Ford EDIS

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thesameguy
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Ford EDIS

Post #1 by thesameguy » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:11 pm

I've got my old 170 sitting on the ground, and a new-to-me 200 sitting a little further away on the ground. I've got Pertronix on my old LoM 1/4" drive distributor, and points on the new LoM 5/16" drive distributor. I've got a recently rebuild Holley 1904 on the old motor, and an unknown (but reputed good) Holley 1940 sans SCV on the new motor. What to do...

1. My Holley 1904 onto the new motor, and move my Pertronix to the new distributor. That gives me a carb-> distributor / SCV -> LoM match for about $0.
2. Buy a '68+ distributor and a new Pertronix module and use the existing non-SCV carb. That's a non-SCV / conventional distributor match for somewhere between $100 and $150 depending on whether the distributor is used or new.
3. Invest in a DSII ignition conversion. That's somewhere between $100 and $300, depending on where the DSII parts come from (junkyard, rockauto, Classic Inlines, etc.)
4. Move to new tech: Ford EDIS-6 run from a Megajolt controller. That's about $300-$350, it seems - $150 for the MJ, $50-$100 for the EDIS parts, and then about $100 for the trigger wheel setup.

I am really leaning to #4 - a fully programmable ignition system for not much more than a CI DSII setup sounds pretty cool to me. It wouldn't look anything approaching period, but IMO not much worse than a big ol' DSII dizzy and some electronics hanging off it.

That leads me to these questions:

1. Will the single-belt crank pulley from my '62 170 fit on the '67/'68 200? It has a dual-belt pulley on it now, but has a single-belt alternator conversion so one pulley is doing nothing anyway. My single-belt crank pulley is six months old, in perfect shape. Losing that extra depth makes room for a trigger wheel.

2. Related, does anyone make or was there ever available a single-belt water pump pulley?

3. Does anyone have any recent experience with EDIS on an old six? Any ignition maps you'd like to share?

I'm not sold on EDIS, but it sounds like fun to me. :)

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #2 by MPGmustang » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:13 pm

there are options, I vote to control your own timing... any version...

I'm personally going to a GM OBDI ecm+tbi, and having it control my DUI (I have to send it in to them to convert it over) then I'll go and mod the ECM so I can control it.

many options out there...
65mustang-SOLD-200ci-t5-scarebird disks-vintage air ac-264/274 110 cam-mav 8inch 3.8 open-350cfm-CI headers
66 Bronco-SOLD-i6 170 - rust bucket never ran...
75 bronco-SOLD-v8 c4 dana 20 33's and disk brakes, locker front/rear.

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #3 by thesameguy » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:01 pm

I am going to stay with a carburetor for now - I am not going to put a dime into fuel injecting the six. So whatever my ignition solution is it's going to be stand alone, and Ford EDIS a very competent system and Megajolt insanely simple to wire up and run and the final product is extremely compact. Of all the stand alone systems out there, it offers the best value. If that's the road I'm going down, I just need to know whether my good single-belt crank pulley will fit on the later crank. It seems like it will since it's the same part number across a variety of '60s and '70s Fords, but I just don't know if something special was done to accommodate the double belt.

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #4 by thesameguy » Fri May 11, 2012 1:08 pm

Thought I'd follow up on this.

I ended up sending my crank pulley out to Miller's Mule in Katy, TX. Jason Miller designed a trigger wheel to bolt onto the pulley and get me what EDIS expects:

Image

The price was a very reasonable $120 - if anyone is looking for something like this, he has the design now and could sure make more of them. It should bolt to either a single-belt or double-belt pulley, but obviously would prevent you from running a third belt for power steering or AC.

I was concerned that wheel would interfere with the fan, but it doesn't. Unfortunately, the attaching hardware does:

Image

I'm not concerned about this right now since I won't be running EDIS anytime in the immediate future. I just wanted to have all the pieces designed and available while the motor was out of the car. At this point, I just want to get the car back on the road for the warm months - I'll get back to this once the rain comes back.

I am going to pick up some button head bolts to see if they cure the fan->trigger interference, but if not I will just remove the trigger wheel for now. When I actually move forward with it, I'll either get a slightly thinner radiator and space the fan out from the pulley, or convert over to an electric fan.

Tonight I am going to finish the bracket that will hold the crank sensor to see if it adds any more interference to consider, but it's pretty slim so I should be ok. I'll get some pictures up of that this weekend.

Only things left to figure out (which aren't important now) are what spark plug wires to use, and what MAP sensor to buy. The whole thing will come in substantially under $500, which I think is cheap money for a fully-programmable solid state ignition system that can be as aggressive or as economical as I want it to be. Not to mention built entirely using cheapo '90s era Ford parts that any parts store will carry.

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #5 by Luckyman » Fri May 11, 2012 5:02 pm

Excellent work! :thumbup: :thumbup: Thanks for sharing valuable research. :beer:
1 "76" F150 RC, LB, 2WD, 300, NP435, 9" open 3.00, special order 2-76/Delivered 4-76. Still "new".

1 "73-79" F150 RC/SS/SB/4WD, "84"-300, T18, NP205, 9" open 3.50, Dana 44 3.50 open, Offy DP, Holley 470, EFI + single 2.5" exhaust. Gathered from 15+ donor/parts trucks. "Fubar". Runs good, safe, still needs details/project continues.

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #6 by thesameguy » Mon May 14, 2012 12:36 pm

Final piece of the puzzle:

Image

Larger pics:
http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/mi ... acket1.jpg
http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/mi ... acket2.jpg
http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/mi ... acket3.jpg

I would have liked to have it an inch or so higher, but bar aluminum is what I had, and I don't really have the tools for more significant fabribation. Bar stock + Dremel + drill got the job done. I also picked up some button head bolts for the trigger wheel which addressed the fan clearance issue.

I replaced the two bolts on the timing cover with all thread, then installed lock washers and nuts and torqued those down to spec. Then a spacer, the bracket, and more nuts. That way I can remove the bracket without messing with the timing cover. The top hole of the bracket is slotted (not in pictures - I did it after) to give me a little angular adjustment of the sensor, and the lower holes are just slots so I can adjust the sensor gap. The sensor->trigger wheel gap is .030 to .060, and apparently different sensors are happier at different gaps so adjustment room is important to optimize performance. Crank sensor itself is a Standard Motor Products PC51, which is from piles of Ford cars including '90s (RWD) T-birds and Cougars with a V6.

There is a specific orientation for the trigger wheel. At TDC, the sensor needs to be at the 6th tooth behind the missing tooth. That's why the mounting for the trigger wheel is adjustable - to account for position of the crank sensor and the position of the wheel itself. Here's an image of relative placement of parts for EDIS:

http://www.planetcampbell.us/TriggerWhe ... itions.gif

I am going to put the motor back in the car this week, and then start collecting the rest of the EDIS parts. Installing EDIS at this point would just be a small amount of wiring and making up some sort of bracket to hold the coil packs in place. I am not sure whether I'll mount them to the engine (where the coil currently is) or on the fender. Probably on the engine, otherwise there will be a mess of spark plug wires hanging in the breeze. ;)

Question: Is there a part from some other Ford car that I can use in place the distributor so the oil pump still has a drive, or do I need to hack the top off of a distributor? I don't think any derivative of the six ever had a cam-driven distributor or distributorless ignition, so I'm not sure why that part would exist, but thought it was worth asking. :)

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #7 by bubba22349 » Mon May 14, 2012 3:21 pm

I think your right about needing to use the base of an old 200 distributor to drive oil pump don't know of any V6 part that might work. The Ford 5.0 in the Explorer / Mountaineer uses that type of stub distributor to drive oil pump and I think as a cam position sensor. So maybe a combo of parts adapting the top of the 5.0 part to use for cam position sensor with that 200 base or if the V8 stub could be re-machined to fit a 200 and then use the 200 drive gear.
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #8 by thesameguy » Mon May 14, 2012 5:30 pm

bubba22349 wrote:I think your right about needing to use the base of an old 200 distributor to drive oil pump don't know of any V6 part that might work. The Ford 5.0 in the Explorer / Mountaineer uses that type of stub distributor to drive oil pump and I think as a cam position sensor. So maybe a combo of parts adapting the top of the 5.0 part to use for cam position sensor with that 200 base or if the V8 stub could be re-machined to fit a 200 and then use the 200 drive gear.


That could be a good setup - I'll have to go find one to play around with. Thanks!

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #9 by MPGmustang » Mon May 14, 2012 5:47 pm

I think this is great!!!

keep it up, and document everything as I am sure others might want to follow suit, or even make a kit and sell to other i6 fanatics... like me!
65mustang-SOLD-200ci-t5-scarebird disks-vintage air ac-264/274 110 cam-mav 8inch 3.8 open-350cfm-CI headers
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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #10 by thesameguy » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:51 pm

bubba22349 wrote:I think your right about needing to use the base of an old 200 distributor to drive oil pump don't know of any V6 part that might work. The Ford 5.0 in the Explorer / Mountaineer uses that type of stub distributor to drive oil pump and I think as a cam position sensor. So maybe a combo of parts adapting the top of the 5.0 part to use for cam position sensor with that 200 base or if the V8 stub could be re-machined to fit a 200 and then use the 200 drive gear.


Edging closer to this, and it looks like all the motors in the Explorer used this type of an arrangement. Dorman makes all of 'em:

http://www.dormanproducts.com/catalog/O ... nizers.pdf

That begs the question, is there a chance any of these engines are known to be dimensionally similar to the I6? The 689-105 (for a 4.0l) looks to be very similar to a stock 200 dizzy. Shoulda looked for one at the junkyard on Saturday but forgot. :(

Edit: Looks like the same type thing (a "camshaft synchronizer") was installed in later Vulcan V6s, as in the Ranger and Taurus. Wonder if the not-nice people at the local Ford dismantler will let me play with their collection?

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #11 by XFlow_Fairlane » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:41 pm

yet again I point out the easy and cheap fix....

cam sensor from a 2.3L OHC ford.....they are about $50 new

press off the 2.3L pump drive gear and press on a 200 gear and drill for the pin.

done.

or if you want a locked dizzy....

2.3L OHC dizzy
swap gears as above
install a reluctor of a batch fire V6 ford (CFI 3.8L cars have these)
install V6 cap from a 6 cylinder TFI equiped ford.

This will give you a drop in TFI module distributor for EFI (I would skip the megajolt and just put in a MS1 with this....could got to EFI with just more wiring at this point)
Rule: Torque = Fun , Turbo's make Torque

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #12 by thesameguy » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:53 am

I appreciate the reminder about the 2.3 cam synchronizer - I thought I'd read that somewhere but couldn't find it.

I am not interested in TFI (too many issues) or Megasquirt (I will never fuel inject the six). Megajolt was the decision after a lot of reading & searching. It's a good match for what I need & want, and the total cost will be inline with a CI DUI. More than I should spend, but still within reason.

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #13 by thesameguy » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:06 pm

After some consideration, I think rather than trying to mount the coil to the fuel pump cover, I'm going to see about getting a friend of mine to produce a bracket for the coil, something like this:

Image

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/coilprj/steel.pdf

Idea is to mount it to the holes where the coil normally bolts.

My only concern with this setup is that it may not be "stable" against a vibrating motor with just two bolts on one side, but I think given a heavy enough material it'd be okay. If it turns out critical, I could add a brace to go from the side/bottom over to the clutch pivot point (which I am not using). I am also not sure that both side braces would be necessary, but I put them in anyway. I'll get the opinion of the guy who is actually going to make it.

And that begs the question, should I make more than one? Is this something anyone else would be interested in? I imagine since the pattern exists anyone could replicate it, so perhaps making more than one now would just be wasteful...

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #14 by pikesan » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:28 pm

Following this post now... very cool!
See all my cars here: Pikesan's Garage What's in your garage?

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #15 by thesameguy » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:22 pm

I will be dropping my mockup bracket off this weekend and having it turned into something useful. After that, I just need to figure out some spark plug wires and order the controller. Probably still a month out, but what could possibly go wrong? ;)

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #16 by thesameguy » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:58 pm

Took a while to get my bracket made, but it's done.

Image

Threw it on a spare motor to see what it looks like - going to paint it to prevent rust this weekend.

I'm currently buried fixing up a friend's PT Cruiser, but I'm going to order the controller in a week or two... the last piece of this puzzle!

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #17 by bubba22349 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:36 pm

:thumbup: looks good!
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #18 by thesameguy » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:04 pm

Some other info, as my sloooooow project progresses -

I needed a connector for my VR sensor to build a wiring harness. Rockauto carries a pigtail for about $25, which seemed insane. The Standard Motor Products PC51 VR sensor I am using to pick up the trigger wheel is from a bunch of RWD V6s, but getting to the sensor on those cars is a HUGE PITA. The connector is common across a few VR sensors, including the SMP PC74, used on the OHV V6 in oval Tauruses. On those cars, the sensor is easily accessible from the top of the motor on the passenger side of the car. The harness squiggles up before disappearing into a huge connector on the firewall, but there is a good 2' of perfectly usable harness that you can get to easily with a 10mm socket (remove the big connector from the firewall) and a wire cutter (cut zip ties, remove insulation). Easy. This harness is useful as the VR sensor needs shielded wire to cut electrical interference from messing up the signal.

I also needed a connector for the EDIS6 module. Any mid/late '90s Explorer or Ranger has that. The EDIS module is located on the front crossmember, passenger side, right next to the radiator/behind the headlight. It's a single 6mm or 7mm (can't remember) hex to get the thing out. The harness goes up the passenger side of the car, under the fusebox (which lifts out, no hardware) and then disappears under the brake booster. I was able to get a very good 30" of harness, including more shielded wire for the VR sensor and what I hope will be enough shielded wire to connect to the controller. If you are building one of these, grab the EDIS6 module as well, as they are pretty durable (used = ok) and new ones are insanely pricey!

I like using factory wiring wherever possible so that colors match (for later troubleshooting ;)) and so I have some comfort in its durability. If you prefer to just buy wiring, both Mouser and McMaster-Carr have shielded duplex wiring in varying lengths. McMaster-Carr part number 8219K61 seems like a good match - it's 18ga duplex shielded with PTFE insulation and near 400-degree temperature resistance. If my scavenged wiring ends up short, that'll be my go-to since it's available by the foot. But, my solution has me out of pocket $6, so here's to hoping. ;)

When I installed the Pertronix, I used a SPST relay triggered by the ignition switch and pulling straight from the battery for power. The relay is right by the brake booster, behind the driver's side shock tower. I'm going to repurpose that relay block and swap in an SPDT relay to power the coil pack, EDIS6, and the Megajolt controller. You've seen where the coil and the sensor are. The EDIS6 module is going right under the relay block, to minimize the wiring length between it, the coil pack, and the Megajolt controller. Given the factory placement of the EDIS6 module right by the radiator and hidden behind headlights, I assume it doesn't mind heat and doesn't need much direct airflow, so I think my placement on the Falcon is sane.

