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T5 Clutch options for 1965 Falcon w/ 170

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dr_meat201
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T5 Clutch options for 1965 Falcon w/ 170

Post #1 by dr_meat201 » Mon May 13, 2019 6:02 pm

Hey y'all,

For now, I'm keeping the little 170 I've got in my 65 Falcon and tossing a T5 behind it. I've got a forward shift housing and speedometer cable, adapter plate (successfully bolted in place) and a crossmember all ready to go. T5 is out of a 4 cylinder (87 Mustang), and when I went to bolt it up, I had a moment where I realized that it wasn't going in. As I've since found out, it's because the pilot bushing and clutch disk are too small (previously had a 3 speed in it). What are my clutch options here? Anything I need to look out for when I'm hunting this down? I've got a lead on the pilot bushing, so I'm all set there.

I know I need an 8.5" setup, that it needs to be 10 spline, and that it's gotta have an input diameter of 1-1/16". Beyond that, I don't know if there's anything else to worry about.

As an aside, I tried to get the bellhousing off, but it won't budge. I've got an old Ford service manual, and tried my best to follow the directions (I even pulled the starter) but that bellhousing is definitely stuck on good. I'm pretty sure I got all the bolts, but it still feels like there's a few attached somewhere. Anyone got any advice there? Once I get some time, I can start taking some pics to give y'all a better idea of where I'm at.

Your advice is greatly appreciated! I'm brand shiny new to this whole thing, and while I'm learning a lot, I'm also finding that there's a lot to learn. One of these days, I'll have a mean little Falcon of my own. Till then, I just want to be able to climb hills and hit the highway. :beer:

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lavron
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Re: T5 Clutch options for 1965 Falcon w/ 170

Post #2 by lavron » Tue May 14, 2019 12:53 am

Did you check a 4cyl clutch disk? I have one and can measure it if that will help you, I don't know what size it is off the top of my head. Seems like when I was comparing them they were the same size.

There are four bolts holding the bell on, you can see in this picture of a dual pattern 200 where they are, the locating pins are in the proper location in this picture for your 170. Ignore the 3 holes along the top of the engine in this picture (they are at the bottom but it is the the top) your 1670 won't have those.

Image

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

dr_meat201
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Re: T5 Clutch options for 1965 Falcon w/ 170

Post #3 by dr_meat201 » Tue May 14, 2019 9:49 am

lavron, I went ahead and got a clutch kit from an 87 Mustang 4 banger. Looks like it's the same diameter (8.5"), the correct spline count, and the correct input shaft size. Best case, I can use the new pressure plate, worst case, I can just keep it around or get rid of it.

I'm wondering if those guide pins are what's holding it on, and if they're kinda rusted together. Will I seriously damage stuff if I spray a bunch of PB blaster around inside the bell to try to get them loose?

Thanks!

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lavron
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Re: T5 Clutch options for 1965 Falcon w/ 170

Post #4 by lavron » Tue May 14, 2019 11:35 am

If your bell is aluminum it should not rust to the block. I am assuming the motor is still in the car.

You might try using a pry bar between the bell and the block but I have never seen one stuck but I haven't done a ton of them.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

dr_meat201
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Re: T5 Clutch options for 1965 Falcon w/ 170

Post #5 by dr_meat201 » Tue May 14, 2019 3:26 pm

Yep, motor is still in the car. I don't want to muck up the block plate too much, so it's slim pickings as far as wedge points go. I think I'll try running a screwdriver around it as gently as I can to see if I can get it to unseal a little bit.

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Re: T5 Clutch options for 1965 Falcon w/ 170

Post #6 by dr_meat201 » Sat May 18, 2019 12:31 am

Alright, I'm almost there but hit a snag. I need a new release bearing and collar. Do y'all have a part number or even a diameter that I can search up on RockAuto or something? Not sure if it makes a difference (I know there's some differences between the 4 cyl and other T5's) but this one is out of a 4cyl and it's a WC (just to package as much info up into this as I can).

I'm suuuuuper close on this and the itch to get it on the road is killing me :D

And thanks again, Iavron, I was actually able to get my bell off thanks to your pic (I figured out where to put the screwdriver so I could do a little gentle prying action)

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lavron
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Re: T5 Clutch options for 1965 Falcon w/ 170

Post #7 by lavron » Sat May 18, 2019 9:38 am

I am going to guess the 4cyl throwout will work but I didn't get one with the setup I have out in the shed. I am not sure all the T5 TOB are not the same.

If you have your current one measure the diameter and thickness of it and I can tell you if it is the same as my current T5 bearing.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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Re: T5 Clutch options for 1965 Falcon w/ 170

Post #8 by dr_meat201 » Sat May 18, 2019 4:59 pm

lavron - I tried mounting the trans, but the problem is my current bearing is too small, so it won't fit on the bearing retainer. Is there a standard size for them in 4 cylinder T5's or is it one of those things that changed over time so I've gotta measure to see what fits?

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lavron
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Re: T5 Clutch options for 1965 Falcon w/ 170

Post #9 by lavron » Sat May 18, 2019 6:52 pm

dr_meat201 wrote:Not sure if it makes a difference (I know there's some differences between the 4 cyl and other T5's) but this one is out of a 4cyl and it's a WC (just to package as much info up into this as I can).


All the T5 transmissions look the same on the outside basically the only main difference is the length of the input shaft, I think the 4cyl looks like a V8 in length, as far as I know all of them have the same diameter bearing retainer, I have a V6 T5 I am putting in my car and it came with a 4 cylinder T5 (or vice-versa) I also installed the V8 input shaft in my V6 (and then switched it back) but all of them look the same 4-6-8 as far as the diameter of the bearing retainer.

My 170 still has the 3 speed attached to it or I would check for you and see what the differences are. But from what I have seen the T5 bearing is the correct one, will it not fit into your clutch fork?

If you are just needing to get the TOB look for one from a mid 90's Mustang, If you still need me to confirm the diameter of that I can just let me know.

See Ya,
Mike
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Re: T5 Clutch options for 1965 Falcon w/ 170

Post #10 by dr_meat201 » Sat May 18, 2019 9:19 pm

lavron wrote:My 170 still has the 3 speed attached to it or I would check for you and see what the differences are. But from what I have seen the T5 bearing is the correct one, will it not fit into your clutch fork?


Not as far as I've been able to ascertain. I even pulled it off the clutch fork and tried pushing it on the trans but it's not going on. I definitely need a new bearing though, it shouldn't sound like there's sand in mine when I spin it. Can I pull the bearing itself apart and separate it from the part that fits on the clutch fork (the bit with the metal tabs) or is that integrated into the bearing?

Even if I could, I think I need a new one of those too, mine is loose on the clutch fork (looser than I'd expect, I know it needs to move some) and very rusty. I found another post from a different user that suggests a very particular part from Napa (N1439) seems to work for him and is everything I'd like to replace, it's just a little more than I was hoping to spend on a single bearing.

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lavron
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Re: T5 Clutch options for 1965 Falcon w/ 170

Post #11 by lavron » Sat May 18, 2019 11:08 pm

I did a little checking that bearing (NAPA N1439) fits a '77 Maverick with a 200 (3.3L) RockAuto has them for around $25.

According to the National bearing, comparing the '77 Maverick to the '96 T5 Mustang it may fit;

'77 Maverick - NATIONAL 614038 Bearing Assembly - Sealed Self-Aligning; Bore=1.4375", Outer Diameter=2.9", Width=1.439"

'96 Mustang - NATIONAL 614014 Bearing Assembly - Sealed Self-Aligning; Bore=1.438", Outer Diameter=2.76", Width=1.36"

The '96 Mustang bore hole is .0005" larger

Hope that helps.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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lavron
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Re: T5 Clutch options for 1965 Falcon w/ 170

Post #12 by lavron » Sat May 18, 2019 11:12 pm

I just looked at the '77 Maverick with the 250, they list this National bearing that is spot on;

NATIONAL 614014 Bearing Assembly - Sealed Self-Aligning; Bore=1.438", Outer Diameter=2.76", Width=1.36"

Only thing the picture shows it lacks the clips.

Or this Timken;

TIMKEN 614034 1.439 Bore.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

dr_meat201
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Re: T5 Clutch options for 1965 Falcon w/ 170

Post #13 by dr_meat201 » Sun May 19, 2019 4:59 pm

Mike,

Thanks for the info! I’ll dig into this a little further now that I’ve got some numbers to work from. That’s gonna make life a lot easier, thanks a ton!

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Re: T5 Clutch options for 1965 Falcon w/ 170

Post #14 by rickwrench » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:24 pm

viewforum.php?f=94
More specifically:
viewtopic.php?f=96&t=42556

Several years ago, all the tech stickies were stripped out of each sub-category, consolidated, and moved to their own category. That category isn't linked to the "tech" section in the nav bar in any way, so you have to hunt for it down in the forum index.

Since then, new "tech" stickies seem to have returned to the top of each category, further confusing the issue.

Good luck. There is still a huge wealth of knowledge here, if you manage to find it.

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