Clutch and stuff

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StarDiero75
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Clutch and stuff

Post #1 by StarDiero75 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:55 pm

Howdy guys

So i know i have another post about my recent clutch failure, but i just took it out today.

The input shaft wiggles like nuts, the output wiggles a little. My disk is cracked and warped and pretty smooth. The ultimate failure was the pressure plate though. One of the pins in one of the fingers popped out, it was still in there though stuck in by a spring. And i got the flywheel off too.

Now the thing im getting to is what to do now. I meaured the disk, its a 9 1/4". Im looking at upgrading to the 78 Fairmont diaphragm style, if its a 9", thats fine right? All i need is tge 65 throwout bearing with the fairmont clutch kit?

Also, how do i take out the pilot bearing? The bearing that sits at the end of the input shaft and in the crank.

Thanks guys!
Ryan
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200 and 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), weber 32/36, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

mustang6
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Re: Clutch and stuff

Post #2 by mustang6 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:05 am

In my experience the 9-1/4" clutch (Econoline/Bronco application) used the same pressure plate mounting holes in the flywheel as a 9" clutch (car application) so it will fit fine.

I know of two ways to remove the pilot bushing-

1) use a mechanical puller- either a slide type like the kind that pulls out body dents (you need a hook shaped end you can put in the center hole and hook the back edge), or a thread-in end that grabs the bushing and pushes it out by bottoming out against the back of the crankshaft, or

2) pop it out with hydraulic pressure- ideally an old input shaft, but a clutch alignment tool or perfectly sized socket with extension can be used to punch it out hydraulically. Just pack the center hole with as much thick wheel bearing grease as you can fit in there, then stick your punch item in the hole and rap on it with a small sledgehammer, the hydraulic pressure will push the bearing out a bit. You may have to pack more grease in there a couple times as the bearing moves outward, but after a few hits it will just fall out. Clean up the hole and you are ready for the new one.

If your input shaft really wiggles it probably means the needle bearings between the input shaft and mainshaft are shot and the whole thing needs a rebuild.
Scott

68 Mustang 200 ci, Aussie 250-2V head, Dual Headers, Comp Cams 252H, DSII w/MSD 6AL, T-5, V8 suspension.

65 Ranchero 200 ci, late 170 head, Autolite 1101, 3.03 3 speed, Maverick 8" 4 lug rear with 3.55 gears.

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StarDiero75
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Re: Clutch and stuff

Post #3 by StarDiero75 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:57 pm

mustang6 wrote:In my experience the 9-1/4" clutch (Econoline/Bronco application) used the same pressure plate mounting holes in the flywheel as a 9" clutch (car application) so it will fit fine.

I know of two ways to remove the pilot bushing-

1) use a mechanical puller- either a slide type like the kind that pulls out body dents (you need a hook shaped end you can put in the center hole and hook the back edge), or a thread-in end that grabs the bushing and pushes it out by bottoming out against the back of the crankshaft, or

2) pop it out with hydraulic pressure- ideally an old input shaft, but a clutch alignment tool or perfectly sized socket with extension can be used to punch it out hydraulically. Just pack the center hole with as much thick wheel bearing grease as you can fit in there, then stick your punch item in the hole and rap on it with a small sledgehammer, the hydraulic pressure will push the bearing out a bit. You may have to pack more grease in there a couple times as the bearing moves outward, but after a few hits it will just fall out. Clean up the hole and you are ready for the new one.

If your input shaft really wiggles it probably means the needle bearings between the input shaft and mainshaft are shot and the whole thing needs a rebuild.

A friend of mine just told me about the grease way, thats pretty slick.
Ok so the 9 1/4 should be just fine.

Also im looking at buying another 3 speed toploader rather rebuilding mine since its a heck of a lit cheaper. The one im looking at is from a 72 mustang, thats should be a direct swap for the one i have now right? I had a 3.03 65 toploader.
Also, im looking at doing the 78 fairmont diaphragm style clutch, would i need the throwout bearing from the 72 mustang now or still get the 65 throwout bearing?

Thanks,
Ryan
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200 and 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), weber 32/36, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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wsa111
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Re: Clutch and stuff

Post #4 by wsa111 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:59 pm

Advance Auto Parts will rent you a pilot bushing puller. The end cost is N/C. You pay for the tool & get your money back upon return.
Alltrade also sells the same tool that Advance has.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, HEI dist. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
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mustang6
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Re: Clutch and stuff

Post #5 by mustang6 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:42 am

Getting another 3.03 3 speed is a good call, around here they can be found for about $75-100 and you already know what to look for- make sure nothing external looks worn, the input shaft barely wiggles, take the lid off and look at the gears and synchros as you shift it through the gears and spin everything. To make sure it fits (if it's originally out of a Mustang it should) check overall length measurements, spline counts on both ends (big blocks were different), and shifter mounting bolts in the same place on the tailshaft housing (Mustangs bolt on in the far back position, you could swap this with yours if necessary).

As far as the throwout bearing goes, normally you go with what matches the bellhousing- but see if the one that goes with the 78 Fairmont will work with your clutch arm. IIRC that's what I did because the surface area of the diaphragm matching throwout bearing was a little wider than the 3-finger throwout bearing, and it looked less likely to slip inside the pressure plate when it was compressing the springs.
Scott

68 Mustang 200 ci, Aussie 250-2V head, Dual Headers, Comp Cams 252H, DSII w/MSD 6AL, T-5, V8 suspension.

65 Ranchero 200 ci, late 170 head, Autolite 1101, 3.03 3 speed, Maverick 8" 4 lug rear with 3.55 gears.

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StarDiero75
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Re: Clutch and stuff

Post #6 by StarDiero75 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:41 pm

wsa111 wrote:Advance Auto Parts will rent you a pilot bushing puller. The end cost is N/C. You pay for the tool & get your money back upon return.
Alltrade also sells the same tool that Advance has.

Oh good ok. Ill be doing that then. The grease sounds messy but is definitely nice to know in case i cant get a puller

Thanks WSA!
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200 and 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), weber 32/36, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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StarDiero75
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Re: Clutch and stuff

Post #7 by StarDiero75 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:44 pm

mustang6 wrote:Getting another 3.03 3 speed is a good call, around here they can be found for about $75-100 and you already know what to look for- make sure nothing external looks worn, the input shaft barely wiggles, take the lid off and look at the gears and synchros as you shift it through the gears and spin everything. To make sure it fits (if it's originally out of a Mustang it should) check overall length measurements, spline counts on both ends (big blocks were different), and shifter mounting bolts in the same place on the tailshaft housing (Mustangs bolt on in the far back position, you could swap this with yours if necessary).

As far as the throwout bearing goes, normally you go with what matches the bellhousing- but see if the one that goes with the 78 Fairmont will work with your clutch arm. IIRC that's what I did because the surface area of the diaphragm matching throwout bearing was a little wider than the 3-finger throwout bearing, and it looked less likely to slip inside the pressure plate when it was compressing the springs.

The bell is from 67 (it says C7 on the bell). I will try the fairmont throwout first, if it doesnt look like it works, then ill go with a 67 one.
Shoot i forgot to ask the guy what engine it csme out of. If its truely a ford toploader, could it still be for a big block, or is that just a small block thing?

Thanks,
Ryan
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200 and 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), weber 32/36, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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powerband
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Re: Clutch and stuff

Post #8 by powerband » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:16 am

The Fairmont uses a cable pull clutch throwout arm, your C7xx bell is push-rod actuated and needs the TO bearing to match. To get out the Pilot bushing/ bearing, a slide hammer type puller (or improvised) with a large head screw tucked behind bearing will usually pull it out fairly easily. 'Borrowing' puller from auto box-store is a good option. ( Pilots' are available as bronze bushings and/or roller bearing type with no noticeable performance difference when working properly)

https://www.summitracing.com/search/par ... =Ascending

haev fun

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StarDiero75
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Re: Clutch and stuff

Post #9 by StarDiero75 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:15 pm

powerband wrote:The Fairmont uses a cable pull clutch throwout arm, your C7xx bell is push-rod actuated and needs the TO bearing to match. To get out the Pilot bushing/ bearing, a slide hammer type puller (or improvised) with a large head screw tucked behind bearing will usually pull it out fairly easily. 'Borrowing' puller from auto box-store is a good option. ( Pilots' are available as bronze bushings and/or roller bearing type with no noticeable performance difference when working properly)

https://www.summitracing.com/search/par ... =Ascending

haev fun

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Ok sick!! Thanks a lot man!! I just wanted to make sure! I appreciate the help!

Thanks,
Ryan
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200 and 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), weber 32/36, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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