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What are you doing for rear ends?

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TheDude
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What are you doing for rear ends?

Post #1 by TheDude » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:17 pm

I've been thinking about what I need to do for a rear end. I have a '68 200ci and I'm pretty sure I plan to keep it when I redo my '65 Mustang. However, I would like to upgrade the suspension to a 5 lug setup with disk brakes. I do not think I am going to do anything wild with the engine. Right now I have a header, 2bbl carb and Petronix. I might upgrade the camshaft and rocker assembly. At what point do you upgrade your rear end to a 8" or 9" unit? Is 9" overkill? What gears would you use with a T5? I would like a streetable car with a good amount of power (enough to have fun :mrgreen: )
1965 Ford Mustang.
'68 200ci engine.
2bbl 5200 carb
Pertronix Electronic Ignition
Dual out header. Dual exhaust
Borla mufflers.


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bubba22349
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Re: What are you doing for rear ends?

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:58 pm

You could try to adapt the five lug brakes to your orig. rear (axles would be toughest part probably would need to be custom made) but by time you get done it may be cheaper and as fast to bolt in the 8 inch and is more than enough strength for a mild 200 six. The 9 inch is over kill cost would be much more too, as most would need to be narrowed.
Last edited by bubba22349 on Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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FalconSedanDelivery
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Re: What are you doing for rear ends?

Post #3 by FalconSedanDelivery » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:57 pm

Ok first this is my opinion ( I have 3 old classic year cars and all have 4 wheel Drum ) rear Disc brakes are a complete waste of time and money on a older car , ( Front Disc are a good Idea ) the front of a car does 75% or more of the brake work , I do not put money where its not needed , The Five lug upgrade will give you all the braking power in the rear you need , if the car was going to be and only be ROAD RACED , I could see an upgrade to rear Disc, find a good 8 or 9 inch ( the 8's are getting harder to find and if you have to go New go 9 is cheaper and DOES NOT SLOW THE CAR DOWN with the so called extra drag ) in the end its your money , Time and Preference , just sharing 35 + years of doing this
Falcon 6's, FE's I Like them both , Sold all My 6 cyl stuff ( for now at least ) glad to pass along some tips though

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stevexysupersix
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Re: What are you doing for rear ends?

Post #4 by stevexysupersix » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:16 pm

FalconSedanDelivery wrote:Ok first this is my opinion ( I have 3 old classic year cars and all have 4 wheel Drum ) rear Disc brakes are a complete waste of time and money on a older car , ( Front Disc are a good Idea ) the front of a car does 75% or more of the brake work , I do not put money where its not needed , The Five lug upgrade will give you all the braking power in the rear you need , if the car was going to be and only be ROAD RACED , I could see an upgrade to rear Disc, find a good 8 or 9 inch ( the 8's are getting harder to find and if you have to go New go 9 is cheaper and DOES NOT SLOW THE CAR DOWN with the so called extra drag ) in the end its your money , Time and Preference , just sharing 35 + years of doing this

BTD, If you ever have the chance to jack up the 2 side by side and spin a wheel by hand on each, the extra effort will be blatently obvious. I did it yesterday. Wait a minute, could there be something wrong with my 9? Are DL's harder to turn? Has anyone ever tried this comparison before? I can't be the only one & FSD isn't the 1st person I've come across with a similar opinion.
A quick call to my bro-inlaw made it 'nothing to worry bout', still, it's got me wondering........
Cheers, Steve
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FalconSedanDelivery
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Re: What are you doing for rear ends?

Post #5 by FalconSedanDelivery » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:37 pm

Yep def harder to turn by the wheel BUT !!! Power goes in by the pinion , NOT the Wheel , try it that way and see if you notice , Ive installed 9 inches in lots of Drag cars ( my brothers when we kept breaking the 8 ) and the car DID NOT SLOW EVEN by .001 ) I hear that comparison all the time , NOT relevant , its almost an Urban myth !!
Falcon 6's, FE's I Like them both , Sold all My 6 cyl stuff ( for now at least ) glad to pass along some tips though

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stevexysupersix
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Re: What are you doing for rear ends?

