Moats Quarter horse

Moderator: Mod Squad

Wesman07
Registered User
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:00 am

Moats Quarter horse

Post #1 by Wesman07 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:36 am

I have been looking into a MS setup, but starting to think that I don't need to start from scratch. I have a basically stock 300 in my truck now and planning on a mild build (about 200hp). I should just need to log and adjust the fuel table.

So, does anyone have any first hand experience with a moats quarter horse or similar type set up?
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

User avatar
xctasy
VIP Member
Posts: 6416
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:40 am
Location: PO Box 7072 Dunedin 9011,South Island, NEW ZEALAND
Contact:

Re: Moats Quarter horse

Post #2 by xctasy » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:59 pm

I cope with either, although I'm not a devotee of EFI per see. I've dealt with data logging and pulling info out of US ECM's and computers since 1987, so its all very easy for me.


The MeqaSquirt, Ford EECIV or EECV dabate, or Haltech or whatever, its all just protocols and language, and people who do one and can then do the other.

I like EECIV, but the DIY Tune back-up is very good. EECIV, its bitchy, and needs a lot of working aroundthe corners Ford put in place to ensure people didn't rip into it.


But Yes. QH works. In your case, you need to have a spare 4.9 EECIV of the same or similar box code if the system falls over, but Speed Desnity has been cracked, and you have many options open.


In the US, the sad fact is that despite the amount of F truck and E van 4.9's out there no one has cracked and sold an in line six 4.9 EECIV or OBDII EECV chip or reflash...it's as if there is none in the US who can even add and see how huge the market is.


Yet ding bats will try and sell you 2-bbl aftermarket EFI.....


Since the 1987-1997 4.9 Big Six and all the German 4.0 Cologne V6's (1990-2011 OHV/SOHC) and 4.0 OHC/DOHC 1988-2016 engines were US EEC computers, you'd think that would be an easy swap for a US 4.9.

The normal approach down here is to use a Speed Density 4 liter OHC Falcon EECIV computer, enliven the J3 port wit the replacment ECM chip, and then your able to use the Moates system to trim the fuel and ignition tables.

https://www.tiperformance.com.au/

https://www.tiperformance.com.au/produc ... ps-tuning/


If I was in the USA, I'd use MS3, and import the 5.0 A9L fuel tables.

If you don't want to do that, then ask Moates to track down the mapped Speed Density 5.0 1986-1988 Computer, and have the J3 port and SD mapped.


Box Code starts with DC from 1986 5.0 V8 Mustangs.

The constants in the defintion have to be changed, the injectors and firing order set up correctly, but its not at all hard when so much of the stuff is 99% the same.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... ost1855950
svocapri wrote:I tuned an 87 speed density with a Moats Quarterhorse for my Dad a number of years back and he is still driving it weekly today. The car has a Comp Cams Xe264 with 112 degree lobe separation. It also has AFR 164 heads, a ported Explorer intake, and Ford Racking 47pph injectors. The car runs and idles smooth.

As for tuning, I added timing down low to compensate for the bigger cam and I had to pull fuel in the lower RPM higher load areas of the fuel map to compensate for the lower vacuum at idle and just off idle. The only problem is that when shifting from drive to reverse or vice versa, the sudden loss of load on the engine when passing through neutral causes it to overshoot the idle speed target and close the IAC motor and pull timing just as the transmission is engaging and the engine stalls. This car has a factory stall converter and I suspect a slightly higher stall speed would prevent this, but a brief pause in neutral when shifting from reverse is all it takes to keep it running.

I forgot to mention, I had SailorBob on the EEC Tuning board generate the Definition file necessary for Binary Editor to be able to modify the Strategy that was in the ECU. I believe the catch code on that speed density automatic computer was DC.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

User avatar
xctasy
VIP Member
Posts: 6416
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:40 am
Location: PO Box 7072 Dunedin 9011,South Island, NEW ZEALAND
Contact:

Re: Moats Quarter horse

Post #3 by xctasy » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:46 pm

Speed Density and Ford In line sixes have an issue with falling off line when the Speed Density Alpha N system falls out of range. EECIV stalls in a natural course have always been common because of earthing, sensor and ECM age in the Capacitors. The KOEO, KEOR, and DTC codes via the pre OBD port are so easy to read and give all the information. If it doesn't pull codes, then there is a basic earthing problem, nearly always.


Low rpm stalls, or the system cutting out 5 to 25 minutes after starting is a wiring issue. If its cammed up, sometimnes SD EECIV can be a little akward. But there are a raft of very clever FoMoCo work-arounds.

Eg. The Port EFI 5.0 LSC Linclon automatics had a sensor input to fix its sub 6mph operation with an AOD trans, by polling the speeds VR sensor pulse. People are just not aware of how smart a bunch of FoMoCo engineers who talk to each other and live and breath 5liter engines actuially are.

The 5.0 Speed Density cars, especially with E303 cams or whatever mods put in them, had issues with stalling. But that is it. The Auto and Manual calibration exists for each, and you can work around that.


Only issue I see is that if you have, say, a Mazda 5 speed with its very tall reverse gear, you might have to spend a little time making sure the DC code Speed Density algorithm supplies enough low rpm resolution to reverse when the truck is loaded. If its automatic, then you'll probably be okay.

The solution is Tip In, whic was described above, and which Jack Collins (Mustang 6) described in his MegaSquirt and Mega Jolt discussions on his sons MGB GT with Ztec engine.


The EFI sections of this forum are silent, but pepople are using and viewing the information. The MS room was set up for this, yet few have indugled in the rewarding process of enjoying a 4.9 with a little more spunk than it was born with.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

Wesman07
Registered User
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:00 am

Re: Moats Quarter horse

Post #4 by Wesman07 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:21 am

Your right... as I was reading your post it it sparked a memeory that I had emailed them about a year ago. Tech support at moats said

"There is no support for your ECM.

There is not an easy direct match for another ECM set to run your engine. Any conversions are going to require a lot of work because they're likely intended for a different engine that is in your truck.

If you just want to tinker a little, you're looking at a LOT of work. Unfortunately, your truck isn't on the 'easy' list. :(

thanks,
Dave Blundell
Moates.net tech support
Have you visited our Support Site, http://support.moates.net ?"
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

Wesman07
Registered User
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:00 am

Re: Moats Quarter horse

Post #5 by Wesman07 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:33 am

Ok so this is all making sense now. The cost is about the same 500-800 to use moats, and 900 for the stinger pimp x set up which is pretty much a plug and play and uses ms3.

I would imagine ms3 is easier to use. I just wonder how much am I giving up when ditching the stock Ecu? You gave a pretty good example of some hurdles that folks smarter than my self have already thought about.
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

Wesman07
Registered User
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:00 am

Re: Moats Quarter horse

Post #6 by Wesman07 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:33 pm

This was one of the options I was looking into

http://www.stinger-performance.com/universalparts.html
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

86f250straight6
Registered User
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:01 am

Re: Moats Quarter horse

Post #7 by 86f250straight6 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:34 am

Maybe im a little late to this convo, but after reading I thought I'd pitch in what I discussed with moates last year. I spent almost an hour on the phone, just to find out that none of the sd 4.9 strategys are supported. However he said the best option would be to use a 6cyl mustang ecm and harness, which would allow to utilise newer injectors, MAF, and theyre easily found at the junkyard for nextto nothing. Im going to experiment with this route by the end of the year if I find time to tinker
I'm trying to build a truck that I can't break :bang:

Wesman07
Registered User
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:00 am

Re: Moats Quarter horse

Post #8 by Wesman07 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:54 pm

Did you buy all the stuff?
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

86f250straight6
Registered User
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:01 am

Re: Moats Quarter horse

Post #9 by 86f250straight6 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:42 pm

Not yet, Im looking to buy another efi 300 in the next few weeks to overhaul, then build the harness and get it running on the stand. Its starting to sink in that its going to be alot of work to change the parameters from v6 to i6 and make it run, let alone tune it to drive down the road. So Id rather have it running on the stand and play with things a bit first to see if it can be made to work. The truck that I want to put it on has to be somewhat dependable. Im hoping slightly better technology will allow me to start modifying beyond what the SD is capable of and still maintain stock looks and driveability
I'm trying to build a truck that I can't break :bang:

Wesman07
Registered User
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:00 am

Re: Moats Quarter horse

Post #10 by Wesman07 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:08 pm

You may want to consider this
http://www.stinger-performance.com/universalparts.html

You'll end up spending about the same, You can do more with it and it has an auto tune feature.
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

n8in8or
Registered User
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:40 pm

Re: Moats Quarter horse

Post #11 by n8in8or » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:14 pm

I am interested in exploring Quarterhorse as well, but for a slightly different reason. I’m doing a turbo build with an E4OD, so I’m looking for a tuning solution that will also allow me to tune the trans. I’m trying to do this with minimal investment, so I don’t want to invest in both an engine computer and a separate transmission computer. I’ve seen enough info to make me think that a V8 F-series speed density computer can be used to run a 6 cylinder and that you can also adjust shifting parameters for the trans, but I don’t know the particulars.....yet. This morning I started a topic on this over at eectuning.org, but I don’t have any responses yet - hopefully I am able to get the info I need to explore this. I decided to look in this section to see if anybody here had experience with QH and this was the first one I came across. It’s unfortunate the answers you received from Moates, I have seen some info come from Tweecer so maybe that info can be used with QH? If I get some good info over at eectuning I’ll start a new thread here. It would be nice to have an inexpensive fuel injection solution for the 300.
1994 F150 4x4, 4.9 E4OD. EFI turbo build in progress....

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest