am, edited 5 times in total.
'69 Mustang Hardtop L-Code CI modified, DUI, Cliffords Headers, CI 1.75" dual exhaust, Borgeson Power Stearing, CRSP Brakes :-D

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granadastraightsix
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Re: Project: Black Hole

Post #2 by granadastraightsix » Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:51 am

nice ride :thumbup:
1979 ford granada 250
1997 ford taurus sw 3.0L
1999 jeep grand cherokee 4.0L

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80broncoman
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Re: Project: Black Hole

Post #3 by 80broncoman » Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:07 am

looks real nice.
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When it come to engines If its .001 loose nobody knows, But if its .001 too tight EVERYBODY KNOWS!!
80 bronco FUV (farm utility vehicle)300 T-18 3.50s EFI head, offy C dual plenum, 500 edel carb, 1.7 roller rockers, Crane 260 cam EFI Exh

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AzCoupe
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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #4 by AzCoupe » Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:47 am

Very nice ride..... but how does it run?

Any plans to put it on a dyno?
Looking for Performance Parts, see Classic Inlines
Mike

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grendi_250ci
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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #5 by grendi_250ci » Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:37 am

i'm planing a dyno run, but first i might need to get a new ring and pinion for my 8" rear end.
currently i have 2.79:1 and i was planing on getting 3.25 - 3.55 because i want to get a AOD, maybe with wide ratio gears.
any advice? the car is only street driven.
'69 Mustang Hardtop L-Code CI modified, DUI, Cliffords Headers, CI 1.75" dual exhaust, Borgeson Power Stearing, CRSP Brakes :-D

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66200i6
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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #6 by 66200i6 » Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:14 am

Get the Dyno first. Make sure you’re tuned and use the torque data to decide on the gear ratio.

Good luck and let us know what you decide on ratio, Ric.
Ric Tucker
63' 2 Door 200 I6 (NEW)
66' Coupe 200 I6
66' F250 Camper Special
71' F100 Sport Custom

mkeily

Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #7 by mkeily » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:03 am

Yes I would be very keen to see the dyno figures on your rig.

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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #8 by mugsy » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:40 pm

Did I see a rank-n-pinon steering in your car? If so, can you give some details?
line 'em up, baby

Found over on Neons.org:
"whats a tranny tunnel?"
"total area is 142 cubic inches"

grendi_250ci
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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #9 by grendi_250ci » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:28 pm

Yes you did, it's the randall power rack and pinion.
everything is bolt in, no welding, no cutting on a 69 mustang, and it uses the original steering column without modification.

pros:
-no play
-precise steering possible
-no welding, no cutting
-looks like it could have been stock

cons:
-bigger turning radius
-you have to turn the wheels back to straight after making a turn.

most r&p share the same cons.
i just was at the sema show and flaming river claims, their new r&p has more travel then any other product on the market so the turning radius stays the same. i don't know if this is true, or just marketing BS, but their system need a new steering column that is apart of the kit.

would i buy it again?:
i would get an r&p again, but i'm not sure what product. a few new products have been release to the market, and some of the existing ones got better.
'69 Mustang Hardtop L-Code CI modified, DUI, Cliffords Headers, CI 1.75" dual exhaust, Borgeson Power Stearing, CRSP Brakes :-D

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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #10 by mugsy » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:28 pm

Well the R&P would replace a POS Flaming River box. I bought it new at NPD and the steering changed absolutely ZERO. The car had/has just a huge amount of play in it. I had already replaced all the other linkages and what not. I got it aligned this summer at this place that has an outstanding reputation for alignment work. The tech told me as I picked up my car that he had noticed all the new steering components along with the Granada disc brakes. He then asked why I didn't replace the steering box to make my steering right and said the box was a "piece of junk". I told him it was a FR and it had less than 3K miles on it. He just shook his head and said, "WOW!". So I doubt I'll buy Flaming River sh!t again.

Thanks for the heads up on the R&P issues. One of my pet peeves is loose/wandering steering; and the Mustang's drives me nuts. I had heard that the R&P kits increase the turning radius but I didn't know if it was noticeable. Sounds like it is. And the fact that it doesn't return to center is surprising too. That's definitely not good. Does it fail to return because it's a power unit? I'm sticking with manual BTW.
line 'em up, baby



Found over on Neons.org:

"whats a tranny tunnel?"

"total area is 142 cubic inches"

grendi_250ci
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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #11 by grendi_250ci » Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:07 am

the turning radius is only an issue if you have tight parking spaces.
turning back the wheels manually is no big problem, but as far as i know, not related to power or manual.

the play of some steering boxes can be adjustet. did you try to readjust the play of your flaming river steering box?
you won't end up with zero play, but it might get you to a point where it's acceptable.
'69 Mustang Hardtop L-Code CI modified, DUI, Cliffords Headers, CI 1.75" dual exhaust, Borgeson Power Stearing, CRSP Brakes :-D

mugsy
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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #12 by mugsy » Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:51 am

Yup, did all kinds of adjustments. It never helped really. I tried to loosen the jam nut and tighten the screw either a 1/16 or 1/8 turn at a time. Nothing changed really. I even over tightened it once but quickly backed it off so not to damage the internals. Oh well.

Good to know about the return issue. I have Granada wheels on the front and I don't know if the added weight and contact patch would negatively effect the steering. Personally the turning radius is too large for the size car in my opinion. I have a '68 Pontiac Catalina (B-body) and it has a tighter turning radius. Have you had any issues with the larger turning radius such as trying to park in parking lots or public garages?
line 'em up, baby



Found over on Neons.org:

"whats a tranny tunnel?"

"total area is 142 cubic inches"

grendi_250ci
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:56 am

Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #13 by grendi_250ci » Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:17 pm

sure i had parking issues, but i live in switzerland, most parking spaces are tighter, but most of the time i can handle them.
'69 Mustang Hardtop L-Code CI modified, DUI, Cliffords Headers, CI 1.75" dual exhaust, Borgeson Power Stearing, CRSP Brakes :-D

mugsy
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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #14 by mugsy » Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:29 pm

Yeah, I've been to Paris, Frankfort, Cologne, Freiburg... parking it an issue in Europe.
line 'em up, baby



Found over on Neons.org:

"whats a tranny tunnel?"

"total area is 142 cubic inches"

grendi_250ci
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:56 am

Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #15 by grendi_250ci » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:07 am

beeing unhappy with the performance, i got a new duals 1.75" exhaust from CI:
Image
the first impression is great, unfortunatly, i only could do a short testdrive before the winterbreak.

more info will follow in spring :-)
'69 Mustang Hardtop L-Code CI modified, DUI, Cliffords Headers, CI 1.75" dual exhaust, Borgeson Power Stearing, CRSP Brakes :-D

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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #16 by bubba22349 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:13 pm

Looks real clean on install! Very nice :nod: :thumbup:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #17 by Billr57 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:51 pm

SWEET!!! :beer:
1969 Mustang 250ci, Bored .030 Over, Decked +.010, Balanced, Holley 600cfm, T-5, D.U.I, 8.5mm Wires, FSPP Header, 2 1/4" Exhaust, Flowmaster 40, 5 Leaf Springs, 3.80 8" Ford Trac-Lok, Auto -Meter Gauges, CSRP Frt.Disk Brakes, Holley Electric Fuel Pump, Custom 9qt Oil Pan w/ Windage Tray, ARP Rod, Main & Head Studs, Classic Inlines Aluminum Head, Chamber Size 56cc, 274(110*)Cam

grendi_250ci
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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #18 by grendi_250ci » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:26 am

yeah, but getting this clean look was a lot of work, it didn't fit out of the box.
'69 Mustang Hardtop L-Code CI modified, DUI, Cliffords Headers, CI 1.75" dual exhaust, Borgeson Power Stearing, CRSP Brakes :-D

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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #19 by 0321bubba » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:17 am

So have you had that beautiful Machine out and on the road? How does it handle and what is the performance like? That is a sweet ride!
0321Bubba
1972 Mustang Coupe / 250ci 1V

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AzCoupe
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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #20 by AzCoupe » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:22 pm

Your kit was one of the first ones made for a 69 Mustang. Unfortunately they didn't have a car to do an actual install on, so they had to use measurements from a V8 and guess at the modifications needed for the six. We rarely get any feedback from customers, so we have no idea what modifications are needed for a better fit. If you could send me an email with any of the details you remember about the install (modifications you had to make), I will forward the info to them. I'm sure it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks....
Looking for Performance Parts, see Classic Inlines
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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #21 by grendi_250ci » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:18 pm

AzCoupe wrote:Your kit was one of the first ones made for a 69 Mustang. Unfortunately they didn't have a car to do an actual install on, so they had to use measurements from a V8 and guess at the modifications needed for the six. We rarely get any feedback from customers, so we have no idea what modifications are needed for a better fit. If you could send me an email with any of the details you remember about the install (modifications you had to make), I will forward the info to them. I'm sure it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks....


