200 Log Head

I have decided once and for all what i am doing with a head on my 200, i am going old school meets new school. My original head will have the log manifold machined off, then we will get the porting done, either a early Hilborn injection manifold or somehow copy one, then adapt efi to the system, i am hoping to relive a boyhood dream and have the trumpets angled out the bonnet. Its going to look mechanical, a sixties look, but dont think i could pill it for street use. I am trying to find articles etc for doing tis, i have a few pictures and i am buying an old Hot Rod magazine from the sixties which had articles on hot ford sixes before the 200 came out. I have tried joining the flatlander racing site as a guy there had the exact setup i am after. On registering it comes up i haven’t answered everything (DOH) If anyone is a member of Flatlander let me know. So any info will be highly regarded, i will try to get another log head to dissect/measure before i do my original head, will be epic

See http://www.mustangmonthly.com/techartic ... to_21.html



http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/show ... &showall=1

And the solution is not Flat landers, but the Mopar guys at the Slant Six forum. They will help you out.

See http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/show ... ?p=9039647

There are a few options. Seeing a particualr Aussie Street machine blue FE Holden with 186 mechanical injected Red motor makes me think you'd be better off seeking local Aussie advice. The street use of the old race continous feed set up requires networking, and the Aussie or US guys who use the orignal set up are very smart and helpfull.

If non Electronic street set up is desired, you can use the Peugoet 504/BMW M1 Kuglefisher or Triumph PI Lucas system basics. Or alter it to use Mercedes Benz 2.8 or early Pre LE and LH Bosch K Jetronic sequential metering pump which will allow you to avoid using and air vane or oxygen sensor.

Going electronic requires a means of throttle position sensing, mapping an equivalent air vane value, or Maniofold Absolute pressure or speed density system, or pre defined lookups with out each. The guys who do EFI Hilborne set ups are best to talk to.The early leaded fuel Aussie market 1985 to June 1986 pre oxygen sensor Mitsubishi Karmen Vortex eddy wave measurement used in the twin injector 150 hp Sirius 1800 Cordia Turbo and 168 hp 2000 cc Starion Turbo is also a very sound system which might get you electronic metering without too much effort. The set up would allow you to have the bellmouths to be open to air. A Delco P4 from a Holden XT6 Electronic Injection uses air vane, the later ones are feedback O2 sensor.

It can be done, with a fair amount of ease if you network


If you want to start real quick, just get six motorcylce RC40 flatsides from a Suzuki GSX 600, an intake modification, and get it inspected for street use, then use that as your backup. An EFI version would then be a simple test and tune from there You'd always have a fall back, and Jack Collins has proven that they can be tuned. Its not easy, but you'd get a stable fuel delivery curve to base the EFI stuff on, and you'd be into the 260 to 300 hp mark with the right cam, compression and headwork without too much cost.

You've no doubt seen this too. Stock XK 170 block and our engines early head casting rework to suit a long branch intake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QTgb4knAuI

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=67003&p=531324#p531324

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/show ... &showall=1


See http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/atta ... 1373080237

It was Land Racing where i saw the add, algon injection, joe hunt magneto and maybe a 2V head but picture looks to predate this, i thought for 1750 US plus shipping, thats not to bad, even if dont use and put in car, it may go in a FED that me and a mate may be building, thanks mate, yeah i got the wrong forum name, my bad, i have that picture and a few others. many thanks for info, the triples over the rocker cover looked neat, hadnt seen that one, i am on jalopy journal a bit, cant seem to register for this other forum land racing, not sure if anyone else can and give me a heads up, i emailed the owner, for the parts and exclusitivity it would be a neat engine to own, and maybe new fab would bring about a new engine, if it was for the potential dragster build, i would just stay with mechanical injection, mag etc. I saw a set up yesterday on a holden six at a car show, he had the whole mech injection look, was inline porn. If this engine is not available i will keep looking and start talking bike carbs maybe.

That Falcon was flying in that video, bloody awesome.

this thread is so sweet. makes me want a 200 just so i can do dumb stuff like machining off intake manifolds and other questionable machining nonsense.

elaborate mate, what is dumb about wanting to get the best out of something, maybe stick to having a cup of tea

the 1969 to 1975 heads are fine to rework.

Here is one from Youtube http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... I6head.png

You keep the exhast, and just focus on the intake profiles, and make it easy, not hard.

It lookes like you've killed it with a grinder when its first done, like Mr Comet's and FALCONAROUND, but after a trim up, it allows the best intake around

http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b52 ... 5-orig.jpg



You can make more power with a nice cut off log and a close to high ported head than anything else. I've got a 6-bbl kit I'm working on, with three 350 cfm carbs grouped together. So it doens't have to be exotic.


As for why we;ve not done any sixes...

Nothing to do since 1962...it was the AC Cobra era, and the Shelby modified AC killed the 170 HP Raymond Mays Zephyr six with its stock 164 and 195 snd 271 hp 260's and 289's. Then after the FE 427, the GT40 289 and Boss 302 sort of cemented the feet of any I6 illusions of granduer.

brothers, we forgot our names, we forgot it on the wall paying tick tac toe....

More to the point, as soon as people in the USA started having so much fun with Windsor 289's, Boss 302 and 351's and especially, those fearsome FE and Limas, no-one did any of that kewl stuff to there Ford sixes again except for Ak Millar and Bruce Sizemore and the Mad Frenchman...it was a dead poets society. 4 and 2-bbl standard cost control small and big blocks were the new fun.

The Aussies did all that hackmiester indendent runner Duggan/Irving/ Dave Dyno Benett stuff right as the huge inflation of post 1973 living just drove the high powered street sedans movement to the speedway, and the cash strapped Argentinians just shoved low drag body kits on there 60's and 70's Valiants, Falcons, Commodores and Torinos, and used 2-bbl carbs and 3 to 4 liter sixes as 350 to 400 hp power houses. The Duggan head would make 370 hp on 202.

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... 2099-1.jpg

The missing link was when the guys in the US in about 1997 after the last shutdown, started hacking up log heads and slapping 250's into Foxes and 300's in to Falcons. Its taken about 60 years for people to get back towards the health of the Hudson Hornet era, were sixes and not eights, were the weapon of choice. But the Hot One ended that, and a time of great production 200 to 430 hp small and big blocks romped in the sun. Hey, I love the V8's but if little iron I6's in fat 2600 to 3800 pound Fords can run flat 10's without a hair dryer, I haven't seen them. The movement has died, but this effort might spike it up again.

xrwagon":3i60qhdn said:

elaborate mate, what is dumb about wanting to get the best out of something, maybe stick to having a cup of tea

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ha ha, I was of course being glib. no offense.

dumb meaning that you spend twice the money and 30 times the work to get half the benefit of just slapping in a small block. dumb meaning you flaunt conventional logic in favor of pursuing something radical. dumb meaning a brand new toyota camry has 280 horsepower, air conditioning and will go 300,000 miles easy with not much more than an oil change, and the car payments are probably less than you spend on zip ties and radiator hose clamps every month.

we wouldn't be on this forum if we weren't all a little 'dumb', that is the whole point. trying to live in the golden age of performance where Ak Miller and Smokey Yunick were pushing the envelope and trying crazy stuff that you didn't need a 20,000 dollar software package and a PhD to do.

if we were 'smart' we'd all be driving Camry's and watching reality TV and eating potato chips rather than laying on our back at 9 pm covered in gear oil trying to get something fixed in the dark so we can drive to work the next day.

This is as 'dumb' as i've gotten so far with my Big 6, but the turbo i've got planned is going to be so retarded, its gonna need a helmet.

xctasy":3ujqtn3i said:

The movement has died, but this effort might spike it up again.

