Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

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69stang_250
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Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #1 by 69stang_250 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:55 am

Hey guys,
Ive been doing some interstate driving and I feel a vibration through my shifter at 75 mph and higher.

Here is what i have:
T5 (4cyl) I rebuilt it and all shafts passed a run out check
Shortened stock driveshaft. Balanced and new u joints
New transmission mount
New clutch kit w/throw out bearing and pilot bearing
New clutch HDWR
New shifter

What do you guys think it could be?

I have read that it could be the tires. They are a year old with 700 miles on them from new.
One thing I had to do to the t5 was cut the front bearing off of the cluster shaft.
The bearing had failed and the transmission ate it and it left some metal on the shaft that needed to be cleaned up.
But again the run out was within .003 on all shafts.

Thanks for the help guys
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.00 gears.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:26 pm

Yes By all means check the balance and trueness of all the wheel / tire combos! It's cheap and easy but is often the main cause of vibrations at higher speeds. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #3 by 69stang_250 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:40 pm

Bubba, should I feel a harsh vibration all the way to the shifter?
I am going to get them balanced and see what happens.
I am wondering if it is the drive shaft angle? I got to reading about that and i have read people have changed their driveshaft and that be the end of it.

I have no idea, but I am going to hunt it down.
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.00 gears.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #4 by bubba22349 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:29 pm

Yes for sure the wrong driveshaft angle can also cause vibrations. By having the wrong combinations of angles at the pinion and the transmission tail housing. Sometimes you can use a wedge at the rear axles spring mounts to change that angle or a shim under trans mount to change that angle. Do you have a way of measureing your angles? If not see below link. Yes the vibrations can be felt in the shifter handle, as well as the steering wheel, also even the seats, and seen in the mirrors depending on how extreme the vibration is. A good way to try and see where it's coming from is with the car up securely on jack stands (be careful and safe) or on a rack and have someone operate it in 3rd or 4th gear as you watch what is going on underneath the car from a side view. Good luck :nod: Edited

There is also a handy free download tool to check driveshaft angels with some of the smart phones.

http://www.tremec.com/menu.php?m=154
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #5 by 69stang_250 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:53 pm

Bubba you are the man! That app is awesome!

So I just downloaded the app and walked outside and took measurements 3 times with it and my angles are off according to the app. I am about to figure out what I need to do to fix that angle and get everything straight.

Thank you so much man! I will gladly dance at your wedding any time! Lol
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.00 gears.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #6 by bubba22349 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:03 pm

:beer: glad I was able to help you some. LOL :rolflmao: As far as dancing at my Wedding your a little late as it was 45 years ago but thanks anyway. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #7 by 69stang_250 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:17 am

Lol bubba, its just a figure of speech down in Louisiana. Just means I am very greatfull to you.

Ok so I need some advise on the drive line geom.

Trans is at a 2.8 downward angle and my pinion is at a 1.2 up ward angle.
With those readings and from what I have read my trans should be angled down .2 degrees more and my pinion needs to be 1.8 degrees upward to get it within range.

Here is the questions.
Who makes a good shim for the pinion angle?
If I change my driveshaft out for a new one, will that make a huge difference in the opperating angle of the drive line?
I like the ride height of my car, though it is higher than most like, and I will not be lowering it.
Thanks for the help guys.
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.00 gears.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #8 by 69stang_250 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:26 pm

Ok so I went back out and rechecked the angles 4 times at the same spots and came up with constants of:
Trans angle 3.6
DS angle 2.4
Pinion angle 0.4

So from my reading I should get some pinion shims to move this angle up. Closer to parallel with the trans angle.
My question is, would the 3 degree pinion shim be what I need?
I ask because of reading that leaf spring wrap moves the angle up roughly 2 degrees.
What is you guys opinion?
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.00 gears.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #9 by bubba22349 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:31 pm

Lol yes I though that must of had some special meaning though I haven't heard it before. Yes the 3 degree shims should be very close to right, I think Mr Gasket used to make some that I used don't know who has them nowadays but you could try a good driveshaft company like Dennie's too. As far as changing out your driveshaft that shouldn't have much of any effect if it's close to the same lenght as the one you have now. Is it set up for the correct 1 inch out of the driveshaft yoke when setting on level ground with the cars weight resting on the springs? Only a few things will change the operating angles and will have an effect on u joint speed up and slow down that causes your vibration problem i.e. These are the ride height, the rear axles pinion angle and the trans tail shaft angle. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #10 by B RON CO » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:39 pm

Hi, 4 wheel drive specialist like Wild Horses has shims, used to improve the pinion angle after a lift kit. Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #11 by rickwrench » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:54 pm

