Click Here -> Please Consider Making a PayPal Contribution to the FordSix Forum!
2019 Contributors:
NJwpod, 1strodeo, mightynorseman, maxtrux, 6d7coupe, broncr, Phase3, 68Flareside240, bmbm40, mustang6, WorldChampGramp, justintendo, BigBlue94, ags290, motorsickle1130, Rooster, ousooner919, ethanperry, rzcrisis, DoctorC, jamyers, Motorboy, fastpat, Silverback280, chad, drag-200stang, THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER, Jimmys61falcon, rjonah, Sooshi, Robert92867, Invectivus


PLEASE TEST ON http://dev.fordsix.com

<<<***PLEASE READ*** New Site Update >>>

Alfa pressure plate update

Moderator: Mod Squad

User avatar
rickwrench
Registered User
Posts: 732
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 5:30 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Contact:

Alfa pressure plate update

Post #1 by rickwrench » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:42 am

Eight years ago, I installed the Alfa Romeo pressure plate in place of the typical crap rebuilt three finger pressure plate. Last week, after over 100,000 miles of absolutely care free use, something broke. Actually -two- things broke. First was the snap ring keeping the pinion gear on starter (I'm using a 390 gear reduction starter), the second was the spring clip on the throwout bearing.
The first could have been fixed quickly, the second meant it was time to drop the T5.

Waaaay back then, I had mild concerns using a TO bearing that was not quite a match for the Alfa PP spring finger profile, but heck, it was an experiment!

After all this time I was curious as what kind of wear would be seen. As it turned out... A LOT:

Image

Compare to a new Alfa PP:

Image

Pretty much scrap! Maybe another couple months before total failure? Still, a successful experiment, considering the number of junk rebuild three finger PPs I went through.

For the replacement, I went with a Mercedes 190 PP (far cheaper, same dimensions), which has flat fingers. I forgot to take pics, though. New clutch, pilot bushing, new TO bearing.
Another discovery was that the pilot bushing was fairly well hogged out. I had a clue on this one, as there was steadily worsening shudder during clutch engagement over the last year.
So, everything is new again. We'll see how long this PP lasts.

Rick(wrench)
'62 Falcon Wagons (x2), Kellison J5, V8 Alfa GTam, Corvair Corsa:
www.rickwrench.com

User avatar
rocklord
Registered User
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:25 pm
Location: Hurricane, WV

Re: Alfa pressure plate update

Post #2 by rocklord » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:46 am

Still Rick, for 100K miles I'd consider that a success compared to a crap rebuilt 8.5".
What was the percentage of city to highway mileage? Stop and go can put a lot of wear on a PP/TO.

Great feedback! Rick, you should add this to the sticky above.
Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
1961 Corvair Lakewood wagon, 145CID, 80HP, 2Spd Powerglide Auto.
2020 BMW X3 M, 3.0L Dual Turbo, 473HP, 8-Spd Auto. 0-60mph 4.1sec; 174mph Top Speed.

User avatar
rickwrench
Registered User
Posts: 732
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 5:30 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Contact:

Re: Alfa pressure plate update

Post #3 by rickwrench » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:14 pm

I'll call the Alfa PP a success! BTW, on pilot bushings, there seems to be a lot of crap/iron filled "bushings" out there. If it isn't bronze, it won't hold oil very well, will chew up your input shaft nose, and you are going to get the squeals sooner than later. Take a magnet to the parts store. Reject anything that sticks.

I'd call the city/highway split about 30/60 on the mileage, but probably 60/40 time-wise?
I spent a lot of time in stop and go traffic on my 50 mile commute to and through SF. Driving a clutched vehicle in SF can be... exciting. I've made "smelly clutch" a few times. Didn't see any evidence of bluing on the flywheel surface from heat though. Also at least 15,000 miles on various road trips over the years.

