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Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

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Does10s
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Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #1 by Does10s » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:11 am

Well we started Kelly's Falcon up yesterday afternoon with the SDS Multiport EFI system working the injectors and timing!
Started it just long enough to break in the newly rebuilt 250. So no driving impression yet.
But so far it's working just fine! Kelly took a few pics, I'll see if I can get them downloaded and posted soon.

I have a bunch of tuning work to do before (and during!) our next race March 5-6 at Speedworld in Phoenix.
Later,
Will
Image
'86 Mustang, Turbocharged, Best ET: 10.70@132.
'69 Mustang Sportsroof, 351w, auto
'63 Falcon, Turbocharged 250, C4, 9", Best ET: 10.64@127mph 11/21/14

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Gene Fiore
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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #2 by Gene Fiore » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:50 am

Sounds great! Looking forward to seeing you guys at Speedworld. :D
1971 Maverick, 250I6, crank knife-edged, Clay Smith 278 solid cam, .040 over 255 V8 pistons, 10.5 to 1, Custom 500 Holley 2V on Classic Inlines Aluminum cylinder head, 1.6 rockers, Hooker header, DUI dizzy, C-4 w/2800 stall, 8" 3.55 det locker

Best ET 1/4 mile: 14.92 at 89.61 mph on 1/12/2013

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JackFish
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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #3 by JackFish » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:27 am

8) I'm sure glad someone decided to to this. Very cool.
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
Yup, I bought another one.
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CobraSix
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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #4 by CobraSix » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:11 pm

Damnit...you beat me!

I'm working on a MPFI system as well. Hope to have it up and running by the fall. Sorting some ignition options right now so I can get it set up for SEFI and Coil on Plug (or near plug).

But I'll still be another year before forced induction.

Did you just have Mike's head modified for the bungs?
Slade
My Website
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Engine: 200 CI, Oz 250 modified for 4V Holley 390CFM, DS II Ignition, 40kV Flamethrower, MSD Digital 6+
Drivetrain: Cable Clutch, V-8 T5, 8" 5 Lug Rear End, 5-Lug SSBC Front Brakes, 3.40:1 Posi

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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #5 by gravelrash » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:02 am

pics please Will.
1965 XP Falcon.
250 2v Turbo holset H1C 600dp blow through Holley.
NOW 250 crossflow efi using Delco injection.
412hp at the f@#king tyres. YEAH BABY

Does10s
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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #6 by Does10s » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:02 am

I'll get the pics posted tonight.

We had our machinist just drill the injector bosses in the CI head to fit the injectors. We also put the injectors at an angle to literally spray on the backside of the valve.
The fuel rail is obviously drilled the same.
We're using a 4150 style throttle body made by Wilson Manifolds that we picked up from a friend of ours. The intake is the aluminum sheetmetal Hogan intake that we've tried before with the carb. It never worked with a carb. So we'll see how it does when there isn't any fuel in the air.
Injectors are 46lbs/hr. Should be good for up to 550hp. So hopefully we'll have to upgrade at some point. :D
Later,
Will
Image
'86 Mustang, Turbocharged, Best ET: 10.70@132.
'69 Mustang Sportsroof, 351w, auto
'63 Falcon, Turbocharged 250, C4, 9", Best ET: 10.64@127mph 11/21/14

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rocklord
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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #7 by rocklord » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:46 am

Does the SDS system allow for knock sensors? Would be nice with a boosted system.
Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
1961 Corvair Lakewood wagon, 145CID, 80HP, 2Spd Powerglide Auto.
2017 BMW X3, 3.0L Dual Turbo, 300HP, 8-Spd Auto

Does10s
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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #8 by Does10s » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:22 pm

Knock sensor is optional and yes we have it. Although finding a good spot to put it was fun! :hmmm: It's fully tunable too. So I can increase or decrease the sensitivity of it. So if our solid lifters are noisy enough I can just turn down the sensor. Of course hopefully not low enough to not pick up any detonation!
Here's a "in process of assembly" pic.
Image

We'll get one with the carb hat on it.
The wiring has been cleaned up a bit. And I was able to add a 1" spacer under the throttle body.
We just got out of the garage tonight after running the car for about 15 min. Tested the new C4 and did a check for A/F ratios at idle and up to 3500rpm. Right now we're running straight 91 octane pump gas. It was idling a bit rich so that'll be easy to fix.
Might drive it out to dinner tomorrow night.
Later,
Will
Image
'86 Mustang, Turbocharged, Best ET: 10.70@132.
'69 Mustang Sportsroof, 351w, auto
'63 Falcon, Turbocharged 250, C4, 9", Best ET: 10.64@127mph 11/21/14

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woodbutcher
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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #9 by woodbutcher » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:27 am

:beer: Hi Will and Kelly.Sounds like a GREAT upgrade.Best of luck.Have fun.
Shred some bow tie and munch some BBQ ram for the rest of us.
Leo
"People never lie so much as after a hunt,during a war,or before an election".
Otto von Bismarck

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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #10 by Kstang » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:28 am

Can I ask why you went with a pre-made system like SDS vs Megasquirt 3(x)?

Does10s
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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #11 by Does10s » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:56 am

Kstang wrote:Can I ask why you went with a pre-made system like SDS vs Megasquirt 3(x)?


Simple....it's premade! I call them up, tell Ross what I want and he'll make it happen.
I also didn't have the time to do the Megasquirt "educational experience". We just got the car running last Sunday. We have to race it March 5-6. Had we used Megasquirt, we would've been spectators.

And there's no need for a laptop!

Later,
Will
Image
'86 Mustang, Turbocharged, Best ET: 10.70@132.
'69 Mustang Sportsroof, 351w, auto
'63 Falcon, Turbocharged 250, C4, 9", Best ET: 10.64@127mph 11/21/14

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rocklord
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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #12 by rocklord » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:10 am

Which SDS system did you purchase and what was the ballpark cost?
Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
1961 Corvair Lakewood wagon, 145CID, 80HP, 2Spd Powerglide Auto.
2017 BMW X3, 3.0L Dual Turbo, 300HP, 8-Spd Auto

Does10s
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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #13 by Does10s » Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:34 pm

We did an hour on the chassis dyno at Brother's Racing here in Tucson on Friday.
They have a DynoJet dyno.
The goal was to verify our Innovate wide band O2 to theirs and to map the SDS system little better.
Not a peak HP or torque session!

First off...weather conditions! 103 degrees F. 27.60 In-Hg, 5% Humidity. D/A in the 8400 ft. range!
In other words....crappy!

The best pass before we totally heat soaked everything was 342 hp and 327 lb/ft. at the tires.
We never improved upon that even after 12 pulls. Mainly due to the weather and engine temps!
We also found later at the track that we were leaking boost before the intercooler because of a loose T-bolt clamp.
We're using her old, smaller turbo because the last piston eating session in Vegas spit pieces of turbine wheel out the tailpipe!

None the less we were able to see that we were indeed running the motor very fat. His Wide band tops out at 10:1 Air/fuel ratio and we were richer than that! The onboard wide band got a few "too rich" conditions.
We concentrated on that issue and got it to a better 11:1 for most of the RPM curve. We still have work to do this in department! It's still fat between 4000-5000 rpm.
The best improvement was in the "accelerator pump" or "throttle position sensitvity". Ever since we switched to EFI Kelly has had issues at the hit of throttle. So we were able to tune that totally out. So she should be able to leave better now.

We'll keep messing with it and get it right.
Later,
Will
Image
'86 Mustang, Turbocharged, Best ET: 10.70@132.
'69 Mustang Sportsroof, 351w, auto
'63 Falcon, Turbocharged 250, C4, 9", Best ET: 10.64@127mph 11/21/14

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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #14 by woodbutcher » Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:23 pm

:beer: Outstanding.Looking good.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Happy Fathers day to all.
Leo
"People never lie so much as after a hunt,during a war,or before an election".

Otto von Bismarck

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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #15 by Anlushac11 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:59 am

Very nice setup!

Once again you are providing inspiration for my 85 Mustang :D

At the rate your making power were gonna have to start prodding Mike for those 4 bolt main girdled blocks.

nudge nudge wink wink
3.3L n C4 installed, working on wiring for Duraspark II, trans lines, fuel lines, carb linkage.

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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #16 by Does10s » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:51 am

So far Kelly's best ET with the EFI is an 11.11. But I know that the timing could use a few more degrees added in and still be "safe".
We're also ready to turn up the boost a bit. We've been running it in the 13-14 lbs. range since we installed the SDS system.

I'll crank on the wastegate this weekend and get it back up to the 15-17 range.
Maybe it'll pick up a bit.

Out next race is Oct. 22nd here in Tucson for Kelly's own "Quartermile for a Cure" Charity fund raiser.

Later,
Will
Image
'86 Mustang, Turbocharged, Best ET: 10.70@132.
'69 Mustang Sportsroof, 351w, auto
'63 Falcon, Turbocharged 250, C4, 9", Best ET: 10.64@127mph 11/21/14

E4ODnut
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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #17 by E4ODnut » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:49 am

Will
Couple of questions for you.

I understand you are using an Innovate WB. How did it's readings compare to the one on the Dyno? I'm using LC1s on my boat but I'm not sure how accurate they are.

How about the knock sensor? I'm using a KnockSenseMS which I mounted to what looks like some sort of mounting boss on the left side aft. KnockSenseMS takes a bit of tweaking, but it seems to work pretty good comparing it with the "tin ear" method.
Robert
'95 E-150, 4.9L, E4OD, Megasquirt
'92 Winnebago Elante 33RQ, 7.5L, E4OD, Megasquirt
'93 Bayliner 3288, Twin 5.8L Windsors, converted to tuned port EFI, Megasquirt

Does10s
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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #18 by Does10s » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:49 am

As it turns out our wideband was probably a little contaminated. I was suspecting we were having issues with it after the EFI install and it would get a "pump error" a bunch of times and the readings were inconsistant.

So when compared to the one at the Dyno, it was reading lean. So that would explain why we were running so rich. I kept adding more fuel and the wideband didn't respond very much. So I added even more fuel!
Then I pulled a few sparks plugs and they were totally black!

Right now I pulled the Innovate out of Kelly's car and we're tuning from the dyno, plugs, and MPH at the track.

As for the knock sensor.....
I installed it on the right side of the engine way down low just above the oil pan rail. My reasoning for that is because we have solid lifters and I didn't want them to add a bunch of false readings to the mix.
It does seem to work! With the SDS System the screen will show a "K" when the knock sensor picks up something. It activated on the first test drive!
Initially I had the sensitivity turned way up, then dialed it back from there.
Later,
Will
Image
'86 Mustang, Turbocharged, Best ET: 10.70@132.
'69 Mustang Sportsroof, 351w, auto
'63 Falcon, Turbocharged 250, C4, 9", Best ET: 10.64@127mph 11/21/14

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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #19 by MPGmustang » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:21 pm

sounds great!! good luck on saturday!!
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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #20 by woodbutcher » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:49 pm

:beer: Hi Will and Kelly.Sounds like you`re getting there.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo
"People never lie so much as after a hunt,during a war,or before an election".

Otto von Bismarck

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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #21 by E4ODnut » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:07 pm

Can you actually here a ping (knock) or is there too much ambient noise?
Robert
'95 E-150, 4.9L, E4OD, Megasquirt
'92 Winnebago Elante 33RQ, 7.5L, E4OD, Megasquirt
'93 Bayliner 3288, Twin 5.8L Windsors, converted to tuned port EFI, Megasquirt

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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #22 by E4ODnut » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:01 am

Another thought.

Did you do another free air calibration on the Innovate WB? This is very important for accurate measurement and apparently Innovate had some problems with some of the units. Mine seems to calibrate OK and the readings are within an acceptable range of stability but it indicates that I'm getting best power around 11.7:1. I have Tech Edge in a couple of other vehicles and they indicate about 13:1 or perhaps a tad richer. I don't know if it's the instrument, the installation, or if that is indeed what the engine likes best.
Robert
'95 E-150, 4.9L, E4OD, Megasquirt
'92 Winnebago Elante 33RQ, 7.5L, E4OD, Megasquirt
'93 Bayliner 3288, Twin 5.8L Windsors, converted to tuned port EFI, Megasquirt

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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #23 by Does10s » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:08 am

E4ODnut wrote:Can you actually here a ping (knock) or is there too much ambient noise?


Well, I'm never in the car to hear if it pings! :D Kelly has never reported to me that she hears it, if it is occuring.

And your right I do need to recalibrate the meter.

Later,
Will
Image
'86 Mustang, Turbocharged, Best ET: 10.70@132.
'69 Mustang Sportsroof, 351w, auto
'63 Falcon, Turbocharged 250, C4, 9", Best ET: 10.64@127mph 11/21/14

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Re: Kelly's Falcon....now on EFI!

Post #24 by Funky Cricket » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:35 pm

I haven't been around in awhile. Congrats on the new 250 build. I'll look around to see if you have any other pics up. I've been itching to save up for another project and I've been thinking an mpfi crossflow would be fun, this look like a neat system.
Funky Cricket
6-less, but still dreaming of the next one.

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