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What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

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Cali65
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What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #1 by Cali65 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:24 am

Hi everybody,

I'm in the process of getting parts for my T5 swap in my 65. My car has a rebuilt 200 ci motor with a 78 block. 2.77 3 speed trans and the 7 1/4 rear end with 3.20 ratio. I've been through the fun of finding out I had a automatic starter on a manual trans car by the previous owner. After it destroyed the ring gear Finding a manual trans starter for a 65 6 cyl with the longer nose cone was a PITA!

A few days ago I bought a 67 bellhousing 2 bolt starter holes, 9" flywheel, used clutch disk and pressure plate. Used release bearing and fork. The bell has the pivot and clip. The parts were from a 65 just like mine and it was being swapped to a V8. However the owner of the car used the starter for a core for a reman one.

What starter will I need for the swap? Is there a manual starter for a 67 or above 2 bolt bell with the 9 inch flywheel? Also the bell was modified to accept a V8 4 speed toploader that the previous owner had behind his 200ci with the original 7 1/4 3.20 rear, I've never seen or heard of that that combo before lol. The bell is a C7ZA-6394-A.
1965 Mustang 200 six 2.77 3 speed manual transmission. Early SSBC front disc brake conversion, Carter YFA carb with homemade throttle linkage, modified small log carb sparcer, modified 78 maverick 250 ci breather assembly. Magnaflow muffler.

Cali65
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Location: South Carolina

Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #2 by Cali65 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:50 am

The parts I have so far for the conversion is:

1967 2 bolt upper starter mount bell C7ZA-6394-A
Matching block plate from the bell.
9" flywheel and ring gear.
Used 9" clutch disk.
Used release bearing for a V8 4 speed toploader
Clutch fork.
Release bearing retainer.
Clutch pivot and spring.
Rebuilt 1989 V8 Mustang WC T5.
Pilot bearing for the V8 T5.
T5 conversion crossmember.


The parts I still need are:

The correct starter.
Adapter plate.
Modified driveshaft, this will be last.
T5 yoke.
Speedometer conversion for the t5?
Clutch linkage, I just use the mechanical if I can?
Bell housing bolts.
Starter bolts.
Trans to bell bolts.
Crossmember bolts for the trans.
Block plate to bell bolts.

If I'm missing anything let me know as I'd like to have some advice from you all.

Thanks a bunch!
1965 Mustang 200 six 2.77 3 speed manual transmission. Early SSBC front disc brake conversion, Carter YFA carb with homemade throttle linkage, modified small log carb sparcer, modified 78 maverick 250 ci breather assembly. Magnaflow muffler.

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StarDiero75
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #3 by StarDiero75 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:44 pm

Theres nothing special about the 2 bolt starter for the 67 bell. I believe its even the same as the V8 one but its indexed differently. NAPA did not have it for me so I went to Oreillys and they had it for about $45-50.

Parts you need:
Look at my PDF. That is my invoice for all the parts. Its missing the adapter plate, cross member, and clutch since i got them elsewhere. If you have a mustang, i don't think you need the front shift tail housing. If you have a Falcon/Comet/Ranchero you will need that front shift tail housing.

I had to get new speedo gears since my rear end is a 2.8 and that requires a new drive and driven gear.

Good luck man
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

chero1369
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #4 by chero1369 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:52 pm

On ford starters,I;m using a FE stater.If it has 5 ribs on the nose cone,it's a hi- torque starter.You can use a 3 hole on a 2 hole application.The difference is in the starter drive gear.And they are cheaper than a whole starter.
I'm running old mech linkage on my 62 200/WC t5.Just took a couple of passes on fork to make the Mcleod T.O. pivot right.

chero1369
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #5 by chero1369 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:56 pm

Cali,if the "release bearing is for a toploader, it won't work. ID on t5 is 1 1/16 I think.won't go with 1" toploader T.O.
course, right now,I've had a few,but check it out...

chero1369
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #6 by chero1369 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:10 am

And on the speedometer,on the drive going into the trans. is a plastic gear,comes off with a C-clip they are fairly cheap and come in different colors(whee).
and remember,the guys with the radar guns have to have a liscence for it...

chero1369
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #7 by chero1369 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:23 am

Whoops,forgot to say,you need 11 teeth on starter.different count on dish flywheel,AOD and newer stuff..

frozenrabbit
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #8 by frozenrabbit » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:43 am

Do you actually have a 2.77 attached to a 78 block? How? Pics?

Cali65
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #9 by Cali65 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:56 pm

Thanks for all the reply's So a 67 cyl Mustang starter should be ok? Are y'all using a 9" bell as well? For the FE starter what year are you using and where did you get it? So the release bearing isnt going to work where would be a good place to get the correct retainer and release bearing?
1965 Mustang 200 six 2.77 3 speed manual transmission. Early SSBC front disc brake conversion, Carter YFA carb with homemade throttle linkage, modified small log carb sparcer, modified 78 maverick 250 ci breather assembly. Magnaflow muffler.

Cali65
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Location: South Carolina

Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #10 by Cali65 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:23 pm

Yes my block is from a 78 Fairmont and the 2.77 bell fits it because it has the dual bolt pattern. I thought all of the 200 ci blocks had the dual bell patterns after 66?
1965 Mustang 200 six 2.77 3 speed manual transmission. Early SSBC front disc brake conversion, Carter YFA carb with homemade throttle linkage, modified small log carb sparcer, modified 78 maverick 250 ci breather assembly. Magnaflow muffler.

frozenrabbit
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #11 by frozenrabbit » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:27 pm

To the best of my understanding, late '66 to '68/'69 was the only dual drilled block options, during the transition from 8-1/2" clutch and 2.77 to 9" clutch and toploader.

Just for a couple of transition years moving away from the dog dish flywheel.

Your '67 bell was modified for a V8 4 speed toploader? In what way? A 9" '67 bell would take both a 3 speed or 4 speed toploader from factory, same bolt up.

There are no differences in the transmission housing or mounting holes between 6 cylinder or 8 cylinder engine applications.

Cali65
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #12 by Cali65 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:47 pm

Oh ok, then my friend and I were both mistaken. He is a local retired Mustang guru but only with V8 cars. And I didn't know that the toploader had the same bolt pattern between 6cyl and V8 trans whether it be 3 or 4 speed.
1965 Mustang 200 six 2.77 3 speed manual transmission. Early SSBC front disc brake conversion, Carter YFA carb with homemade throttle linkage, modified small log carb sparcer, modified 78 maverick 250 ci breather assembly. Magnaflow muffler.

Cali65
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #13 by Cali65 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:54 pm

The block in my car has a code D8BE 6015GR. And it's a 2.77 trans and bell. Although this bell was from another 65 that I got because the bell that came in it broke. When I took the trans out to replace the chewed up ring gear from having a automatic starter on it. Does this mean the 67 9" bell I just bought won't fit this block?
1965 Mustang 200 six 2.77 3 speed manual transmission. Early SSBC front disc brake conversion, Carter YFA carb with homemade throttle linkage, modified small log carb sparcer, modified 78 maverick 250 ci breather assembly. Magnaflow muffler.

chero1369
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #14 by chero1369 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:03 pm

When looking at the starter,if the big part beneath the gear is sticking up aprox. 1/4",,it's for an auto.If it sticks up 5/8 approx.,it's a manual starter.Not sure on teeth count on SBF,it's been 35+yrs. since I played with them.
Lots of interchagability with FE's.I always use FE lifters,they are on my shelf.Keep eyeballing those Rhodes lifters I have,then that next 200.....
I got the starter for my FE manual and FE auto from my pile of starters in the corner of the shed.mix and match till I get one I like and works.The last starter I bought from O'R. was for my FE 404(file not found) 5 yrs. back.It's a manual and I wanted a new one.Can't remember the Co. name,but it'a an american Co. that assembles them in mexico(bah).
And I hope you don't have 67 cylinders......thats a lot....
you can buy nose cones and drive gears seperatly from a whole starter.And if you get a pile knee deep,you can always make something work.
And double check the teeth count!I forgot once and I'll never take it for granted again.Blood curdling scream from flywheel.