1. Filbert between Leavenworth and Hyde (31.5% grade)
2. 22nd Street between Church and Vicksburg (31.5% grade)
3. Jones between Union and Filbert (29% grade)
4. Duboce between Buena Vista and Alpine (27.9% grade)
5. Jones between Green and Union (26% grade)
6. Webster between Vallejo and Broadway 26% grade)
7. Duboce between Alpine and Divisadero (25% grade)
8. Jones between Pine and California (24.8 grade)
9. Fillmore between Vallejo and Broadway (24% grade)

Rick(wrench)
'62 Falcon Wagons (x2), Kellison J5, V8 Alfa GTam, Corvair Corsa:
www.rickwrench.com

thesameguy
Registered User
Posts: 687
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:34 pm

Re: Alfa pressure plate update

Post #4 by thesameguy » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:40 pm

You really can't ask for more than that, especially in the scope of driving in SF. I've known more than a few people to totally smoke newish OEM clutch components just driving for a few days in the city. Plus, 100k on Italian parts isn't bad. My 164 exploded its second pressure plate at 110k (after only 20,000 miles in my care - aka it wasn't my fault! ;) )

User avatar
Asa
Registered User
Posts: 4362
Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 2:40 pm
Location: Tampa, Tallahassee, Hangin out in some Florida woods somewhere
Contact:

Re: Alfa pressure plate update

Post #5 by Asa » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:24 pm

Awesome job Rick, could you let us know what the part numbers you used were, or what year/make/model of Alfa you used?
Right and Wrong are just words, what matters is what you do

Susie - a work in progress
Clyde - ya mule!

MPGmustang
FSP Moderator
Posts: 1610
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:23 pm
Location: Chandler AZ

Re: Alfa pressure plate update

Post #6 by MPGmustang » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:41 pm

CUTCH SHAKING, HOGGED OUT POILOT BUSHING!!!!

THESE are my worse night mares... I recently had this and my input shaft on my 4cyl t5 was crap, it cost less to get a rebuilt t5 for $600 than to rebuild the 4cyl t5 with new guts/case ... once the input shaft has play it starts killing the shaft bearing, odd gear wear, and possibly like mine, shaft bearing play's in the t-5 housing area... the shop recomened I scrap the trans...
65mustang-SOLD-200ci-t5-scarebird disks-vintage air ac-264/274 110 cam-mav 8inch 3.8 open-350cfm-CI headers
66 Bronco-SOLD-i6 170 - rust bucket never ran...
75 bronco-SOLD-v8 c4 dana 20 33's and disk brakes, locker front/rear.

User avatar
rickwrench
Registered User
Posts: 732
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 5:30 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Contact:

Re: Alfa pressure plate update

Post #7 by rickwrench » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:21 pm

Asa wrote:Awesome job Rick, could you let us know what the part numbers you used were, or what year/make/model of Alfa you used?


I used an '86 Mercedes 190E pressure plate. Pretty cheap at RockAuto as they are a closeout item (I better pick up another while I have the chance). The Alfa plate is any 215mm plate from about 1969 to 1994. However, you pay for the Alfa name. The same Sachs pressure plate, when listed for Alfa is several times more than the Mercedes.

I use a GM T5 (Chevy S10), so I needed a GM style 1"x14 spline 215mm clutch disk (87 Pontiac Sunbird), and a GM inside diameter pilot bushing. I used an 81 Jeep Wagoneer pilot bushing. It fits into the inner hole on the crankshaft end, but needs to be turned down a bit first.

MPGmustang wrote:CUTCH SHAKING, HOGGED OUT POILOT BUSHING!!!!


On NWC T5s, the only critical dimension is the shim stack between the input shaft and bearing retainer. I've built all my NWC T5's on the loose end of the shim stack spec up front to begin with. There was no damage caused by the hogged out bushing (I checked).

Rick(wrench)
'62 Falcon Wagons (x2), Kellison J5, V8 Alfa GTam, Corvair Corsa:
www.rickwrench.com

User avatar
XFlow_Fairlane
VIP Member
Posts: 2561
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 9:44 pm
Location: Dayton, TN
Contact:

Re: Alfa pressure plate update

Post #8 by XFlow_Fairlane » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:49 pm

I always wondered how that came out....
Rule: Torque = Fun , Turbo's make Torque

User avatar
kevinl1058
Registered User
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:36 pm

Re: Alfa pressure plate update

Post #9 by kevinl1058 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:38 am

I have pretty good runs with my swap so far, the one thing I need to look into is the torque hold numbers for stock pressure plate. May need to switch over to a performance pressure plate that is designed for an Alfa. I dyno'd at 147hp/185trq at the wheels so that would be 180+h.p / 220 torgue at the crank. I had a good disk built to hold but may need to either have my back up pressure plate built up to hold higher trq load. So going back if you know the stock trq. hold for the stock P.P. that would be great.
Kevin
.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests