300 EFI on 200

blakphi

New member
All,

Has anyone looked at using 300 EFI for a 200? The firing order is the same, the MAF should compensate for the differnt air flow, unless there would not be enough flow to send the proper signal to the CPU. Is there any tuner chips for the 300, that you could change the setting with?

Just Curious,

Blake
 
im not going to try to tell you if it would or would not work but as to the tuner chip for the 300 their are some out there they are pretty limited and i don't really know if a tuner chip would help much with smaller cubes..... i would almost think it would compensate better for bigger cubes but im sure if you could get the manifold to fit you could find somebody that could re map the cpu or maybe the chip and i imagine that at least your chances would be better the other thing is the 300 injection does alot with the distributer and the timing and it would be possible to trick the computer into not worrying about the timing it would be a fun project tho over my head but it would be very interesting and i would definitely like to se somebody do it
 
Im fairly certain that even if you cut the log off a 200 that the 300 intake would not be that close of a physical fit. If you have the resources to cut a log off it would seem that you could also fit one with injectors so I see very little benefit to starting with a 300. There would be very little that is usable without mods and if you are modding things you might as well start with something that is better suited. As long as you have an ECU that is easy to program (or self learning) you can pretty much mix and match the rest of the parts as needed. Factory ECU's dont really fit either of those requirements. Earlier stuff was pretty limited even if you have the ability to 'burn' chips and having to burn the chips means it can not be done real time which is often very difficult for a beginner. The later ECU's (which I dont think the 300 ever got) are much better as far as tuning but are sometimes limited by what sort of sensors and devices are connected to them. This is all why Megasquirt is so popular for DIY types. It can pretty much be configured to run any engine. That is also its downside because of the amount of flexibility its not a simple plug and play. You have to have a decent basic understanding of how efi works (and basic tuning works) so you can get the system properly configured and working. Its all pretty well documented but like I say its not plug and play. In the end I think it was well worth the trouble because I now have a much better understanding of how it all works so my next project is going to be that much better even if its not a MS. There are several aftermarket systems out there now that are pretty much plug and play and self tuning but they are made for larger more popular engines than ours. I think there just are not enough people out in the world that want efi on a small engine. Those that are running small engines are new enough that they were efi from the start.
 
The 300 would work great. you would need to use a slightly less powerful injector set and you may have to adjust the computer (which is possible if you can find someone that knows how to tap into it). you will have to custom build a throttle body plate for the log head and will also have to build a custom fuel rail. but if you look at it you can see where the intake ports are and you can find injector inserts that you will have to drill and tap into the log head. its a lot easier done then said for me anyways. but i will have to take some pictures and post. do not cut the log head off!!!! that is a bad no no! lol
 
8) instead of pulling the injection system off a 300, you might consider pulling the system from one of fords smaller V6 engines, the 2.9 ranger V6 or the 3.0 vulcan V6. you can rearrange the injector wiring as needed to get the right firing order, and the injectors and fuel curve will be much closer than the 300s will.
 
The thing to compare on EFI is not the cubic inches, but the rated power output of the engine. An EFI system set up for a six cylinder that is in the 120-140 hp range should be about right and will operate pretty well without much tuning when used on a 200.

Keep in mind that the tuner to burn a Ford ECU, alone, could cost more than a complete megasquirt!
 
The thing to compare on EFI is not the cubic inches, but the rated power output of the engine. An EFI system set up for a six cylinder that is in the 120-140 hp range should be about right and will operate pretty well without much tuning when used on a 200.

Keep in mind that the tuner to burn a Ford ECU, alone, could cost more than a complete megasquirt!


Firstly, you can easily run 60 pin EECIV or 103 pin EECV on any size Ford Six, and you have the option of Speed Density or MAF. There are two key parts that makes it possible.

Two of the common US 4.9 F150 speed density computers have been mapped, and the ODBII EEC V on the MAF 4.9's as well.


The second point to the key is the Aussie I6's ran the US EECIV and EECV set ups, and the T.I Performance guys have a simple EECIV module that they use, that has the binary and unpack strategy mapped, and they use the J3 pin to reconfigure. Reason being the early EECV and distributor-less ignition in Aussie sixes made it hard to upgrade to LPG, so Ford Australia reverted back to the EECIV for a few years. In so doing, the cost of getting really good EECIV modules is very low, and those guys really make it work with a 210 hp base calibration with distributor even before its been modified.


This also means that set ups exist to remove OBDII on the early EECV I6 set ups, as some cars in the Ford Australia empire had a non OBDII EECV set up from factory.

