good beginner system

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68shortbed
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good beginner system

Post #1 by 68shortbed » Thu May 05, 2005 8:15 pm

I was wandering what brands are good on quality,cheap on price. I just want a CD player head unit and 3 or 4 way speakers to put in my truck. The Wal-Mart here in town has Sony Xplod, Jensen, and off brand stuff, theres some other name brands, I just can't think of them at the moment.

I will be listening to rock and hip-hop mostly. So I want something that can give a decent thump. It has to cost some where in the $200-$400 range.

Any and all help is appreciated.
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Gerry Lutz Jr.

Post #2 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Thu May 05, 2005 8:36 pm

Well nothing for 200$ to 400$ will give you much of a thump but, my version of thump and yours is probably different. I have a 10 in woofer (pile i think it's a cheapy) and a 240 watt pioneer amp for my truck and it shakes the windows and moves the mirrors a little.

As for normal speakers i'd get name brands and name brands only. For the normal speakers i usually get base blockers (inline base filters) so the smaller speakers won't distort at high volumes as bad + you won't need the base since you will have a woofer.

The box all depends on what you want and the application it's going in.

More realistically you will need probably about 800$ for a mild system with woofers, box, amp, deck, and front, and rear speakers.

My sister has a sony xplod deck (2)lanzar woofers (12in) and mtx amp and her's hits quite hard. she got her amp for around 180$, 200$ for box with woofers and 100$ for rear speakers.

Base blockers are like 4$ a peice or something and i think a must for good sound quality. Btw the box with woofers she got lucky on it was miss priced it was more realistically around 275$ or so. As for a deck a decent deck is about 200$. I'd get something name brand for it also and something that has a 50watt 4 channel output or close to. Don't just buy 1 because it's snazzy and flips and turns and stuff buy it for the features like if it's mp3 compatible detachable face good anti skip and name brand

For my system i bought the amp on sale at best buy for 70$ i think. The woofer and box for like 100$ 200$ for the deck. 90$ for rockford fosgates little side speakers. Btw for best buy quality i'd stick with rockfords great tone good name and reliable. Btw if they ask if you want to warranty it for like 20$ or such say no. I did and have tried so hard to blow my speakers and they won't. I even ran my amp bridged and my deck to the 2 speakers which max output is like 90 watt supposably and couldn't blow them with volume all the way up. I listen to music very loud always and have had those little 5 1/4s for over 2 years without even the slightestdifference in sound quality and i don't even use base blockers.


If you have a threshold audio or some other place that seems professional and specializes in audio and electronics near you, then my best advise is to talk to them to see what you want and can afford.

Gerry Lutz Jr.

Post #3 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Thu May 05, 2005 8:52 pm

Aaah guess i'll read before i get carried away next time well the deck part from the last article is correct. I'd go to best buy or someone who specializes in audio and electronics and listen for yourself. In my opinion the 3 way pioneer 5 by9s or 6 by 9s whichever it was sound better than the 4 way versions of it. I like rockfords more than those though and in my opinion sound quality of a sony xplod can't compare to either of those 2. I'd get a set of rockford fosgate punch series 5 by 9s or 6 by 9s they have best all around sound quality, are a good brand name, good quality,and kool looking so on so forth. though that's only my opinion you may love the xplods or a mtx speaker or such. Still you can't push much base through a full range speaker like that. If you want base get the mini woofers like 5 1/4 from rockford they are loud sound good but, carry a very hefty price tag of like 220$ for 2. If you wan't ratteling base go with like a 10 or 12 in woofer and small amp like i described in my truck. The 5 by 9s will run you roughly 120$ for a pair. Front speakers will probably be about 90$. A deck will probably run you about 200$.

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Post #4 by 68shortbed » Thu May 05, 2005 9:44 pm

Thanks for the info. :D Can you tell me exactly what you have in your truck? It sounds like its a pretty good set up. and I think wal-mart had rockford fosgate, so I might be in luck.
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Post #5 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Thu May 05, 2005 10:02 pm

Right now in my truck i'm using a kenwood 45 watt 4 channel deck, a pile 10 in woofer and a pioneer 240 watt amp. Also using 5 1/4 in round rockford fosgate punch series full range speakers in the doors (3 way speakers i think) (this is all in a single cab 1977 ford 4x4 f-150). It need's a little mid range but, has great sound quality. The amp is 2 channel i beleive and bridgeable. If you want a good cheap amp my sis is selling her old mtx btw. I can tell you about it's ebay info or such if needed. She just got rid of her car's system except the amp. Her amp puts out a true 122 watts rms. (plenty) probably equivelant to a 1200 watt xplod amp or a little more. Don't take the watt things from factory serious though. most of it is bs for ex. the walmart little dual 5 1/4 in woofer box with tweeters on it can pump 300 watts lol g/l not while im alive.