Only thing left to do is figure out spark plug wires. The coil pack uses a funky latching connector, so standard wires won't work. I think I'm going to turn back to the OHV V6 there - the relative location of coil pack to spark plugs seems similar to the I6, so hopefully I won't have messy wires hanging around. I hate that. ;)

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #19 by thesameguy » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:21 pm

I am waiting for my Megajolt controller to ship, but my attention turned back to "what goes in the distributor hole" question. There was discussion about hacking off the top of the stock distributor, or using a cam synchronizer from a later car, but it appears the correct answer is an oil pump drive from a 1991-1993 Mustang with a 2.3l. There's one on ebay now:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-2-3-Distri ... mp;vxp=mtr

Super clean solution! Just needs the drive gear swapped and that should be pretty easy. Off to the junkyard!

I also ordered a couple sets of spark plug wires from various Ford vehicles to see what fit the best. Ideal solution seems to be three sets of wires from a '96-'00 Taurus/Sable with the 3.0l OHV motor. Yeah, I could make do with one set and have some extra length, but I really just need six super-short spark plug wires. Denso 6716089 wires, which are $14/set from Rockauto and pretty good 8mm wires. So, $45 solves the problem and will look neat and tidy. And maybe I can find someone who needs the other 12. ;)

Megajolt has an input for a temperature sensor, which is used to modify the ignition map. That is going to be super handy for getting a reliable cold start with a carburetor without giving up economy/performance once it's warmed up. That feature right there is worth the price of admission to me. It uses a GM sensor (like Megasquirt), #12146312. That's also:

Standard Motor Products part: TX3
Airtex part: 5S1018
BWD part: WT3000
ACDELCO part: 213928

It's on MOUNTAINS of '80s & '90s GM cars including 1993-1997 V8 F-bodies and most '85-'92 F-bodies. I junkyarded mine (and grabbed some wiring while I was there), but the sensor is only $15 new and a wiring pigtail is available for another $15 or so if you prefer new. Threads are 3/8" x 18 NPT, and it happily threads right into the plug on the thermostat housing.

That's where I am. I have all the pieces except the actual brain, which hopefully will be here within the next week or two.

Total cost:

Megajolt Controller, with pre-installed hard rev limiter and MAP sensor and programming cable: $200.00
EDIS-6 coil pack (Airtex part: 5C1123): $52
Bracket for coil pack (friend of a friend): $20
EDIS-6 module (Airtex part: 6H1107): $15 (@junkyard, $150+ new)
3x Spark Plug Wires (Denso part: 6716089): $45
Trigger wheel (Miller's Mule custom part): $120
VR Pickup (Standard Motor Products PC51): $25
Temp Sensor (Airtex part: 5S1018): $1 (@junkyard, $8 new)
Misc wiring (VR sensor, coil pack, EDIS module, temp sensor): $10 (junkyard, around $50 new as pigtails)

$488

I think this compares very favorably price-wise to other ignition solutions out there and offers the advantage of full programmability and temperature compensation. Time will tell how well it works, but I'm optimistic. ;)

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #20 by bubba22349 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:52 pm

:thumbup: :nod: be waiting to hear how you like it.
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #21 by thesameguy » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:36 pm

Controller just shipped, so it shouldn't be too long before I know! :) Hopefully the weather holds out. I'll drive the Falcon in the cold, but not in the rain.

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #22 by thesameguy » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:30 pm

Got some work done on the Falcon yesterday. It was so bloody cold outside I couldn't work for too long before my hands got numb, so I didn't get all that much done.

First thing - I cleaned out the driver's side of the motor. The distributor is still there because, right now, it runs the oil pump and I kinda need that. Eventually it'll get replaced with something taking up less space.

Image

My completed bracket, and the little 10-32 (IIRC) allen heads hold the coil pack to the bracket. The bracket bolts to the side of the motor, where the oil coil went. There are only two 5/16-18 bolts there, but it's rock solid. I had to use two small (1/4") spacers to move it out from the block, as there was a little protrusion that kept it from mounting flush.

Image
Image
Image

I was so proud of my simple VR (crank) sensor bracket I put together while the engine was out of the car. What I did not anticipate was interference from the radiator outlet! I was shy about 1/2", and there was no way to get the actual connector for the sensor on! DOH! I had to modify my bracket to move the sensor down further. It works, but it's not as stable as before. I'm going to see about having someone with fabrication tools make a better one, but this is totally functional for now.

Image

I stuck the EDIS module under the brake master cylinder. On the Ford trucks it comes from, it's always mounted up by the battery, behind the headlight. I'm not sure whether this is a convenience thing, or an attempt to isolate it from heat, or what. I've got good new wiring going to this location, and since the motor isn't crossflow heat should be minimal on this side of the engine so I think it's a reasonable choice. It also minimizes wiring to the coil pack and the Megajolt controller.

Image

And, this is the beginning on the next part of this project - sorting this stuff out and sticking it in the Falcon. Plan is to run the temp sensor and VR sensor from the engine across to the fender, and then down the engine bay towards the EDIS module. EDIS module has an 8" "jump" across the engine bay to the coil pack. Then, I have a short (2'?) run from the EDIS module into the cabin & the Megajolt. Easy, right?

Image

Gonna try and put some time in this evening, but between early sunset and cold weather, I'm not sure that's gonna happen. May have to wait until next weekend - the anticipation is killing me! :)


P.S. There are higher res versions of these pictures here:

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/co ... out_sm.JPG
http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/co ... ket_sm.JPG
http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/co ... olt_sm.JPG
http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/co ... led_sm.JPG
http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/co ... dvr_sm.JPG
http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/co ... ule_sm.JPG
http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/co ... res_sm.JPG

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #23 by thesameguy » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:34 pm

I spent a little time Monday night doing some wiring on the Falcon, but not much because it was cold and dark and I remembered I had a 7:30p dinner. I was pretty hasty in my assembly but following the diagrams on Autosport Labs was not difficult. I sprayed some carb cleaner in the carb and turned it over... it stuttered, halted, and backfired. Something was wrong. I double checked my wiring and it was *exactly* as indicated, so I figured the indications were wrong.

After dinner, I spent many hours googling as many wiring diagrams for '95-'05 V6 cars and trucks as I could. I was kind of shocked in that Ranger owners by far and away had more information posted on Ford V6s than any other single model. Ranger forums across the world were very helpful!

A bunch of technical stuff that nobody probably cares about:

ALL the documentation for Megasquirt and Megajolt label the coil towers left to right, with the connector facing the viewer. This is not how Ford labels the towers. Additionally, the Megajolt (and I assume Megasquirt) shows the connection of EDIS to the coilpack in a different order than Ford does. In combination this double-mislabeling works, but if you're trying to compare Ford wiring diagrams and Ford-labeled parts to what you're doing, it doesn't.

Also, Ford sold two virtually identical versions of the six cylinder coil pack - one with power on the #1 pin, and one with power on #4. I can't see any outward difference between the two, and even worse they used both at the same time, just in different vehicular applications. A '96 Mustang 3.8l V6 or a '98 F-150 4.2 V6 has the power on #4 (as the Megajolt installation manual shows), a '90-'11 Ranger 4.0 V6 has power on #1. So, there doesn't appear to be any obvious year split. ALL the MJ & MS documentation assumes you've got a coil pack with power on #4. You have to know where your coil came from in order to know!

In factory manuals, Ford labels the coil IN FIRING ORDER, not simply left to right as MS and MJ do. With the coil pack connector facing the viewer, MS & MJ just label them A,B,C (left to right), and then state the coil pack is fired A,C,B. That makes ZERO sense. Ford labels the towers B,C,A or 2,3,1 from left to right, so firing order makes a far more sensical A,B,C or 1,2,3. The pins on the coil are ordered the same. Once you have located/eliminated the correct power pin, the left pin is left tower, middle pin in middle tower, right pin is right tower.

In the end, it doesn't matter which tower is which letter or number, and here's why: Each pair of towers (remember, this is wasted spark) is triggered by a specific output from the EDIS ("ignition control") module. EDIS fires Pin 10, then pin 12, then pin 11. You can connect 10,11,12 to whichever coil pack pins you want SO LONG AS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'VE DONE and plug in your spark plug wires accordingly.

I have not found this simple fact in any documentation for either system, just a lot of "if you do it this way you'll be okay." The problem with that if you actually look at the parts and their factory labeling, it seems in opposition to what the install guides are telling you to do. If you noodle on it for a while, it'll make sense... but why not just tell technically minded people who are doing something pretty complex in the first place the truth!? This becomes double troublesome since there is no acknowledgement of the "other" ignition coil... the one with power on pin #1 instead of pin #4! If you've got one of those, everything falls apart.


Once I discovered there were two versions of the coil that look virtually identical and confirmed how EDIS interacts with the coil, everything made sense. Bottom line is that if you follow the MJ or MS installation manual AND have a coil with power on #4 AND connect EDIS to the coil pack as described everything will be fine.

HOWEVER, if you have power on Pin #1 and/or you ever want to use any Ford literature to troubleshoot following those instructions will just cause confusion and, in my case, total failure.

The PROPER way to wire these things up is:

Coil Power on Pin 4: EDIS 10,11,12 to coil pack 3,2,1 resp.
Coil Power on Pin 1: EDIS 10,11,12 to coil pack 4,3,2 resp.

That wiring mirrors the factory!

So I did that. And it started right up and set into a damn decent idle!