Click to expand...

i think its coming back with guys like me because we see the previous generation's handiwork of cookie cutter hot rod SBC's and couldn't care less. the 90's overdone $100k+ show rods burned up any possible creative expression left in the '32 ford with a Smallblock paradigm and we're sick of it.

there's always going to be guys with more money than brains who want those kinda cars, and the market will follow them, but the innovators are looking for something else. you're going to see sixes in these cars, rat rods with clear coated patina, forgotten brands like AMC, nash, etc. I could give a $hit about a camaro, mustang, vette.. a rambler wagon, now that is cool! opel cadet, corvair, falcon... heck i've had 3 friends build S10's with 383's in the last couple years because they can't find anything else with a ladder frame cheap for drag racing.

the only reason i'm even able to post on this board is because i got a '68 F100 short bed for $800... the same reason my dad was driving a '67 mustang when he was my age. Hot rods are built out of cars that cost less than one paycheck, if you pay more than that you probably can't afford to get radical and cut it up.

When Hot Rod May 1960 Had three modded 144 inlines on the front it was the thing young mans dreams are made of, one injected, one blown with triples and one with triples, until i see a awe inspiring Camry on the front cover of Hot Rod i will be dumb for long time.

motzingg":3cbdfg6a said:

i think its coming back with guys like me because we see the previous generation's handiwork of cookie cutter hot rod SBC's and couldn't care less. the 90's overdone $100k+ show rods burned up any possible creative expression left in the '32 ford with a Smallblock paradigm and we're sick of it.

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OUCH! I like my roadster!

Actually the trick to building a fun 32 is to NOT overdo it. 600hp blown big blocks are fun to build and neat to look at, but cannot be driven. OTOH, stuff like my stock 200hp, 2bbl, 307 can start up, go to the store, cruise all day, drive 80mph, and do burnouts for as long as you want to hold the pedal down. And gets 25mpg in the process.

On the log head, I really ran into a wall eventually. There is only so much you can do and even cutting off the log and the exhaust ports leaves you with some compromises. That's why it floored me to see that simply bolting on an Aussie 2V head was worth 35 hp on a 200 with no other changes.

I think if I were to pursue another iteration of the log, I would:
-install slightly larger exhaust valves;
-cut down or even eliminate the guide in the ports;
-install tapered brass valve guides;
-pocket port intake and exhaust with lots of attention to the short side;
-three angle seats and backcut the valves
-use a direct 350cfm 2bbl or a pair of HS6 SU sidedrafts.
-shorty dual headers.

With a 264 to 274 duration cam, the above will get you to about 75-80% of the potential of the head at a reasonable cost and you will bump the power to about 150hp. The next 10% improvement will cost as much, and the next 5% will be double all that. Diminishing returns, indeed.

Of course, you need to address compression, ignition, etc. I would certainly get as much quench as I could, keep the CR under 10:1, and probably use an EDIS/Megajolt DIS ignition.

Jack, I love all your builds, your son's MG with the Focus motor is my idea of the greatest daily driver ever.

I've never driven a deuce before, let alone owned one, I bet they are a blast, but for my projects I like stuff that still needs to be figured out. You can buy almost every part for one of those re-pop and plenty of people making billet everything for them. Where is the excuse to go into the garage and come up with your own wacky thing, if 1000 aftermarket suppliers have already figured it out and done it better.

It's certainly easy enough to build a catalog car these days.

But this was no kit. Mine was built from scratch and fabricating and assembling it took the better part of nine months of full time head-scratching and welding to put it together.

got me up nights this, i found another cut off log with a triple weber manifold attached, bloke wants big bucks for it and it doesn’t come with carbies, he also has a 2V head and standard manifold, i am a patient man, plenty more i am doing to the car in the meantime that needs doing and upgrading for any motor down the track. I was bummed i missed the other log head with triple su’s.