Although if you like a good high pitch tweeter buy that walmart box and hook it up to your deck actually has nice sound quality considering it's 15$. the tweeters like them are usually 20 $ a pair so i bought the box with the lil 5 1/4s and took the tweeters out for mine for a while.

O btw i think she will sell you that mtx amp for 50$ probably. at least she said she would me but, im broke and would probably blow my woofer with that amp anyways. G/l with the system i love playing with stereos. I'm redoing my interior on my truck soon and will add my sis's malibus old 5 by 9s for some mid range plus they are free maybe ill post pics soon. My system is realy ugly but, sounds good.

Hopefully i'll save some money and buy the 5 1/4 in round rockford woofers and put them in there.

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Post #6 by 68shortbed » Thu May 05, 2005 10:47 pm

Thanks for the offer on the amp. But no thanks. I don't have enough room for a big subwoofer box, yet. I'm planning on putting bucket seats in my truck. Then I could have all that space in between the seats.

I've been looking at the Pyle Website. Looks like they have some good stuff. I'm going to wal-mart tomorrow after work to see if they have any pyle stuff. I think right now I'm just going to buy a head unit and speakers, then I'll buy an amp and sub in a month or 2.
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Post #7 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Fri May 06, 2005 6:36 am

Sounds like an idea to me yah you don't want like 2 12''s like my sis's in a single cab truck. It would vibrate so bad your head would malfunction lol. Then again i know people who do so i guess it's an opinion thing. Just remeber not to run anything bigger than like 6 by 9s with the head unit not 10 in woofers or such lol or else you will blow the deck.

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Post #8 by 68shortbed » Fri May 06, 2005 6:51 am

do you know of some good decks with pre amp outputs?
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Post #9 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Fri May 06, 2005 10:46 am

Yep pretty much any deck anymore for about 200$ has pre amp outputs. I like sony xplod 52 watt 4 channel 1s. If i were you i'd get 1 that plays mp3 format files to g/l

placid warrior

Post #10 by placid warrior » Fri May 06, 2005 6:43 pm

I did a sub/amp install in a 2004 sunfire using the stock deck. I used female end RCA connectors tapped into the 6x9's (u cant hook up both wires from the connectors though or it will sent the amp into protective mode). then we ran RCA cables from the 6x9 connectors to the amp. We never installed bass blockers (passive crossover) between the 6x9s which would have been a good idea, but this way works pretty good cause when u turn up the bass on the head unit the sub bass goes up too (which is why u would want 'bass blockers' for the 6x9's) but pre-amps make things easier.

a single 10 will give a good thump with a good amp. Sony isnt bad...MTX is better, but i dont know if the walmart in your area sells em...plus they're like $100 over here. If u have a London Drugs they have some really cheap stuff. U can get a Pyramid (crappy brand) 10" sub for 30 bucks and it sounds quite decent (blew a jensen and put one of the pyramids in my buds car and its only being powered by a 100W amp.)

Even if u go cheap on the subs and spend a bit more on the amp...it will sound better than good subs with a cheap amp (I've experienced this too)...just make sure the power ratings are compatible and the gains are set right.

the Sony and Pioneer 6x9s sound better than the Jensen...the Sony has more Bass (i thought the Pioneer sounded clearer though)

I have a Premier deck and it has the option to run 2 subs instead of 6x9s, although they only get 50W (plus some sort of power reserve...dont have the manual on me right now, but it doesnt matter) each...i didnt care for it though since u might as well be using 6x9'x with a crossover to cut out the the higher frequencies.

And like Gerry Luts Jr. says...dont take the wattage thing seriously. The boxes with subs and tweeters suck (i bought one so i could hear it since it was cheap and it got trashed quite quickly) Power ratings for subs are different than for amps. Amps ratings can be all over the place due to the extreme way some companies test amps. Usually sub ratings are more accurate, but wont handle abuse as well as a better quality sub. A 400W MAX power sub only has a rating of 100W RMS (which they dont say so they let u think u can run 400W to it) if u run a crappy 100W RMS sub with a 100W top of the line amp, with the gains set correctly it will last just as long as a good quality sub hooked up to the same setup...the difference being is that the better sub can handle more power and slightly higher gain settings withought blowing as quick.