Image
well, if they had simply put together the pipe once, they would have noticed that the angle of the x-pipe is wrong.
(the red line is showing the original fit out of the box)

of course we could not correct the angle of the x-pipe, so we had to rebend the pipe that came after the x-pipe and try to get the pipes as parallel as possible.
this was not 100% possible (see lenght of green and yellow line) but i'm happy with the result.
'69 Mustang Hardtop L-Code CI modified, DUI, Cliffords Headers, CI 1.75" dual exhaust, Borgeson Power Stearing, CRSP Brakes :-D

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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #22 by MPGmustang » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:35 pm

I love your car... and engine... and steering... and exhaust... and ... okay your car.
65mustang-SOLD-200ci-t5-scarebird disks-vintage air ac-264/274 110 cam-mav 8inch 3.8 open-350cfm-CI headers
66 Bronco-SOLD-i6 170 - rust bucket never ran...
75 bronco-SOLD-v8 c4 dana 20 33's and disk brakes, locker front/rear.

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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #23 by AzCoupe » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:23 pm

Thanks Grendi.... I'll let them know.
Looking for Performance Parts, see Classic Inlines
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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #24 by grendi_250ci » Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:58 pm

MPGmustang wrote:I love your car... and engine... and steering... and exhaust... and ... okay your car.

..... i changed the steering to manual stock with borgeson powersteering box.

the steering is not 100% free from play at the moment, but i got a much better turning radius and the car still handles very well.
if you should make it to switzerland, let me know and well take it for a ride if the weather is nice :beer:

@azcoupe: with the dual 1.75" exhaust i got way more power then i had with the dual 2.25 exhaust
....and i can drive more then 20min without getting a headache from the exhaust drone :D :D :D
'69 Mustang Hardtop L-Code CI modified, DUI, Cliffords Headers, CI 1.75" dual exhaust, Borgeson Power Stearing, CRSP Brakes :-D

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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #25 by 65-coupe » Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:50 pm

I had they same problem with my 65 Mustang. I contacted Mike and he had them send me another x pipe. The first one had the pipes cross over each other. The second one worked but still needed to be made wider. I was able to get it all the fit and work after fitting it a few times. I used the band clamps so that I can adjust it as needed.
1965 Mustang coupe, Poppy red with black interior, I6, DUI, CI alum head ported, 264/264 110 Clay Smith cam, 1.65 roller rockers, Autolite 2100 300CFM, Lokar pedals and throttle calbe, Spectre air intake. Shelby mod to front suspension, CI headers stainless with Jet-Hot ceramic coating, CI Stainless 2" impostor dual exhaust, 17x8 Coys C-67 wheels,

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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #26 by 65HT200FIN » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:52 am

Nice car&engine :) what kind off idle you have? i have Ford Six Performance Parts 274-SDS cam (by Clay Smith Cams)
duration 274/274 advertised, 224/224 @ .050 lift and very very boor idle! HG 5-7. You have CSC 264-12 DHS. What your idle HG? and throttle responding?

My stang homepage ----> http://ramiharvonen.wix.com/vintage#!home/mainPage

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AzCoupe
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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #27 by AzCoupe » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:17 pm

65HT200FIN wrote:Nice car&engine :) what kind off idle you have? i have Ford Six Performance Parts 274-SDS cam (by Clay Smith Cams)
duration 274/274 advertised, 224/224 @ .050 lift and very very boor idle! HG 5-7. You have CSC 264-12 DHS. What your idle HG? and throttle responding?

My stang homepage ----> http://ramiharvonen.wix.com/vintage#!home/mainPage


Manifold vacuum seems low... did you degree the cam when you installed it? I'd almost bet your cam timing is off, based on the symptoms (low man vac, poor idle and throttle response).
Looking for Performance Parts, see Classic Inlines
Mike

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65HT200FIN
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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #28 by 65HT200FIN » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:23 am

AzCoupe wrote:
65HT200FIN wrote:Nice car&engine :) what kind off idle you have? i have Ford Six Performance Parts 274-SDS cam (by Clay Smith Cams)
duration 274/274 advertised, 224/224 @ .050 lift and very very boor idle! HG 5-7. You have CSC 264-12 DHS. What your idle HG? and throttle responding?

My stang homepage ----> http://ramiharvonen.wix.com/vintage#!home/mainPage


Manifold vacuum seems low... did you degree the cam when you installed it? I'd almost bet your cam timing is off, based on the symptoms (low man vac, poor idle and throttle response).


Thanks :) I must check cam timing.

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Re: Project: Black Hole (1969 Mustang, 250CID)

Post #29 by grendi_250ci » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:38 am

sorry, i didn't check the board for some time.
i can give you the info in spring. but i have to install a few parts first, like the tachometer and another vacuum meter.
'69 Mustang Hardtop L-Code CI modified, DUI, Cliffords Headers, CI 1.75" dual exhaust, Borgeson Power Stearing, CRSP Brakes :-D

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