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Putting in a used Clutch

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StarDiero75
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Putting in a used Clutch

Post #1 by StarDiero75 » Fri May 31, 2019 1:11 am

Howdy guys,

So when i bought my 1966 engine, it came with a clutch and flywheel on it. I decided after my clutch issues i have nothing to lose at this point. So I went and swapped them on.

Might i say, as opposed to the last clutch, it doesnt squeak, and the pedal moves smoothly and is softer, more likw how a car should feel.

But the PP and flywheel had some surface rust on it, which is what I'm assuming is causing the shuddering into gear. The input shaft bearing, might i also add, is shot. It also only seems to grab right at the end of the pedal travel. The free travel is adjusted correctly.

My question is, will the shuddering calm down a bit and the grabbing at the end of the pedal travel stop once the surface rust is burned off?

Thanks guys,
Ryan
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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bubba22349
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Re: Putting in a used Clutch

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Fri May 31, 2019 3:37 am

StarDiero75 wrote:Howdy guys,

So when i bought my 1966 engine, it came with a clutch and flywheel on it. I decided after my clutch issues i have nothing to lose at this point. So I went and swapped them on.

Might i say, as opposed to the last clutch, it doesnt squeak, and the pedal moves smoothly and is softer, more likw how a car should feel.

But the PP and flywheel had some surface rust on it, which is what I'm assuming is causing the shuddering into gear. The input shaft bearing, might i also add, is shot. It also only seems to grab right at the end of the pedal travel. The free travel is adjusted correctly.

My question is, will the shuddering calm down a bit and the grabbing at the end of the pedal travel stop once the surface rust is burned off?



Thanks guys,
Ryan


Would be fast and easy with some 320 or 220 sand paper on a flat rubber sanding block to remove all of that surface rust. Yes the rust is the likely cause of it shuddering and grabbing, It may with quite some time wear that rust off and improve. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

drag-200stang
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Re: Putting in a used Clutch

Post #3 by drag-200stang » Fri May 31, 2019 8:11 am

I wish I could help, but at this point , I think that demons have taken possession of your bell housing.. :hmmm: ...Do you know any Priests?
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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B RON CO
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Re: Putting in a used Clutch

Post #4 by B RON CO » Fri May 31, 2019 12:25 pm

Hi, glad it's better.
The input shaft bearing is inside the tranny, right under that housing that the throw out bearing slides on.
So perhaps you are talking about the throw out bearing. Throw out bearings come thick and thin. Im never sure which is correct for which application..
As mentioned, fine Emery cloth is excellent for cleaning up machined metal parts that have surface rust or small burrs.
If the front housing on the tranny is not shiny new and smooth, the Emory cloth will polish that.
Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

1933 Ford Pickup - 59A Flathead V8
1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

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StarDiero75
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Re: Putting in a used Clutch

Post #5 by StarDiero75 » Fri May 31, 2019 12:27 pm

drag-200stang wrote:I wish I could help, but at this point , I think that demons have taken possession of your bell housing.. :hmmm: ...Do you know any Priests?

I think so too man. They just hate the Ranchero. Get this, the shop stripped out one of the holes that the transmission bolt goes through -_-. So i got 3 bolts holding this thing on now. I believe with the T5 adapter plate, i won't need the hole anyway, hopefully. Next time i touch the tranny, I'm calling the minister i know, hes the closest i got to a priest haha
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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StarDiero75
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Re: Putting in a used Clutch

Post #6 by StarDiero75 » Fri May 31, 2019 12:29 pm

B RON CO wrote:Hi, glad it's better.
The input shaft bearing is inside the tranny, right under that housing that the throw out bearing slides on.
So perhaps you are talking about the throw out bearing. Throw out bearings come thick and thin. Im never sure which is correct for which application..
As mentioned, fine Emery cloth is excellent for cleaning up machined metal parts that have surface rust or small burrs.
If the front housing on the tranny is not shiny new and smooth, the Emory cloth will polish that.
Good luck

Yes I'm talking about the input shaft bearing. The input shaft wiggles like a worm. I wish it were just the TO bearing, but that was garbage too till i put the new one in.

I'll have to look into the emory cloth. Thanks man
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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StarDiero75
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Location: Bremerton, WA

Re: Putting in a used Clutch

Post #7 by StarDiero75 » Fri May 31, 2019 12:32 pm

bubba22349 wrote:
StarDiero75 wrote:Howdy guys,

So when i bought my 1966 engine, it came with a clutch and flywheel on it. I decided after my clutch issues i have nothing to lose at this point. So I went and swapped them on.

Might i say, as opposed to the last clutch, it doesnt squeak, and the pedal moves smoothly and is softer, more likw how a car should feel.

But the PP and flywheel had some surface rust on it, which is what I'm assuming is causing the shuddering into gear. The input shaft bearing, might i also add, is shot. It also only seems to grab right at the end of the pedal travel. The free travel is adjusted correctly.

My question is, will the shuddering calm down a bit and the grabbing at the end of the pedal travel stop once the surface rust is burned off?



Thanks guys,
Ryan


Would be fast and easy with some 320 or 220 sand paper on a flat rubber sanding block to remove all of that surface rust. Yes the rust is the likely cause of it shuddering and grabbing, It may with quite some time wear that rust off and improve. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:

I wish i had had that. I thought about sand paper but i was worried that since the clutch and flywheel were already worn together that I'd mess it up by sanding it.

I'm about to do a buncb of driving here in thr next month, hopefully it burns off then, i just need this to work till i get the rest of the T5 stuff.