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Post #11 by 68shortbed » Fri May 06, 2005 7:12 pm

I went to wal-mart and took a cd of mine to test the displays. I tested 2 head units, a Pioneer and a Sony Xplod, both cost $100. And then I tested all of the speakers. The pioneer head unit was easier to use, and had more stuff on it, it also sounded better/louder. But the pioneer speakers didn't sound as good as the Sony Xplod's.

The speakers were 6"x9" 4-ways, 300 or 400 watts max and 5 1/4" 4-ways, 160 watts max, 2 of each, all 4 turned on at the same time. the 6x9's cost $60, and the 5 1/4's are $40.

The pioneer was 200 watt max output, 50 watts x 4 channel. It also had preamp outputs on the back. I turned the bass all the up, turned the mid and treble to half, pushed the "loud" button, then turned the volume up slowly, I stopped at 10. It had some decent vibration and thump, enough that I liked it.

Should I buy the 6x9's first, or the 5 1/4's.

And, where do the 5 1/4's mount? The dash or the door?
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Post #12 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Fri May 06, 2005 8:10 pm

Speaker mounting is a big preference thing i know many people that don't like mounting door speakers. Reason is unlike a subwoofer the sound waves are more directional therefore they sound like crap outside the car usually.

As for me i mounted them on the doors anyways. Also remember music is a big preference thing as i said, i think the pioneer 6 by 9 3 ways sound best tone and quality wise but, i'd give it to the xplods for loudness and base. Then again i always get rockford which have pretty good base and a good tone quality yet aren't rated as high.

My systems all miss matched but, sounds better than my friends all sony system. As for amps when your ready to buy 1 i'd talk to some of the old time electronics gurus on here for best choices. Amp choice is a big deal as placid warrior mentioned even more so than the woofer. Don't just go getting something because, it's name brand though. I have a friend who bought a sony xplod box all neon tricked out and such with dual 12'" ers and it doesn't even hit as hard as my truck does. He uses 12" xplod woofers with a 1200 watt xplod amp. A realy fancy flip screen 52 watt deck xplod so on.... it just doesn't have the sound quality that you would expect for like 1,000$.

Anyways good luck and i agree too about everything placid warrior said btw :). As for me rockford fosgate punch all the way!!!! :twisted: :twisted: . Btw i don't know specifics on these things i'm only 16 and have only wired a few systems so getting advise from me isn't always the best idea but, that's how i see it.

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Post #13 by 68shortbed » Fri May 06, 2005 8:38 pm

Btw i don't know specifics on these things i'm only 16 and have only wired a few systems so getting advise from me isn't always the best idea but, that's how i see it.


You have more experience than me. I'm 16 and have wired no systems. But I have read a book about car audio systems and it helped a lot. Its called AUTO AUDIO(it's the second edition), by Andrew Yoder.

An other thing I wanted to ask is, if I buy only 2 of the speakers can I brige the channel's of the deck to send more power to the speakers(deck is 50watts x 4 channels, 3x9" speakers are 300 or 400 watt max.)

See, I figure if I can bridge I can get twice the power per speaker or same power (at the speaker) at only half the power per channel at the head unit.
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Post #14 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Fri May 06, 2005 9:20 pm

As for bridging it as in how you would for like an amp i don't think you can but, you can always splice a 2nd wire to the end of your single wire and run it to 2 ports instead of the normal 1 and get the same effect. 1 set of small speakers and another set of bigger speakers would be my recomendation though because, my 5 1/4 round rockfords sound like crap without my amp/woofers because it gives a good low and midrange tone and the little speaker has nice high range.

As for truck boxes if you don't feel like cutting holes in the door for a bigger speaker liek a 5 by 9 make a homemade box for it and stuff it full of insulation cotton or something dense like that. It will sound good since truck cabs are small and the sound will reverbirate off of all the surfaces of the cab making it like a big box. I stuffed my small 10" woofer box with a full pillow barely could tighten down the screws to put the woofer in but, sounds good...

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Post #15 by 68shortbed » Fri May 06, 2005 9:46 pm

but, you can always splice a 2nd wire to the end of your single wire and run it to 2 ports instead of the normal 1 and get the same effect.


What do you mean by this?
Take the hook-up for, lets the front left speaker and hook it up to 2 speakers. OR take the hook-up for the front left AND the rear left speakers and hook them up to 1 speaker? :?

As for truck boxes if you don't feel like cutting holes in the door for a bigger speaker liek a 5 by 9 make a homemade box for it and stuff it full of insulation cotton or something dense like that. It will sound good since truck cabs are small and the sound will reverbirate off of all the surfaces of the cab making it like a big box. I stuffed my small 10" woofer box with a full pillow barely could tighten down the screws to put the woofer in but, sounds good...