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/co ... art_sm.mp4

This is a cold start - the car hasn't moved since Saturday and had been idling just long enough for me to power on the camera. It's about 45 degrees outside. The car is running on EDIS6 in "limp home mode." Megajolt is not connected, so timing is a static 10 (IIRC) degrees BTDC. I wanted to be sure my VR sensor could sense the trigger wheel and my used EDIS module was working before introducing complications. Clearly, it is!

All the wiring is literally just twisted together and electrical taped right now, so tonight I am going to make those connections permanent with proper wire lengths, etc. I'll probably wait until the weekend to actually install the Megajolt controller. Aside from the timing maps, the hard part of this project is DONE.
Last edited by thesameguy on Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #24 by thesameguy » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:42 pm

Also, for those of you playing at home, given you are wiring the coilpack as I have this is the correct configuraton:

5 4 6
2 3 1
4pin


"4pin" is where the 4-pin input connector is (i.e. closest to you). Most coilpacks will have all the towers labeled, and #1 is where #1 is indicated. The other five will be different.

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #25 by thesameguy » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:29 pm

Falcon runs AWESOME on EDIS. Super smooth idle (better than it's EVER been), super stable idle. Put about 30 miles on it today with not a single hiccup or weirdness. I have a very simple ignition map, just rpm vs. advance with no accounting for temp or load. I figure it's no worse than the factory centrifugal advance would be. Got some baselines for MAP and RPM behavior, so now it's on to some optimizing. Big thanks to E4ODnut for getting the ball rolling!

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #26 by bmbm40 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:45 pm

Very innovative and a job well done. I can see others doing this. It would be interesting to know what hp/tq increases this provides although the increased driveability is a worthwhile improvement to be sure. I like the use of Ford parts available from wrecking yards to build an advanced ignition system.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #27 by thesameguy » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:33 pm

I was going to dyno this thing before, but frankly I'm not sure how meaningful it would have been. I've got a 50 year old unrestored car, so really, who knows what sort of condition anything is in? I don't think those results would be applicable to any other car. I do however want to put it on a dyno now, as tuning the ignition on the road with a 2-speed automatic is a little rough. ;) I think it's safe to say that if the CI DUI is good for +15hp, this setup must good for at least that.

I too am happy it's all Ford parts (save the temp sensor). I suppose distributorless ignition is a little out of time, but it looks pretty darned good under the hood nonetheless. Although, not sure how prevalent a USB cable hanging out of the dash was in '62. ;)

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #28 by thesameguy » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:54 pm

Here is the Megajolt Configuration utility with the car running.

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/co ... mj_map.JPG

You can see the simple ignition map I am starting with. I hooked up the temp sensor yesterday but it's not doing anything.

Cranking advance is set to 10 degrees. I thought that would be pretty conservative, but surprisingly it's right on the border of reliable starter kickback. The car starts pretty easily except when very, very cold (sub 40 degrees) - just the slightest throttle and it's live.

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #29 by bmbm40 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:38 pm

Keep us posted on your ignition as you tweak it. Are you planning other upgrades? I saw on a autolite carb site a description of the 2100 as being close to a throttle body device- the 2100 would be real nice with this ignition. Might feel real close to fuel injection.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #30 by thesameguy » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:33 pm

The only remaining thing I am working on right now is a formal heater control valve, which I should be finished with this weekend.

I'm going to spend a little time getting a feel for the car as-is, and maybe do some additional tweaking of the ignition maps. I feel like I am running pretty significant advance at this point (14 degrees just off idle, up to 38 degrees at 3500rpm) with absolutely no signs of problems. No pinging, A:F looks good, car runs great, and fuel economy has been dramatically improved. It just seems I should be accounting for load, but it's possible that without a better fuel system trimming the ignition for load is sort of a pointless endeavor. I dunno... still working on that. :)

Down the road, maybe closer to summer, the two things I want to do are a set of CI headers and a new carb... I am just not satisfied with the 1940's cold start performance. I know it can be better. These are both things I've wanted to do for a long time, but I just never felt all that great about the six with the Pertronix... I kept thinking engine swap, and thus putting money into the six didn't seem wise. The EDIS has totally changed that. It's just so darned pleasant to drive now my reservations about giving it a little boost are gone. I was thinking about a Carter, but am totally open to a 2100 as well. I just need to look into what's involved with fitting them.

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #31 by thesameguy » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:34 pm

I went by the junkyard last weekend, and amazingly there were two '92 4-cylinder Mustangs there. I almost pulled the whole motor I was so happy (can't have too many 2.3l Lima parts around!), but instead I just pulled the oil pump drive.

Here is what it looks like removed:

Image

Couple things are true:

1. The gear is different compared to a six. It's at least a different diameter, didn't bother counting the teeth.
2. The shaft size is the same between the two, but there is a crown on top of the six's gear that interferes with the body of Mustang part.
3. The shaft on the Mustang part is about 1/4" longer from gear to nose than on the six. The recess/drive for the oil pump shaft is about 1/4" deeper than the six's distributor, so it could lose some length.

Here's an image approximating the gear interference:

Image

So.... I dropped the gear and pump drive off at a machine stop. They are gonna turn down the gear and trim the nose off the shaft. Hopefully that does it. I can't see any immediate reason why it won't.