Thanks bubba
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

frozenrabbit
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Re: Putting in a used Clutch

Post #8 by frozenrabbit » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:56 am

Looks pretty much like a T-5 adapter uses all 4 mounting bolts

http://transmission.moderndriveline.com ... -7p138.htm

Drill and tap that hole to the next size up.
Last edited by frozenrabbit on Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

drag-200stang
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Re: Putting in a used Clutch

Post #9 by drag-200stang » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:06 am

Put a Time- Sert in it ,that would be best ..Maybe borrow the tools to do it.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

mustang6
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Re: Putting in a used Clutch

Post #10 by mustang6 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:15 am

Hi Ryan. I think you've got a few things going on-

For one thing, don't worry about the surface rust, it will be wiped off as fast as a surface rusty rotor gets cleaned by a brake pad. I think it's unlikely that has anything to do with your chatter.

You mentioned your transmission input bearing being shot, that is usually paired with (and made worse by) a couple other things- a bad pilot support bushing in the back of the crank, and bad needle bearings inside the transmission. Imagine the input shaft itself when everything is bolted together (see the graphic below)- one end supported snugly in the back of the crankshaft, the other end well supported by the input bearing- and actually more importantly the little needle bearings that ride inside the rear of the input shaft/around the front nose of the output shaft. When you wiggle the input shaft you are actually more feeling the needle bearings clearances than the input shaft bearing. Sometimes those little needle bearings get so ground down they ruin the nose of the output shaft and fall into the case, at this point the trans will clunk internally when put under/taken off load and it's pretty much not worth repairing on a 3 speed transmission. Until all of those potential issues are dealt with you won't get a smooth engaging clutch because it is sliding up and down the splines of an input shaft that is wobbling all over the place.

The good news is it probably will hold up until you can get that T5 in there.

Also, that automatic geared 2.83 rear you have is making everything harder on your clutch. I'd tell you to replace it with a 3.2 but do you know what kind of T5 you are getting? If its from a 4 cyl car it will have a lower first gear that might work pretty well with that 2.83.

Image
Scott

68 Mustang 200 ci, Aussie 250-2V head, Dual Headers, Comp Cams 252H, DSII w/MSD 6AL, T-5, V8 suspension.

65 Ranchero 200 ci, late 170 head, Autolite 1101, 3.03 3 speed, Maverick 8" 4 lug rear with 3.55 gears.

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StarDiero75
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Re: Putting in a used Clutch

Post #11 by StarDiero75 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:14 am

mustang6 wrote:Hi Ryan. I think you've got a few things going on-

For one thing, don't worry about the surface rust, it will be wiped off as fast as a surface rusty rotor gets cleaned by a brake pad. I think it's unlikely that has anything to do with your chatter.

You mentioned your transmission input bearing being shot, that is usually paired with (and made worse by) a couple other things- a bad pilot support bushing in the back of the crank, and bad needle bearings inside the transmission. Imagine the input shaft itself when everything is bolted together (see the graphic below)- one end supported snugly in the back of the crankshaft, the other end well supported by the input bearing- and actually more importantly the little needle bearings that ride inside the rear of the input shaft/around the front nose of the output shaft. When you wiggle the input shaft you are actually more feeling the needle bearings clearances than the input shaft bearing. Sometimes those little needle bearings get so ground down they ruin the nose of the output shaft and fall into the case, at this point the trans will clunk internally when put under/taken off load and it's pretty much not worth repairing on a 3 speed transmission. Until all of those potential issues are dealt with you won't get a smooth engaging clutch because it is sliding up and down the splines of an input shaft that is wobbling all over the place.

The good news is it probably will hold up until you can get that T5 in there.

Also, that automatic geared 2.83 rear you have is making everything harder on your clutch. I'd tell you to replace it with a 3.2 but do you know what kind of T5 you are getting? If its from a 4 cyl car it will have a lower first gear that might work pretty well with that 2.83.

Image

That does make sense, about the needle bearings. The pilot bearing should be fine, so that leaves the needle bearings. If what you said is true, then the rust should be gone by now, and the shuddering into gear is solely needle bearing related, which makes sense to me since it's doing similar things with both clutches.

Yes i have a 1985 L4 SVO T5. 1st is a 4.03 and 5th is .81. I do look at changing the rear gear to something more like 3.25, but we'll see. I plan on dropping the T5 in by the end of July, hopefully it all goes smoothly

Thanks man
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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StarDiero75
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Re: Putting in a used Clutch

Post #12 by StarDiero75 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:17 am

frozenrabbit wrote:Looks pretty much like a T-5 adapter uses all 4 mounting bolts

http://transmission.moderndriveline.com ... -7p138.htm

Drill and tap that hole to the next size up.

Thats for the 8.5" man, the 9" only uses 2 of the holes. I just checked my adapter install instructions. It only uses the left 2 holes, then the right 2 are center punched from the outside, drilled with a 15/32" through, then the bolt runs backwards from inside the bell to the adapter. I was curious and thought I'd dig it out. And am I glad i saw that lol
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Putting in a used Clutch

Post #13 by frozenrabbit » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:17 pm

Yea, saw I pulled up the 2.77 adapter.

Seems odd that you have to drill your 9" bell.

Is it because of the way the T-5 bolts up?

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StarDiero75
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Re: Putting in a used Clutch

Post #14 by StarDiero75 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:12 am

frozenrabbit wrote:Yea, saw I pulled up the 2.77 adapter.

Seems odd that you have to drill your 9" bell.

Is it because of the way the T-5 bolts up?

It is odd. I have yet to put the adapter on the T5 yet b/c they're at 2 different houses and I keep forgetting to bring the adapter over. I'm assuming one of the bolts through the T5 comes close to one of the original bolts. But hey, since my threads are stripped out, I'm not complaining lol. I won't have to worry about it since I have to drill the bell.

When I go to install the T5 I'll make a thread on here that's very detailed with pictures.

Ryan
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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