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More clutch problems

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rommaster2
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More clutch problems

Post #1 by rommaster2 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:09 pm

Ok so I fixed my problem with my clutch not activating at all but now I appear to run into the same problem ASA was having except i'm running a 3 finger still not the new one.

Basically everything worked fine prior to the swap, now though when i start the car none of the gears will go into gear, reverse grinds none of the others even let me in.

If i leave the car off and push it into gear (almost forcing it) i can bump it with the starter so the transmission does not appear to be the issue.

Even more interesting is i can feel the end of freeplay in the clutch pedal (where you feel the engine rotating) it just does not disengage the clutch. I checked my clutch fork and it appears to be the rivited kind and it is securely attached. Like i said everything worked fine before.

Also the clutch is not in backwards, trust me i tried for an hour to put it in backwards before realizing it was backwards and that it wasn't gonna fit that way.

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Post #2 by The Plankster Prankster » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:27 am

as i've mentioned elsewhere, i've had similar problems in 80s trucks. and from that i will speak in a way that can be applied to (whatever car i can't remember)
is there any way you could custom-fab the pedal-end of your linkage in such a way as to cause your linkage (hydro, cable, mechanical) to recieve a longer stroke from teh same pedal stroke. in my case this was done by moving the MC down and extending teh drop-down arm coming from the pedal's pivot shaft. i would expect you could do the equivelent to your car, but of course i can't give much more detail for having not worked on something similar enough :)
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rommaster2
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Post #3 by rommaster2 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:37 am

See I don't know if its that, the reason I'm not sure is because when i adjust it the farther down i go on the adjustment rod it eventually gets to where there is no free movement its all just resistance. Its not extreme resistance but for some reason the clutch jsut doesn't work *shrug*.

I believe I could get a different clutch rod which would add more adjustment but i wouldn't think i'd need more since all i changed was the clutch plate itself and the throwout bearing.

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Frankenstang
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Post #4 by Frankenstang » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:11 am

rommaster2 wrote:I checked my clutch fork and it appears to be the rivited kind and it is securely attached.

I'm guessing you mean the clip style where the clip is riveted to the fork...it just sounded like the fork was loose from the pivot (ie wire or clip not attached to pivot). Thing is the fork is wide enough on either side of the pivot groove that it can look and act like it's pivoting, but it's really traveling east and west also, just enough to prevent proper leverage, and the fork really ends up pivoting on the edge of the housing not locked in the groove pivoting against the fulcrum mounted to the bell
Image
....but sounds like you ruled that out :? :hmmm: .

Is it possible that 2.3l disc is just bit too big?...enough so that the edges are hanging on the pp frame and not letting it come off the flywheel?
-Robert
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66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time

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CobraSix
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Post #5 by CobraSix » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:58 am

Just out of curiosity.

Are you sure you put the disc in the right way?

I only ask because I had the same problems and it turned out I had installed the disc the wrong way and it was hanging up on the pressure plate.

edit: I reread your last sentence and see that you are sure. however it is possible to make it fit backwards...trust me...

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Engine: 200 CI, Oz 250 modified for 4V Holley 390CFM, DS II Ignition, 40kV Flamethrower, MSD Digital 6+
Drivetrain: Cable Clutch, V-8 T5, 8" 5 Lug Rear End, 5-Lug SSBC Front Brakes, 3.40:1 Posi

rommaster2
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Post #6 by rommaster2 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:27 pm

I'm basically just gonna check and see if the pedal is even applying the force properly to the fork. If it is not then I am going to have to pull the tranny out and check the pressure plate and clutch though those should be fine.

On the off chance it is the pressure plate and it needs to be replaced are there any diaphram ones that will work without modification to the flywheel?

I'm using a 2.77 bellhousing and flywheel.

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Post #7 by james singleton » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:39 pm

Rommaster, How old is your 3-finger pressure plate? I had a similar problem after installing a new engine, and after adjusting the clutch play from A to Z, I had problems getting the trans in gear (especially reverse). I also had clutch "chatter", where it was tough letting out the clutch in first gear (very sensitive). It turned out that my 3-finger pressure plate (which was very old) was the problem. James

rommaster2
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Post #8 by rommaster2 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:12 pm

It is a rebuilt one (well all of em are these days) that is about three or four years old. It has probably about 20 to 30 thousand miles on it.

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Post #9 by Frankenstang » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:28 pm

rommaster2 wrote:I'm using a 2.77 bellhousing and flywheel.


Okay, I'm confused or I'm mixing people up....I thought you had a '67 bell, so you're using the small bell (2.77) 60-65?
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and the stepped flywheel?
Image
with a 67 TO?...the one in the middle
Image

I'm about out of ideas, but maybe this info will help someone help you. When you said '67 TO, I guess I assumed '67 bell...will that '67 TO work with the smaller flywheel, asking if anyone knows?
There are 2.3l discs out there in 8.5", 9.0625" or 9-1/16", and 9.25" the last one is the one I thought you might have had by mistake, since it's a good 3/16" almost a quarter wider. I'm guessing you already checked the '215mm clutch disc' sticky in this section to make sure that the 2.3l disc you have would work...there is good info there for the 8.5" setup.
scratchin my head again....
-Robert
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66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time

rommaster2
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Post #10 by rommaster2 » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:38 am

The reason for the later throwout bearing is thats what big als website said to use *shrug* i don't see why it wouldnt work but hopefully if there is a reason you guys can inform me.

I just hope i can fix it tommorrow cause its supposed to rain this weekend and then i won't have time to fix her up.

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Post #11 by CobraSix » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:03 am

This is one of the times Al's knowledge is missed around here. Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to get his research files before we had a falling out.

IIRC, the 67 TO bearing is the right one. Unfortunately it is the only thing I didn't list on my website when I did my conversion.
Slade

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Engine: 200 CI, Oz 250 modified for 4V Holley 390CFM, DS II Ignition, 40kV Flamethrower, MSD Digital 6+

Drivetrain: Cable Clutch, V-8 T5, 8" 5 Lug Rear End, 5-Lug SSBC Front Brakes, 3.40:1 Posi

rommaster2
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Post #12 by rommaster2 » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:36 pm

Ok update, I have looked underneath the car and can see the throwout bearing going inside the pressure plate so that makes things even wierder cause if its going in it should be pushing the arms correct? maybe I don't have enough adjustment to push?

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Post #13 by CobraSix » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:36 am

I had assumed you had maxed out your adjustment.

Try going to the extreme and see if that helps.
Slade

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Engine: 200 CI, Oz 250 modified for 4V Holley 390CFM, DS II Ignition, 40kV Flamethrower, MSD Digital 6+

Drivetrain: Cable Clutch, V-8 T5, 8" 5 Lug Rear End, 5-Lug SSBC Front Brakes, 3.40:1 Posi

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Re: More clutch problems

Post #14 by FALCONAROUND » Sat May 16, 2009 1:32 pm

What about that disc being TOO THICK theory you had?

Did that work out getting a thinner one? That might have been something...

rommaster2
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Re: More clutch problems

Post #15 by rommaster2 » Mon May 18, 2009 6:41 am

I don't think thats the problem anymore but we will see. My friend brought up a good test that I didn't think of for some reason. Basically tomorrow I am gonna pull out the tranny and mount up the bellhousing without the tranny so that I can work the clutch and use the clutch alignment tool to see if i can spin the disc or not.

That way at least I can rule out the tranny for sure :) before i go spending money on machining the flywheel.

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Re: More clutch problems

Post #16 by FALCONAROUND » Mon May 18, 2009 3:27 pm

Most EXCELLENT Idea!

Do tell how you fare! Both here and at FM.


FE

rommaster2
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Re: More clutch problems

Post #17 by rommaster2 » Sun May 31, 2009 2:42 am

FINALLY WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So today i got to drive my car on its own power for the first time in like five months :D.

Sure the brakes need to be rebled and checked for leaks as only the rears are working right now and the tranny mount needs to be tightened (i got so excited i forgot to tighten it) but it works.


Basically what was wrong was that the 87-93 4cyl T5 8 1\2" clutch requires the stepped flywheel to be chamfered in the center to allow for more clearence, wish i had taken pics but i literally put the tranny back in by cell phone light by myself so didn't have much patience to take pictures.

I definetly must thank my wonderful lady friend who finally motivated me enough to finish it on days i work by agreeing to attend the drive in with me :twisted:

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Re: More clutch problems

Post #18 by Frankenstang » Sun May 31, 2009 11:32 am

Sweeet!!! :banana: :party: :banana:

Congrats, I think I've read of only one other member who mentioned having to have a little extra machining relief in the center area of the flywheel to accomodate the sping plate from the clutch disc...man that's a red herring, glad you finally got it whooped!

rommaster2 wrote:I definetly must thank my wonderful lady friend who finally motivated me enough to finish it on days i work by agreeing to attend the drive in with me


Of course proper motivation never hurts :wink:
-Robert
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66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time

rommaster2
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Re: More clutch problems

Post #19 by rommaster2 » Sun May 31, 2009 12:30 pm

Frankenstang wrote:
Of course proper motivation never hurts :wink:


ha yes but it hurts the day after, i'm sore now from wrestling with that damn thing under the car :P

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