Post #6 by stevexysupersix » Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:49 pm

FalconSedanDelivery wrote:Yep def harder to turn by the wheel BUT !!! Power goes in by the pinion , NOT the Wheel , try it that way and see if you notice , Ive installed 9 inches in lots of Drag cars ( my brothers when we kept breaking the 8 ) and the car DID NOT SLOW EVEN by .001 ) I hear that comparison all the time , NOT relevant , its almost an Urban myth !!

Thanks FSD, will give that a go, though it sounds like the myth is "busted" anyway. You cant argue with the figures! (doesn't mean I understand it :wink: )
Cheers, Steve
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FalconSedanDelivery
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Re: What are you doing for rear ends?

Post #7 by FalconSedanDelivery » Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:31 am

It has to do with the Hypoid angle ( gear contact ) its also what makes a 9 inch stronger ( along with the inner pinion support ) and like I said it needs to be checked in the direction of power
Falcon 6's, FE's I Like them both , Sold all My 6 cyl stuff ( for now at least ) glad to pass along some tips though

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Re: What are you doing for rear ends?

Post #8 by early ford fan » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:19 am

FalconSedanDelivery wrote:It has to do with the Hypoid angle ( gear contact ) its also what makes a 9 inch stronger ( along with the inner pinion support ) and like I said it needs to be checked in the direction of power

ive read this in one of the major hot rod magazines.

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Re: What are you doing for rear ends?

Post #9 by CobraSix » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:10 am

the issue with the 9" isn't the effort to turn it. It is a minimal change. but a 9" is significantly heavier than an 8" rear, and even more once you fill it with fluid. Behind an inline 6, it's overkill. I doubt you can kill an 8" with a 200. Sure, in a drag car making 500BHP, the extra 50 lbs is barely noticable. But on a 200 it will make a difference. Maybe not much. Just 9" isn't really needed behind a 200. Why add the extra weight and fit up problems that accompany it?

I upgraded my 7.5 to an 8" after about 6 months of running the oz250 set up I have now. that set up chewed up the rear end pretty quick.

I'm running 3.40:1 with a V-8 T5. While the 3.40 was nice with the 4 cylinder T5, it's not short enough for the V-8 T5. My only complaint about the 3.40 rear end is overdrive. I can't even think about putting it into 5th until I've hit at least 50-55 MPH. Anything less and it'll lose speed up even small inclines. Granted, it runs really nice in 4th gear at 45-50 so its a trade off. I would say a 3.40 is the tallest gear you'd want. 3.55 would be better IMO.

Don't waste the money on rear disc brakes. With front disc brakes and v-8 rear drums (which are HUGE compared to the I6 version) will stop the 65 in a blink. I did some road tests. My 65 with front disc and rear drum, will stop in about the same distance as my 98 volvo does with 4 wheel ABS disc brakes, around 165 feet 60-0. rear disc brakes are needed on a car as light as the 65 mustang. Front disc are nice though.
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Engine: 200 CI, Oz 250 modified for 4V Holley 390CFM, DS II Ignition, 40kV Flamethrower, MSD Digital 6+
Drivetrain: Cable Clutch, V-8 T5, 8" 5 Lug Rear End, 5-Lug SSBC Front Brakes, 3.40:1 Posi

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Re: What are you doing for rear ends?

Post #10 by PhantomAce » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:05 am

I put an 8" out of a '63 Sprint V8 in my 61 Ranchero (narrowest 8" Ford made).
Stayed with rear drums, just had everything rebuilt 100% by local diff shop.
Went 3.0:1 Posi, so my only fear is that I have it geared too "tall", but I won't be able to find out until we actually finish the car and get it on the road. Current plan is to run the SROD I have with 15" rims, so it's probably going to be a bit late going into OD (fourth gear).
But, I seriously doubt that my warmed over 200 is going to be able to damage it.
I would guess you would have to have nitrous and/or a turbo on one of these engines to produce enough real power to destroy an 8" in proper working order.
Ford put them behind many V8's for years after all...

Just my 2-c worth, YMMV though...
Mine: '61 chero, Clifford 200, E0 head (1.75/1.50, 1.6 rocker), 276 Cam, H-W 38/38, CI 6-to-2 header, T5, front disc, Shelby drop, 8" 3.0-posi, buckets/console, 15" TorqThrust's. Still building...
Son's "Parts Car": '61 chero, local built 200, C9 head (1.75/1.50, 1.5 rocker), 274 cam, 2V direct, Clifford 6-to-2 header, C4, B&M QuickSilver, stock rear and susp (for now).