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #32 by thesameguy » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:23 pm

Got the oil pump drive back from the machine shop.

This picture shows the modified drive versus the original. Notice the top of the gear (post above) has been machined off, and the nose of drive has been removed. The 2.3l four is thicker than the small six here, so the drive is about 1/4" longer.

Image

Here is the measurement between the tip of the drive the hole for the roll pin. This measurement is on a 200ci six distributor shaft with the gear removed. This is what you need to get the shaft on the 2.3l oil pump drive down to.

Image

And, finally, here it is installed. Although a total anachronism, it just about looks like this motor was designed to have distributorless ignition from the beginning! I used the hold down from the 2.3l motor, as it fits much better of the drive that the stock piece. I had to hack it in half and redrill the hole, but it's a better fit and I won't have to worry about the drive floating out the block. ;)

Image

Only point of concern for me is that I got the gear installed properly vertically. Pretty sure my measurements were all good, but I snapped some pictures of the teeth on the drive gear and will check out wear in a while to make sure it doesn't need adjustment.

This project is pretty much DONE. I am really looking forward to many months of driving this car and NOT working on it. :)

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #33 by bmbm40 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:40 pm

It looks great. You should have a good time driving it from what you have decribed so far. I don't mind working on them but would much rather drive them. Can't wait to hear of your next mods.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #34 by thesameguy » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:07 pm

I really want the answer to that to be "CI header" or "disc brakes" but the correct answer is paint and weather stripping. We'll see if I can pull that off. ;)

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #35 by falcon fanatic » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:13 pm

Subscribe! Working up to install an Electromotive TEC unit on mine and going to start ignition only. This is a great guide for that. thanks for your hard work.
'63 Futura Convertible. Disc/drum, Bilsteins, beefy swaybars, #480 springs, roller or spherical everything up front, HD shackles on stock springs out back. Megasquirt FI on ported, big valve aussie head w/ roller rockers; 10:1 6000rpm engine; 264/274-12*; C-4, Maverick 8" 3.25 W/trac-lok and perimeter frame inside the unibody. More to come...
http://falconfanatic.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #36 by thesameguy » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:52 pm

Absolutely. I have been so pleased with this result that I am planning to do the same with my '67 Fleetwood next winter. It's ultimately so very little work I can't think of a single reason not to! :)

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #37 by CoupeBoy » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:09 pm

Can you verify for me that your trigger wheel
Trigger wheel (Miller's Mule custom part): $120
has 35 teeth and that the missing tooth spot is the same size as the would be 36th tooth? And that do you have a recommendation for how much larger in diameter the trigger wheel needs to be than the harmonic balancer/pulley?

thanks,
-ron
1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #38 by thesameguy » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:22 pm

Correct - it's a 36-1 (that is, thirty six minus one) trigger wheel. The sensor picks up a waveform generated by the 35 teeth, and the missing 36th tooth creates a break in the wave so the control unit knows TDC. The trigger wheel doesn't explicitly need to be bigger than the harmonic balancer - its function is largely dictated by the distance of the sensor and the relative size of the teeth (peak to valley). As long as whatever the wheel is next to is consistent and doesn't have an unpredictable magnetic effect you'll be fine. Here's mine:

http://www.sacsaabs.org/sacsaabs.org/mi ... l0.jpg.jpg

You can see the teeth are just just a fraction of an inch larger than the pulley. The result has been VERY accurate RPM sensing.

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #39 by bmbm40 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:20 pm

An interesting article found the link on classicbroncos.com

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/ ... 1021035995
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #40 by thesameguy » Tue May 07, 2013 1:54 am

Gonna link to this other thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=70110

It seems a 65a alternator isn't quite enough to run EDIS and the rest of the car reliably under worst-case circumstances. I'd say moving to a higher output alternator is good insurance if you're going this route.

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #41 by thesameguy » Sun May 19, 2013 5:48 pm

Car has done just over 1,000 miles now, which is notable not only because it's done barely more than that in the last three years, but also because it's only taken four tanks of gas. ;) *Much* better fuel economy since the swap, mid to high 20s pretty reliably where previously I was averaging mid teens. In the car's defense, I'm sure a lot of that poor mileage was a result of running an LoM carb without an LoM distributor. I probably do 60-70% surface street driving, since the 2-speed auto and 3.50 rear end isn't much fun on the freeway. That's about 3400rpm.

Anyway, I pulled the plugs yesterday to replace them with iridium plugs. More experimental than anything else - I figure these plugs do well on other cars with similar ignition systems, so I wanted to see what they do - if anything - on the Falcon.

The plugs than came out have around 1,500 miles on them. 500 of that was on the old ignition and they did NOT look pretty when I fired up the EDIS. Quite black from an obviously rich mixture. 1,000 miles with a modern ignition system actually cleaned them up quite a bit! There is some baked-on carbon, but otherwise they look quite healthy to me! They are NGK V-Power (copper/resistor) plugs.