I dont mind cutting a bigger hole in my door. But if I made a box would it make the speaker sound better?

And what should I make it out of? I dont really want to use MDF or fiber board. I've always wanted to make a sub box out of aluminum, but not with bolts, I wanted to weld it together, and then paint silver and black flames on it.
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Post #16 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Fri May 06, 2005 11:06 pm

Not realy sure i'm in the process of building boxes for my sis's old 5 by 9s as of today. So i guess i'll tellya how it does once they are finished. i would expect it would be better because you get a lot of sound lost in your door if you pay attention. Never know though we are talking about speakers in a box not a woofer so not quite sure how it would sound but, as i said i'm guessing better than in the doors.

Btw The aluminum box idea would be so sweeeeeeet!!!!!

Gerry Lutz Jr.

Post #17 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Fri May 06, 2005 11:13 pm

O yah as of the idea of bridging the speakers to the deck i was trying to say. Cut the casing off of your wire to the speaker towards the end where it connects to your deck then twist another wire to it, sauder it and, connect the 2 wires 2 2 different ports(since it's 4 4 speakers and you'd usually use only 2.) That way you will have wires running to all 4 ports but, actually only 1 wire running to each speaker. Wow that still don't sound like it makes sense maybe i'll just make a pic of what i mean on paint and put it up here if you don't get that lol.

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Post #18 by 68shortbed » Fri May 06, 2005 11:13 pm

I saw a ad in a JC Whitney book for 6x9" speaker boxes, and it said it would improve the sound of any 6x9" speakers. And I just read some more in "the book" The guy says that sealed enclosures are better than "open speakers"(ex. in the doors, in the dash). So I might make some boxes for the 6x9's and then cut out a hole in the door panel so they can be out of the way.
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Post #19 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Sat May 07, 2005 6:47 pm

Sounds like a good idea to me. I'll take some pics of what i've been working on lately ,maybe today or tomorow. I'll finish building my junky box tonight to probably. Just trying to get my truck in a more presentable condition to sell it.

placid warrior

Post #20 by placid warrior » Sat May 07, 2005 7:03 pm

I thought that an aluminum box would be cool too, but the experienced box builders say that it doesnt sound good and would be better off with MDF. The way speakers sound and where they are mounted are personal preference as mentioned. I have a 5-1/4" coaxial mounted in each door and then i also have a 5-1/4" sub with a seperate tweeter (tweeter is mounted at shoulder height. I have all 3 speakers on each side running to the 2 main speaker wires from the head unit....Which is what Gerry Lutz Jr. is talking about (i think). although that isnt bridging...bridging would be if i combined the left and the right to make a single speaker output (correct me if i'm wrong though)

I dont know the way your door is...but make sure before u start cutting that u have enough room in the door and wont run into issues (like rolling down the window) I read a few discussions about free air vs. sealed and the guys that have good quality coaxials and a properly sealed and deadend door dont like the sealed boxes, although with nothing done to the door itself i'm sure the boxed speakers have to sound better.

The audiophiles dont recommend bridging a head unit though.

The word "stock" in there scares me. Sounds like you are trying to use an OEM head unit or deck... If this IS what you are trying to do, you cannot bridge them! You must buy a small amplifier, either a mono amp, or a stereo amp with bridging capabilities. If you try to "bridge" a deck's outputs, you WILL FRY THAT DECK, so don't try it.

Gerry Lutz Jr.

Post #21 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Sat May 07, 2005 11:45 pm

Yah that's what i think i meant too. I knew it wasn't bridging and i think you are correct on what bridgings definition would be lol. What kind of 5 1/4 woofers do you have? i've been on the look out for some for my new car when i get it. Just wondering what you think of yours and approximately what you paid for them (only if you don't mind telling me if you do that's ok :)).

I'm surprised to have heard an aluminum box wouldn't sound good :(. I guess you could always build it with mdf and aluminum panel the outer shell and get the same effect looks wise though. Plus wouldn't have to have a expert welder if you didn't want then.

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Post #22 by 68shortbed » Sun May 08, 2005 7:23 am

Why won't aluminum sound good? I'm not going to make it out of 1/4" thin stuff, I'm making it out of 1" or 2" thick plates. My friend ( whose really into car stereos) said that aluminum dosn't sound good because the boxes boxes he heard had panels that were screwed/bolted together. Which rattled when the bass hit. Thats why i'm going to weld it.

And Gerry, I already have a professional welder, he's my dad.
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Post #23 by addo » Sun May 08, 2005 7:51 am

Metal is thin and too defined in its resonant frequencies. MDF and particleboard are not so "peaky" and therefore reproduce sound more evenly across the frequency spectrum.

Metal bonded fully to an MDF box with a rubbery adhesive (like Sikaflex) would work OK and give some interesting looks.

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Post #24 by 68shortbed » Sun May 08, 2005 8:45 am

Could I just make the aluminum box and then glue MDF or some other material to the inside?
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Post #25 by addo » Sun May 08, 2005 8:47 am

You could try! Maybe even Liquid Nails would stick it in there.

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Post #26 by 68shortbed » Sun May 08, 2005 8:50 am

Another "good looking" and very different box would be to carve 1 out of a big rock. A nice big chunk of diamand would look best.
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Post #27 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Sun May 08, 2005 10:42 am

lol i'm with you there 68shortbed lol. Tell me when you find a big old rock like that i'd love to "borrow" it :twisted: .

placid warrior

Post #28 by placid warrior » Sun May 08, 2005 5:04 pm

lol...a diamond box would be awesome. stick a neon light inside of it too and the light should hit everywhere.

The 5-1/4" subs are JBL and I paid $100 cdn. for them (with the tweeters too.) The coaxials are Premier brand, but i prefer the seperate tweeter with the JBL's. i get some decent mid range thump from them but dont expect good low bass from them as they are meant to be a mid range speaker, i am very pleased with them.

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Post #29 by 68shortbed » Sun May 08, 2005 7:43 pm

The neon light idea is cool. :D :wink: I didn't think of that.

I didn't get my stereo installed today. :( On the way to church my heater core started leaking and I had to fix that. And my dad slept all afternoon.

But at least I got the anti-freeze to stop leaking.
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Post #30 by placid warrior » Mon May 09, 2005 3:05 am

heh...oh well...important things are first...SO WHY DIDNT U INSTALL THAT SYSTEM>>>U CAN ALWAYS ADD MORE WATER TO THE RADIATOR!!!

just kidding man, the heater core is obviously more important. Glad u got it fixed though.

Gerry Lutz Jr.

Post #31 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Mon May 09, 2005 6:26 am

That doesn't sound half bad 100$ for woofer and tweeter. I think i'm going to have to look in to those. That's what i would want them for is a good mid range thump.

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Post #32 by addo » Mon May 09, 2005 8:21 am

:roll: Young guy walks into a car audio store...
I'm looking for a good solid thump

Image

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Post #33 by 68shortbed » Mon May 09, 2005 8:48 am

One thing I forgot to mention was that the speakers didn't come with wire(except for 12"). I bought 40 feet of Scosche 18 gauge "Professional oxygen-free copper" speaker wire. Is that the right stuff?

Another thing. What kind of alternator and battery should I buy once I start adding more stuff(ex. amp, sub, neon)?
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Post #34 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Mon May 09, 2005 10:05 am

Well that wire should work. it's a little thin for my liking i always go 2 times the recommended though.

As for battery and alternater i'd go 100+ amp alternater and a optima battery with like 1000 cranking watts.

Although my alternater is 70 amp and i have like a 700 cranking amp battey and i never run it dead. Just depends on how many speakers and what size you are running.

placid warrior

Post #35 by placid warrior » Mon May 09, 2005 4:14 pm

the optima batteries are different depending on the color. A red top battery is a starting battery...Very good starting battery and good for your system. The yellow top is a low cranking amperage battery for a longer power draw time and is good to use if u want to listen to the stereo with the car off for a lengthy period of time, U can run these with your basic starter battery or a red top if u want to pay the price for both, but to run the yellow top u will need to get an isolator so that u dont draw power from the starting battery while listening to the radio with the car off. Basically u need 80Amps for every 1000W of stereo and then another 30-40amps just to run the car and acessories. so if u have a deck which with a rating of 50Wx4 (200W) and a 350W amp u would need at least an 84amp alternator (its usually best to go with a higher amperage alt than required though) to run the stereo and car. i think stock alts are only 65Amps. (mine has a power curve which starts at 1500RPM alt speed and puts out 24A at that speed, which is about 700RPM...so its not that great at idle and lower speeds which is why its good to go with a higher amp alt.)

Gerry Lutz Jr.

Post #36 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Mon May 09, 2005 4:42 pm

addo's a dirty old man :lol: . Would be pretty amusing though. If i worked at an audio place and a guy told me that, i might just run away :lol: .J/p i'm more secure than that but, that would be pretty wierd.