Cali65
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #15 by Cali65 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:12 pm

I don't have any pictures yet but I can feel three holes above the 2.77 bell bolts. I assume two are for bolts and one is for a alignment dial pin?
1965 Mustang 200 six 2.77 3 speed manual transmission. Early SSBC front disc brake conversion, Carter YFA carb with homemade throttle linkage, modified small log carb sparcer, modified 78 maverick 250 ci breather assembly. Magnaflow muffler.

chero1369
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #16 by chero1369 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:15 pm

Also,Cali,if your bell is for a SBF with a low mounted starter,It's not going to fit that high mounted 200 block.I think.
But,I think for a few years before production ended,they might have made low starter 200 blocks,can't remember.
The late 60's and 70's were rough on me....

Cali65
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #17 by Cali65 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:30 pm

The 67 9" bell is a high mount starter.
1965 Mustang 200 six 2.77 3 speed manual transmission. Early SSBC front disc brake conversion, Carter YFA carb with homemade throttle linkage, modified small log carb sparcer, modified 78 maverick 250 ci breather assembly. Magnaflow muffler.

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bubba22349
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #18 by bubba22349 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:00 pm

Yes the 1967 C7ZA-6394-A bell housing (this is a 3.03 bell with the wide patern), the big bell block plate, 9 inch clutch and its matching flat 136 tooth flywheel will fit perfectly to the back of your 1978 D8 block. If you also have the matching clutch release arm for the C7ZA bell this should also work. The stock mechanical clutch linkage can work. The clutch release / throwout bearing is the same for both V8's or the Small Six. The two bolt starter is the same as a 289 / 302, 351, ect. So you can use the mini starters or stock ones plus if you can find the right nose cone you can swap it onto your current starter as was mentioned above. For the C7ZA up bell housings you have a choice of two T5 adapter plates (see below links). Good luck on your T5 Swap :thumbup: :nod: Edited

First one is clocked 5 degrees CCW, this would bring the shifter handle a little closer to you, the trans mount may also need to be shimed properly to fit the crossmember.
http://transmission.moderndriveline.com ... -7p137.htm

Second one is straight up (no rotation)
http://transmission.moderndriveline.com ... -7p537.htm

More info on Blocks, Bells, and Transmission Swaps
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=80022
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

Cali65
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #19 by Cali65 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:12 pm

So it will fit good! The only starter I have is is the bolt manual one for 2.77 trans. So I guess I'll have to buy another one right? So what bearing retainer and release /throw out bearing will I need to get to fit not only the T5 but the 9" pressure plate?
1965 Mustang 200 six 2.77 3 speed manual transmission. Early SSBC front disc brake conversion, Carter YFA carb with homemade throttle linkage, modified small log carb sparcer, modified 78 maverick 250 ci breather assembly. Magnaflow muffler.

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bubba22349
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #20 by bubba22349 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:33 am

You have three choices on the starter replace it with the 1967 up two bolt unit or if your can find a 2 bolt manual trans noise cone and the 67 starter drive pinion, swap these onto your current stater (a fairly easy job), last you can use a small block Ford V8 mini starter if you have headers or plan to use them this might be a good choice.

With the 5.0 V8 T5 trans the stock bearing retainer is used for this 200 swap, however if it’s Aluminum check for wear many people perfer to use the steel retainer. The stock 1967 pilot bearing (for a stock 3.03 trans) is used so you need to change to that one. The stock 1967 up 200 / V8 throwout bearing is used so the one you have now. The stock 1967 up clutch Release arm is also used. So you should have that now right?

Also if you wouldn't mine taking a few pictures of your 1978 D8 block using the 2.77 bell housing parts, plus showing the casting numbers, and after you get it apart showing the back of the duel drilled block without the flywheel and block plate installed the site members sure could use this info to clear up the info on these later model blocks. Good luck on the T5 swap. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

chero1369
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Re: What starter is needed for 65 Mustang T5 swap.

Post #21 by chero1369 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:08 am

Count the teeth on the on the starter drive gear on the 2.77 starter.I'm sure counting is easier than yet another ring gear.If you can't replace the drive gear,go buy another starter.I don't have it handy,but I believe the 2.77 starter has a different tooth count.thought I'd help save a few bucks.
I'm using a Mcleod MCL-16031 throwout bearing which will fit standard t5 bearing retainer and is 1&1/16".it is $54 at summit.I like having a grease zerk on it.I make sure all my throw out bearings have a grease zerk because I live in the desert,sand you know..
The only little problem I had with my mechanical linkage was that I had to grind the inside edge of the clutch fork a little to allow the bearing to pivot freely.It didn't take much

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