Image

Image

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #42 by falcon fanatic » Mon May 20, 2013 8:00 pm

Looks good. I dropped some cash on the iridium plugs and drove from DC to boulder last summer - 1,750 miles - and then a bit around town here in Boulder. Took the plugs out at around 2000 miles and they were starting to disintegrate. Not sure why, haven't had that problem with other plugs and the iridium plugs in my Infinity have 55,000 miles on them with no problems, but you should check them periodically to make sure they are doing well in your engine.
'63 Futura Convertible. Disc/drum, Bilsteins, beefy swaybars, #480 springs, roller or spherical everything up front, HD shackles on stock springs out back. Megasquirt FI on ported, big valve aussie head w/ roller rockers; 10:1 6000rpm engine; 264/274-12*; C-4, Maverick 8" 3.25 W/trac-lok and perimeter frame inside the unibody. More to come...
http://falconfanatic.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #43 by thesameguy » Tue May 21, 2013 2:28 pm

I will definitely pull them out periodically.

IME, some cars *really* don't like iridium plugs - my Saab would be a good example of that. I think it has more to do with the ignition system than anything, though. Now that you mention it, though, I could see how a mixture problem could also give them grief, since there isn't much electrode there. A rich mixture that fouls the plugs would probably have a pretty profound effect on the pointy iridiums.

In any case, it's something I plan to find out sooner rather than later as I intend to drive this car to Vegas in September. 1000 mile road trip in a '62 automatic Falcon? Surewhynot. What could possibly go wrong? :)

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #44 by MustangSix » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:50 am

I just ran across this thread. Great writeup!

I'm using an older, self assembled version of Megajolt to run the EDIS4 on my son's Zetec powered MGB. It works great; better than any distributor system we have used.

It's hard to see in this photo, but we took the same approach to the trigger wheel location. I used a flat bar bolted to the block to hold the sensor. In our ignition map we also put a reverse rise on the lowest bin to help stabilize the idle. Our idle is set at 950 and you can see it vary no more than 30-40 rpm on the tuning screen.

He took it on an extended trip this weekend and it knocked down nearly 30 mpg (in spite of all the horsing around) and ran flawlessly. I'm really liking the bike carbs, too. Very smooth, no stumbles, great mileage, and great idle.

Great job! Looking forward to seeing more!
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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #45 by falcon fanatic » Tue May 26, 2015 12:52 am

Hi, anybody know if this will work to ditch my distributor. Modifications required, I know...

http://www.stockwiseauto.com/product_in ... /Model/all
'63 Futura Convertible. Disc/drum, Bilsteins, beefy swaybars, #480 springs, roller or spherical everything up front, HD shackles on stock springs out back. Megasquirt FI on ported, big valve aussie head w/ roller rockers; 10:1 6000rpm engine; 264/274-12*; C-4, Maverick 8" 3.25 W/trac-lok and perimeter frame inside the unibody. More to come...
http://falconfanatic.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #46 by clintonvillian » Tue May 26, 2015 8:28 am

That is REALLY interesting. For 35 bucks it is worth a shot.

I know that the '96 model 4.9L had the Cam Sync built into them as well, thats another route.....

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #47 by falcon fanatic » Tue May 26, 2015 10:25 am

Well that's true, considering how much money this little bird has eaten $35 is nothing!
'63 Futura Convertible. Disc/drum, Bilsteins, beefy swaybars, #480 springs, roller or spherical everything up front, HD shackles on stock springs out back. Megasquirt FI on ported, big valve aussie head w/ roller rockers; 10:1 6000rpm engine; 264/274-12*; C-4, Maverick 8" 3.25 W/trac-lok and perimeter frame inside the unibody. More to come...
http://falconfanatic.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #48 by thesameguy » Thu May 28, 2015 1:45 am

What do you mean by "ditch your distributor?" You mean like "fill the hole" or perform some sort of function? If the former, why not just go to a junkyard and get the "plug" from a 2.3l Mustang as I did? The bottom part of the plug and the synchronizer are the same. If the latter, well, I'm not sure where you're going with that. :)

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #49 by falcon fanatic » Thu May 28, 2015 9:18 am

I don't need a distributor with my new setup, but I can't just plug the hole because the distributor shaft also drives the oil pump. So, I need a low-profile oil pump drive that will clear up some space in my engine bay.
'63 Futura Convertible. Disc/drum, Bilsteins, beefy swaybars, #480 springs, roller or spherical everything up front, HD shackles on stock springs out back. Megasquirt FI on ported, big valve aussie head w/ roller rockers; 10:1 6000rpm engine; 264/274-12*; C-4, Maverick 8" 3.25 W/trac-lok and perimeter frame inside the unibody. More to come...
http://falconfanatic.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ford EDIS

Post #50 by thesameguy » Thu May 28, 2015 4:17 pm

Just use the plug from a 2.3l Mustang with DIS - the posts about the mods that need to be done to it are about 2/3rds of the way down this page.

Image

Works great!

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