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Post #37 by addo » Mon May 09, 2005 8:38 pm

I said "thump". That's British for "hit" or "punch".

It would be like asking to be hit hard! Nothing seedy. :nono:

:lol:

Gerry Lutz Jr.

Post #38 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Mon May 09, 2005 10:29 pm

Hey what can i say i'm american lol. i don't get the accents of other countries very well. That's funny though amusing how a 16 year olds brain works huh :oops: .

68_inliner

Post #39 by 68_inliner » Tue May 10, 2005 2:56 am

I was installing an all Rockford system, but sold my amp, and my sub wasnt shipped well, so I refused to accept it and got a refund. I am now installing the following in my car. I dont have all of these yet. I am just now starting to do my deadening and it is a b!tch

1)Pioneer Premier DEH-P770 h/u
2)Hifonics amps (not sure which models yet)
3)Oz Audio 6.5" Comps in custom fiberglass kick panels(running off an amp)
4)Either one Resonant Engineering SE 12", or 2 Infinity Reference 12" in a ported box
5)180 sq.ft. of edead (sound dampener)
6) custom built box by me
7)False floor in trunk.

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Post #40 by 68shortbed » Sun May 15, 2005 9:25 pm

Got the head unit installed today! :D My dad helped me get the wiring hooked up. Now I have to wait till both of us are off work at the same again before I can install the speakers.( I have to use 1 of his grinders to trim some of the door.)

Heres some pics.

Image

Before.

Image

After.

Image

My dad tack welded the "holder" to some stainless steel sheet metal to cover the big gaps. I'm going to clean it up and , A. paint it the same color as the truck, B. polish it, or, C. polish it and then put green flames on it, or vice versa.

What do you guys think?
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Gerry Lutz Jr.

Post #41 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Sun May 15, 2005 9:55 pm

I think i'd clean it up and paint. The deck should give the speakers plenty of power. It should be nice. post back with how you like the sound when you get it all back together.

placid warrior

Post #42 by placid warrior » Mon May 16, 2005 2:39 am

i would paint it too...although it looks like its a bit bumpy (from welding?) maybe smooth it out a bit first with some fiberglass or filler (cant really tell how bad it is) I would also round of the corners to match the other rounded corners (on the ash tray and glove box)... should be sweet.

Gerry Lutz Jr.

Post #43 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Mon May 16, 2005 3:16 pm

yah what placid said.

A good thing i've learned from my minor body work experience is if you can see it or feel it when it's bare it will look 3 times as bad after you apply some glossy paint :cry: . If things like that are bothersome to you as they are me, make sure to apply a thin coat of bondo or fiberglass. i'm thinking bondo would probably be easier for that. G/l and post back the results once you've smoothed it out and painted it or flamed it or polished it or what not.

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Post #44 by hasa68mustang » Mon May 16, 2005 8:19 pm

Gerry Lutz Jr. wrote:yah what placid said.

A good thing i've learned from my minor body work experience is if you can see it or feel it when it's bare it will look 3 times as bad after you apply some glossy paint :cry: . If things like that are bothersome to you as they are me, make sure to apply a thin coat of bondo or fiberglass.


Ohhh man you said it... I am EXTREMELY picky... I hate to drive my car around in its current shape.. mainly from others doors/misc things, and hail... When a friend of mine buys a car I always look down the side of it and notice all the dents, its pretty funny when thay are excited when they get a freshly painted WHITE car.... the best color to hid anything... I now understand how smooth something has to be for you to not notice it...
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According to Matt our cars will be elevnty billion times faster than all of yours because our carbs flow 500cfm!!!!

Gerry Lutz Jr.

Post #45 by Gerry Lutz Jr. » Mon May 16, 2005 8:26 pm

Yah im 16 and me and my dad painted our first vehicle together. all i have to say is it requires a lot of bondo to do it the improper way lol! My truck did turn out fairly nice in my opinion though. well at least for a first paintjob. it's bright mettalic red. I'll post a few pics of it here in a couple mins because, i'm bored and won't have the old beast to much longer. My truck was white before i painted it red it didn't show any of the wavieness either. O well you learn from your mistakes right? The paint itself did turn out quite nice though considering.(sorry i didn't resize i hope you guys won't mind resizing for me because, if i resized it via photobucket i'd have to keep them small and i'd rather not because, i'm making a small car portfolio of what i have done and how it was so on for memory's.)