Driveline vibration will be more of a "thrumming" type of vibration.
I had driveline vibration issues initially with my T5 install in my Squire. The 1962 tunnel was just a bit too small to allow the T5 up far enough. As a result the F/R u-joint angles were off. I added wedges under the spring perch to get everything parallel again, but then the angles were steep enough to make add a tiny bit of thrum. Most of the vibration was taken care of, though. The remaining tiny bit is lost in road/wheel/wind noise. Good enough for me. The other option was dropping the motor mounts about 2", or cutting and raising the tunnel, so, nope. "Perfection is the enemy of good enough." On my car, having the rear pinion only half a degree down is -plenty- to account for wind up.

If it is a shimmy-shake (makes round ripples in your coffee cup), check wheel balance. And, if every wheel is balanced perfectly... brake drums! I chased a 70mph+ shimmy for months before finally pulling the rear drums off and checking them on my bubble balancer. Annnnd... one was out over a full ounce. On further inspection, the out of balance drum had shed a weight somewhere along the line. I tacked on a new weight (chunk of scrap) and the shimmy was gone.
Original drums are usually factory balanced, but aftermarket drums seem to be very hit and miss.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #12 by drag-200stang » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:11 pm

If you have access to a go pro it would be nice to get an idea of just how much the pinion is torquing up under load...Better parallel than past parallel under normal load.
Too tight U bolts on yoke ,can also cause vibrations.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #13 by 69stang_250 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:55 am

Ok so I watched a few videos on how to measure those angles and went and got a protractor to double check that app.
I came up with this: trans 4.3 down, drive shaft 2.1 down, and pinion 0.3 up.
I have a set of 3 degree shims coming in today to fix this angle and I will shim the trans if needed.

I put the car up on jack stands and you can see the vibrations in the driveshaft. And being that it had been balanced less than 6 months ago I don't think that is the issue. The vibration gradually gets worse as the car gains speed and it gets really bad once you hit 80 and you can feel it through the whole car.

I know I need to fix this because I noticed my output seal is leaking now. Not bad, but there is a drip.
Gonna change that out today as well.

Do you guys think leaving that 1 degree for axel wrap is a good idea?
I have new grab a track 4 1/2 leaf stock height springs on the car now.
600 miles on the entire new suspension and steering.
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.00 gears.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #14 by bubba22349 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:15 pm

69stang_250 wrote:Ok so I watched a few videos on how to measure those angles and went and got a protractor to double check that app.
I came up with this: trans 4.3 down, drive shaft 2.1 down, and pinion 0.3 up.
I have a set of 3 degree shims coming in today to fix this angle and I will shim the trans if needed.

I put the car up on jack stands and you can see the vibrations in the driveshaft. And being that it had been balanced less than 6 months ago I don't think that is the issue. The vibration gradually gets worse as the car gains speed and it gets really bad once you hit 80 and you can feel it through the whole car.

I know I need to fix this because I noticed my output seal is leaking now. Not bad, but there is a drip.
Gonna change that out today as well.

Do you guys think leaving that 1 degree for axel wrap is a good idea?
I have new grab a track 4 1/2 leaf stock height springs on the car now.
600 miles on the entire new suspension and steering.


Since you have some accurate angles to now work from, let's see if there are any other things wrong. The best u joint working angles are a 1/2 degree in opposing directions of the trans an piñon this gives the least chance of causing vibrations. I wonder if your T5 mounting is more of the cause of this then the rear axle pinion. Did you ever place a level front to rear on top of the carb's intake flange? Also is the engine trans centerline parallel to the rear axel yoke centerline, plus is the axle square in the chassis? Ie wheel base measurement is the same on both sides. One other thing to check is that the driveshaft yokes are parallel. See below video for some info on some things that happen with driveshaft angles.

Under a hard launch the axels pinion raises about 2 degrees under load. With normal street driving the piñon will raise slightly and will stay up at cruise until you let off or brake. Normally a street car piñon is setup 2 degrees down from the trans angle. Good luck :nod:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gmV4qwLfOMY
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #15 by OpelGT+3point3 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:58 pm

The transmission angle should match the carb/manifold angle. Usually 3 degrees. I always match the rear angle to the trans angle. If your driveshaft was cut, the u-joints might not be synched right. You could always jack up the wheels and try it in the driveway; even jack the pinion and see if it changes.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #16 by drag-200stang » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:27 am

On the SB-6 the carb is not parallel to the block, trans. the block,trans tilts down at the rear and the carb is level.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #17 by drag-200stang » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:15 pm

drag-200stang wrote:On the SB-6 the carb is not parallel to the block, trans. the block,trans tilts down at the rear and the carb is level.