The upper 300 manifold is able to fit the 200 log with an adapter.

The twin throttle Motorcraft 1.85 and 2.05 throttle bodies used on the 87- 96 F150 trucks is able to be mounted to the stock log with another Lincs 200 style run to the front and back part of the log head.


The
 
Maverick72":203rapqn said:
The 300 would work great. you would need to use a slightly less powerful injector set and you may have to adjust the computer (which is possible if you can find someone that knows how to tap into it). you will have to custom build a throttle body plate for the log head and will also have to build a custom fuel rail. but if you look at it you can see where the intake ports are and you can find injector inserts that you will have to drill and tap into the log head. its a lot easier done then said for me anyways. but i will have to take some pictures and post. do not cut the log head off!!!! that is a bad no no! lol
Cutting the log head off is a hallowed tradition around these parts. Ain't nothin wrong with it.

Also, that sounds like a lot of work in order to get to the point where your next move is to overcome the lack of tunability in the 300's computer. Be smarter to go with a computer that has already been hacked open by the aftermarket.
 
This is a Mega Squirt forum, and peace to the guys who set it up. Mega Squirt will do everything with a moderate to small cost. I shouldn't be here, despite the fact that I like the system as it has most of the feature I love in EFI systems, I am not a Mega Squirt forum lover as I've found everything I like from Fords EEC system, and I consider anyone bat sh!+ to go for anything else.


Like a lot of things, its too easy to get too theoretical, and loose track of just getting everything at hand, and slapping it together! Jack Collins and others have often used other setups aside from Mega Squirt, and chopped and changed from outrageous to low rent...Jack went thru iterations of different carbs: 6 Mikunis, then Side draft Strombergs, Dual one bbl Carters, a 2bbl Holley, and now a Megasquirted EFI, but remember, he used SDS EFI on his Crossflow 66 Stang, and four motor bike carbs on his sons car.

If you just decide to use one system, you'll find a way to make it cheapest. Since this is a Mega Squirt forum, have the decency to use the Mega Squirt system, and network togther on tuning it.

All my posts here on this Mega Squirt forum are pro EEC IV and 5 posts, because I've found that Ford has the basemaps for them, and the key part of EFI-ing a Log 200 or 250 is setting up the basemaps. Mega Squirt guys can do that with help, but it requires networking to do it well.

On the other hand, Ford EEC guys can use the standard Ford basemaps, and get a head start for a moderate cost. The whole of life cost of getting EEC IV or EECV to run has dropped because of the work Ford i6 fanatics in the USA and Australia have done the work breaking the binary codes.

Asa":rzlma3wn said:
....
Also, that sounds like a lot of work in order to get to the point where your next move is to overcome the lack of tunability in the 300's computer. Be smarter to go with a computer that has already been hacked open by the aftermarket.



Your right, the stock 4.9 computer might not be the ideal, but a few 4.9 batchcodes have been cracked. Some were Speed Density and some MAF, but either systems work well, and don't hurt the viability of a 4.9 computer being used on a 200 or 250.

What I am certainly saying is that Fords EEC 4 and Five has been cracked for some of the 4.9 I6's, and OBD II is not the limiter to modification that it once was. The cost for a setup that has a 170 hp to 210 hp EECIV V6 and I6 Basemap is very low, and in terms of total cost, its probably lower than Mega Squirt because it uses conservative FoMoCo durability tested mapping, but with all the stock fault codes Ford designed in. The sources of computer from certain SOHC V6 4.0's, 4.9's or 4.0 I6 OHC Aussie Fords. The EEC tuners have made Quarter Horse programs that run off the J3 plug for EECIV, and other SCT re-flashes for EECV, that don't have OBDII restrictions that rain on the EEC tuners parade. Ford Australia helped us out in 1994 when they went to EECV, and ran every imported 5.0 Explorer block from 1994 to early 2003 with a cut down EEC 5 system which doesn't have the OBDII system in it. So suddenly, EEC 5 isn't a glitch like it was when you had to have all the self checking OBDII crud included. In any case, OBDII EEC V computers can be used, a log as the extra ~ 43 pin-outs over EEC IV have some thing to condition. For pre OBD II vehicles like all our small over head valve 200 to 250 Small I6's are, its been run in 5.0 hot rods down here for years, and a Kiwi acquaintance I know does it for a living. Since the batch code EECV for Aussie EFI 5.0 GT40 and GT40P Explorer based engines has been cracked, it possible to use it as an I6 EFI upgrade without OBDII.

Sometimes, being stuck without the support you Americans have from the aftermarket industry helps the Aussies and Kiwis innovate by the "number eight wire" and "Aussie/Kiwi ingenuity" mentality. Ford Australia was forced to make the EECIV stuff work when EECV failed to allow propane conversions and cam updgrades work properly.


The 200/250 log can stay.

Method 1, 2, the log head speed density system with stock I6 air cleaner but port injection and Ford twin throttle body ex 4.9 truck EFI

And Method 3, the EFI F150 upper intake without sawing off the log, the intimate detail and info is there in another post.

There are Three methods.


The Innovation is 100% American! Or perhaps Belgian people from Ghent



Method 1. You can use a Transco 2-bbl to 1-bbl adapter, and run a 2-bbl EFI 4.9 throttle body on top, with just enough room for 6 injectors using

drag-200stang viewtopic.php?t=27536

or xflow Fairlane's method viewtopic.php?t=37661

of injector mounting.

Fiddle with fuel pressure and injector sizing, and do a DurasparkII to Ford TFI or GM HEI control unit conversion, and your ready to go.

For me, its Method 2. Lincs200 and xflow Fairlane's combined. When Lincs 200 came up with a Sidewinder external ducting to the out log like this,

logintakemod.jpg
,

I knew I could put a 2-bbl on the log and get it flowing well enough for port EFI. You can't direct mount it like the traditional direct mount Small Ford Six log because it gets in the way of the injectors. You can direct mount it the conventional V8 2-bbl way, and run a secondary manifold Lincs 200 style under the outside. Here's how I did mine.




Method 3 is to add the 4.9 Big six EFI intake to the log head lower, using AK Millers system



Army of Six "My mega squirt install" Mar 02, 2009 EFI 240 update. viewtopic.php?p=430533 In the instance of EFI-ing a little 200 log six, you add a custom new lower part to the log, rather than a new custom upper EFI part. You can use the stock 4.9 EFI upper as is. The Big Six has inlet 1 and Inlet 6 22.40 inches apart, while the Small six has differential pitching of the inlets, and inlet 1 and Inlet 6 on the log head are about 18.70 inches apart. So the outers need to be brought down to the log head spacings by about 1.85 inches (the difference 22.40-18.70, divided by two) each side on the outer inlets. Or you just do an Ak Miller http://www.classicinlines.com/HA1.asp and add four pipes by braising, then perhaps two extra sidewinders to the outer welsh plugs on the log. The log intakes vary from 21.25 to 21.85" long, and a 22.4 inch spacing 4.9 EFI manifold would then fit with ease, each of the six pipes would then line up with the upper intake with the utmost simplicity.

Photo0068.jpg



A 50% drop in capacity from 300 cubes to 200 isn't a major,when you can control injector size and fuel pressure. SD EFI gets screwed up when the pulse timings are out of sequence, so you'll only have to run the stock 110 degree lob centers that the 240 and 300 268 degree cam did, and then fiddle with the fuel delivery pressure and/or injector sizes to suit.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/10360 ... ers-8.html



Enough of the I6 EEC IV and V have been batch code listed, and mapped for both US 4.9's and US Aussie 4.0 and 4.1's, and the base map is about 210 hp with a TFI distributor. The transmissions are not an issue, and its all catered for with FoMoCo standard parts.

Its just the log to F150 EFI upper part, or the a speed density direct mount 2-bbl twin throttle body bits that need to be hooked up. Its just a rehash of Ak Millers welded on stubs to make a log head EFI compatible. All the science and hard work has been done.

Or you just buy a CI head, and slap on an F150 upper with SD or MAF EECIV from any source.


Or Mega Squirt.

All they way, the log can be left, and doesn't need to be sawn off.

I've spent so much time with my 205 hp Explorer making a 4200 pound truck do 25 us mpg at 65 mph, and have faultless reliability to ever go back to carbs and non EDIS ignition. To me, I'm with the guy airrocket on fordmuscleforums, who said it all...
carbs and dizzies imply "antiquated tech"


And a guy who flat out loves carbs, jets, air bleads, well and emulsion tubes and electronic Distributors told you that.

Fords foray into EEC Four and Five paves the way for simplified tuning of our I6's into 200 plus hp streeters with next to no non factory parts. If you wanna go Mega Squirt, knock yourself out.

Either way, the Ford I6 wins
 
Port layout and spacing on a Nissan L24-L28 is similar to the 200, if you were going to hack the log off. The TB would be facing rearward - no big deal.

8300040015_large.jpg
 
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