Heres a pic of the tailgate and my litte skull sticker lol. I have a thing with skulls not sure why...
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Heres the sideview with some more stickers.
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Heres another side view with more stickers.
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Heres my newly redone by me and my dad headliner.
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Heres my amplifier all scrated up and such (i keep it under my seat and always scratch it on the seats framing.
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Here's my newly repainted shifter rods and skull shifter and 4 wheel drive shifter knob. The only problem is the dang skull is so heavy when i have it in 1st and foot all the way in on the clutch sometimes it tries to drop in to 2nd lol. O well probably just an old shifter linkage issue. Mounting the skull knob was another ingenious idea of my fathers. we found a nut matching the thread pattern and my dad rounded it over with his bench grinder until it inserted quite tightly in the skulls base.Then we threaded it on the shifter rod. Works much better than the plastic inserts they give you from factory.
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Here's a horrible pic of my woofer and ugly box not customized or anything.
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Here's a pic of my newly painted junkyard door panels. The one's i had when i got it both had small cracks and the driver side was all down hill from when i got it. Mostly because, the crack annoyed me and made it tough to shut the door because, of the panel flexing therefore i hit it cracking it about 3x's as bad.... O well got newer 1's now.
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68shortbed
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Post #46 by 68shortbed » Thu May 19, 2005 3:37 pm

Got the speakers installed today. :D I had to make spacers because the windows hit the magnets when I rolled them down. I made them out of plywood and thier pretty rough, but I guess its ok for my first time to use a jigsaw.

Here's a pic.

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68 F100

460/C6

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I66coupe
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Post #47 by I66coupe » Sun May 22, 2005 4:38 pm

With the speaker mounted in the lower rear portion of the door, the high freqs are aimed right at the seat cushion. Not ideal. Certainly better then nothing though. Consider adding tweeters at some time and placing them to aim towards your head (or at least, higher in the cabin). High freqs are very directional. Open the door, play some music and move your head in front of the speaker and then way to side. You'll hear the difference.

That is the reason higher end systems use component speaker systems. While installing my temporary system for the Power Tour, I used seperate woofers and tweeters for the rear speakers in my '66 Mustang. I aimed the tweeters forward instead of placing them facing up at the rear window. The tilted rear window of the car would reflect the sound into the cabin and probably work well enough for me but I decided to do a bit of extra work and aim them forward.

I don't yet have any front speakers mounted but when I get to it, I'll probably use seperate tweeters for that also. The common kick panel location just aims the highs at your feet. I don't have any ears on my ankles. I may place the fronts from the Chryco van there and add a second set of tweeters in a better location. Space in an early Mustang is at a premium and I have to work with what's there. An older pickup will have more space and better options for speaker location.

You could replace those 4 way 6x9s with a single 6x9 woofer and use 4 or 5" coaxials at a higher location where the 6x9s wouldn't fit. Use bass blockers on the mid/high combo. I never thought mostly blocking the woofer with several other speakers was a great design.

Now, having very little money for my install, and knowing that I will be improving things over the summer and this winter, I went to a local junkyard and pulled the Infinty speaker system out of a Chryco mini-van. 6 speakers in all. Rears were seperate 6x9 woofers and 2" tweeters. The woofers have built-in amps so I had to run power wires in addition to the speaker wires. The fronts from the dash of the van were 5" ( I think, I never did put a tape measure on them) coaxials. They have no amp but do have a cross-over net to block the deep bass and seperate the mids from the highs. With just the rear system running on a JVC head, the sound was far better than I expected. Great bass (won't shake bricks loose from buildings, but real nice anyway) and good, clear mids and highs. I ran the JVC way up in volume and no distortion from the speakers.

Not a real high-end system but for $20 in speakers, I'll take it! If you are on a tight budget, looking in junkyards for some of the high-end factory systems can net you some fine speakers. Chryco used Infinity and someone else had a Bose system (GM?).

I know the Chryco Infinity system had an outboard amp but I didn't use it and don't really need it (when I install the fronts, we'll see). I will be installing a simple 12 volt relay to supply power to the rear speaker/amp combos. I'll use the amp/antenna trigger wire off the head to trigger the relay. Otherwise, the rears would have power on them all the time.
Rande "The Tachyon"
N4ZYV
1966 I6 Coupe.
1965 Jeep Gladiator
1937 International Pickup
1937 Chevy pickup

"If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck"

68_inliner

Post #48 by 68_inliner » Sun May 22, 2005 5:47 pm

Actually...In a high end system, you dont want the tweete pointed straight at your head. Generally, you want your soundstage to sound like it is coming from in front of you, like at a concert. You shouldnt point your tweets directly at your head, b/c they will most liklely sound very harsh, sometimes "even earshattering", depending on what the tweet is made of. Silk usually has a softer and warmer sound to them. Where as aluminum or titanium have a brighter sound to them. They are more detailed at higher volumes than a silk dome is. Which is where crossovers come into play. You can set your crossover to play different frequencies in music. Crossovers only come with component stes though, not coaxial speakers, though some higher end h/u have them built in. Anyway, back on the topic. When building and aiming kick panels, this is one of the best methods to use... ENJOY!

1) Put your front seats where you intend to either drive the car or where you will have them if you plan to compete, this is very very important. I am talking about for and aft, height, seat back tilt angle. If not competing then where you will drive the car at and the passenger side the same.
If you are competing in car audio comps, then all the way back and low but even with the passenger side for height, lean the seats back a bit but not real far to make them uncomfortable.

2) Sit in your seat as you would driving or listening as per above, make sure you are correctly placed, if you tend to drive leaning way forward like some do, you should adjust how you sit, better for your posture anyway, lol, lean back in the seat

3) Have somebody you trust to do this correctly, critically important. Roll the windows up, have them look very very carefully at where the entrance to your eardrum is on your window side ear, left ear, mark it on the window or on the pillar with a small spot of tape.

4) Move to the other front seat and do the same except of course on the right ear this time.

5) Ok to get out of the car now Measure 5" forward and 1.5" down from the spot marked for your ear entrance points on each side of the car, should be two marks on the car now, one for your ears and one forward and down as above.

6) Build some temp baffles for the speakers or the ones you will use, what I do. Have the tweeters mounted very low and to the door side of the baffle, the woofers go furthest forward and low as well.

7) Aim the woofers(midbasses) exactly at the forward and down spot on the glass you marked.
This is the sweet spot, instead of fighting the glass reflections you are using them to your advantage. The right speaker will reflect off the left glass into your left ear and help equalize the sound you hear from both speakers, seems odd but it works, exceptionally well.

8)Take a kitchen towel and put it behind the baffels can cover the back of the speakers, then do some serious listening tests to see if you need to align them differently but this should be pretty darn accurate.

9) Be very carefull when glassing the kicks as the glass can pull them out of alignment when drying as tends to shrink so mount the baffles very well before glassing.

10) Wire the midbass on the passenger out of phase with the drivers side midbass, you may lose some midbass output but the sub can help make up for that quite well when tuned properly, better yet to have some midbasses in the doors.

I hope this helps clear some things up for y'all.

L8tr,
Roman
Last edited by 68_inliner on Sun May 22, 2005 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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I66coupe
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Post #49 by I66coupe » Sun May 22, 2005 7:12 pm

I understand about not aiming the tweeter right at your ears but aiming them at the seat cushion under your butt is not the way to go. I have the tweeters in the back of my Mustang monted in such a way that I can swivel them left and right. I plan to optimize their aiming as I get used to the sound.

My point was to get the highs aimed up from where he has them now. Bose has done scads of research with direct and reflecting sound. This idea of using reflecting sound works great. IF you sit in the same place and don't change the enviroment. Like rolling your window down or having a passenger putting his legs in front of the right side speakers.

Thats a lot of trouble to go through for a real world vehicle.

Why wire the mids out of phase? Is it because of the reflection?
Rande "The Tachyon"
N4ZYV
1966 I6 Coupe.
1965 Jeep Gladiator
1937 International Pickup
1937 Chevy pickup

"If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck"

68_inliner

Post #50 by 68_inliner » Sun May 22, 2005 7:50 pm

You are correct about raising up the soundstage up. You want it to be up and in front of you. Not at your waist. Generally, it's MUCH more difficult to get a system to sound good in both seats. The only way to really do it is to tailor it for the center of the vehicle, so each seat is an equal distance. Once you start aiming for one seat or the other, the farther one will sound worse. The reason you wire them out of phase is to get them to have the same relative polarity....there are two types of polarity, absolute and relative...when you wire all your speakers + to + and - to - they are all in absolute polarity (unless u use jbl drivers which are all wired oppositely) but in a car we are different distances from the left and right speakers and as such they might not have the same relative polarity from the driver's and passenger's seats....wiring them out of absolute polarity(out of phase at listening positions) might get em in phase and as such have the same relative polarity....the point is to get all the speakers in phase at the listening positions, not that all the speakers are wired the same...using time alignment will somewhat modify this rule of thumb(wiring the mids out of phase).....

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