I believe that I miss read the carb angle reference but the above is also true. :oops:
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #18 by rickwrench » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:58 pm

bubba22349 wrote:
69stang_250 wrote:Ok so I watched a few videos on how to measure those angles and went and got a protractor to double check that app.
I came up with this: trans 4.3 down, drive shaft 2.1 down, and pinion 0.3 up.
I have a set of 3 degree shims coming in today to fix this angle and I will shim the trans if needed.


The best u joint working angles are a 1/2 degree in opposing directions of the trans an piñon this gives the least chance of causing vibrations. I wonder if your T5 mounting is more of the cause of this then the rear axle pinion.

Under a hard launch the axels pinion raises about 2 degrees under load. With normal street driving the piñon will raise slightly and will stay up at cruise until you let off or brake. Normally a street car piñon is setup 2 degrees down from the trans angle.



The old standard "2 degree down" setting is more for heavy old school muscle cars that get frequently hot-rodded. During actual normal cruise in a Falcon or Mustang, the pinion rise is about 1/4 of a degree. Fully loaded, going up a hill, maybe 1/2 a degree. For a daily driver Falcon/Mustang based car @ 80-110 rwhp (typical I6 car), I wouldn't go past 1 degree down (from parallel to drive-train) as the max static setting.

Raising the transmission at the crossmember 5/8" to 3/4' is about 1 degree on an I6/T5 combo, btw. Distance from motor mount to trans mount x2, x pi, /360 = degrees per unit of measure.

Input shaft seal leaking already? Double check the the tail-shaft bushing. Worn out tail-shaft bushing could be causing vibration, too. Also, If your T5's input shaft seal is shot already from vibration, have the driveshaft u-joints examined/replaced (safety 1st). Or at the very least, check to see how "floppy" they are (safety 3rd).

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #19 by bubba22349 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:45 am

:hmmm: Have you made any progress on fixing your Mustang? :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #20 by OpelGT+3point3 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:28 pm

Is the input shaft seal leaking? I missed that if it was stated previously. But that might indicate an incorrect pilot bearing; which would cause a vibration by allowing the clutch plate to run off center. If the bell housing opening or TO bearing support is worn; that would cause the same thing.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #21 by 69stang_250 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:33 pm

Sorry i have not given an update just yet.
So I have to do some other investigating in it.
I just noticed a small line of out coming from the clutch fork boot and a drip at the bottom of the bell housing, but this is on the front of the transmission plate. I am thinking possible main cap seal, but will see.

I have not installed the shines just yet. I need to get some u bolts first. Do you guys know what size the bolt is that holds the leaf springs together? Also, do you guys know the u bolt size ( bolt width and thread size)?

Over the past 3 days I've been chasing horn issues and come to find out, the grant horn mechanism had a rough spot that wore down the yellow wire horn pin on the turn signal switch. So, I have been busy with that along with a potential move out of the country.

I will send updates as I go.
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.00 gears.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #22 by 69stang_250 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:39 pm

Also, I rebuilt the transmission myself and reaplced everything except gears, shafts, forks, and shifter rod.
It has a good used input shaft bearing retainer. No one makes new ones for the four cylinder t5s any more.
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.00 gears.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #23 by 69stang_250 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:02 am

Sorry i am just getting back to you guys.
So I took a few body panel shims and placed them between the trans and trans mount.
This lifted the trans up about half an inch and got my angle to 3.3
Now the vibration does not get bad until the car gets up to 85, but even then its no where near as bad as it was.
I just got some u bolts and plan to install the 2 degree shims today and see how much more it helps.
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.00 gears.

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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #24 by xctasy » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:05 am

69stang_250 wrote:Sorry i am just getting back to you guys.
So I took a few body panel shims and placed them between the trans and trans mount.
This lifted the trans up about half an inch and got my angle to 3.3
Now the vibration does not get bad until the car gets up to 85, but even then its no where near as bad as it was.
I just got some u bolts and plan to install the 2 degree shims today and see how much more it helps.



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Re: Vibration felt through shifter at 75 mph and higher

Post #25 by 69stang_250 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:42 pm

I have a set of those going on next!
69 mustang coupe, 250 .030 over, forged pistons, port & polished CI AL head 54cc's 10.25CR, 280/280 Clay smith cam 1 degree advanced, 1.6 adjustable rockers,
Re curved DSII, MSD AL6, CI Intake, FITech 400HP fuel injection. T5 trans, 8" rearend w/3.00 gears.

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