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Re: What are you doing for rear ends?

Post #11 by TheDude » Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:54 pm

While visiting a friend who is building a 'glass t-bucket I told him about my plans for the car, which included upgrading the rear to an 8 inch. After a while he remembered that he had a set of 5 lug Ford axles he bought a while ago. They are the correct length for my rear end. He just gave them to me. What a great guy. :beer: I know I will need new rotors since I need the 5 lug pattern. I just rebuilt the drum brakes all around. For the rear, do I need to buy a new V8 drum brake setup? What hardware can I use from the six cylinder setup? Do I need V8 wheel cylinders?

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Re: What are you doing for rear ends?

Post #12 by rocklord » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:38 am

TheDude wrote:While visiting a friend who is building a 'glass t-bucket I told him about my plans for the car, which included upgrading the rear to an 8 inch. After a while he remembered that he had a set of 5 lug Ford axles he bought a while ago. They are the correct length for my rear end. He just gave them to me. What a great guy. :beer: I know I will need new rotors since I need the 5 lug pattern. I just rebuilt the drum brakes all around. For the rear, do I need to buy a new V8 drum brake setup? What hardware can I use from the six cylinder setup? Do I need V8 wheel cylinders?


Before buying any parts for your 5 lug you better do some measuring. I went through the 5 lug switch and had an interesting experience.

I purchased a 4 lug 8 inch Maverick rear end that I was planning on installing in my 65 Mustang, wanting to stay with a 4 lug setup. I also had a rear disc setup from a 91 Crown Vic that I wanted to install. The Crown Vic rear disc conversion is a fairly straight bolt in for a 5 lug 8 inch rear end. I figured on redrilling the rear discs for 4 lug.

When I disassembled the Maverick rear end, I took the backing plate for the Crown Vic rear discs to see if they lined up. THEY DIDN'T! The flange on the Maverick rear end where the axle bolts on had a smaller bolt pattern than the backing plate. The opening in the Crown Vic backing plate where the bearing goes through is also larger. I later found out that the 4 lug Maverick rear end has the same flange size, and uses the same size bearing as the 4 lug 7.25 inch rear end found in our six cylinder vehicles. This is great if you want to install a Maverick 8 inch in place of a 7.25, the brake backing plates and brakes bolt right on. But the brakes for an 5 lug 8 inch will not bolt onto a Maverick 4 lug 8 inch, or 4 lug 7.25 inch.

I thought about adapting the flanges on the Maverick 8 inch to accept the Crown Vic brakes, but I was concerned for safety (flange breaking and axles coming out while driving) and decided to find a 5 lug 8 inch. I finally found a 5 lug 8 inch (out of a Maverick of all things) and proceeded to disassemble it for cleaning and test fitting. Come to find out that the Crown Vic backing plate bolts right onto the flange of the 5 lug Maverick 8 inch. The Maverick 8 inch also uses an axle bearing the same size as the Crown Vic, but larger than the one used in the 4 lug Maverick 8 inch or the 4 lug Mustang 7.25 inch. The 5 lug 8 inch uses a larger diameter axle than the 4 lug Maverick 8 inch, or 4 lug Mustang 7.25 inch, so the bearings from one axle will not fit on the other.

My point after all of this is that the axles that you got will not fit into your 7.25 inch rear end, or even into a 4 lug Maverick 8 inch ( I wish it did, I have one I need to get rid of) because they take bearings that are larger than the ones in your vehicle now. Also the bearings for a 7.25 inch rear end will not fit onto a 5 lug 8 inch axle because the inside diameter of the bearing is smaller. Disc brake kits designed for 5 lug 8 inch rear ends will not directly fit onto the 4 lug 7.25 inch Mustang rear end because the rear end flanges are different.

Your best bet is to find a 5 lug 8 inch rear end that will work with your Mustang and go with 5 lug all around with the option of four wheel discs, or go with a 4 lug 8 inch Maverick rear end with drums on the back and discs on the front.

Hope this helps and isn't to confusing.
Dan

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