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Looking for a "How to add a brake booster" article

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Vin Man
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Looking for a "How to add a brake booster" article

Post #1 by Vin Man » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:02 pm

I have a 67 mustang with drum brakes all around. I would like to add a brake booster, but don't know what is involved and what parts are needed besides the booster itself.

Anyone done this before that has a process they can share?
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
My Engine History Thread: viewtopic.php?t=50725
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Post #2 by rocklord » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:18 pm

Just Google "installing power brakes 67 Mustang".

Got this link:

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/howto/mum ... index.html

I should help.
Dan

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Post #3 by Vin Man » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:19 pm

rocklord wrote:Just Google "installing power brakes 67 Mustang".

Got this link:

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/howto/mum ... index.html

I should help.


This article was just what I'm looking for - thank you.

I went ahead and coverted the online article into something that could be printed out. It's 20 pages total, but you can take it out to the garage and see the pics as you do the work.

I don't know how I would post the pdf file here, but if someone wants it, shoot me an email and I'll get it to you.

Edit: Try this link. Select the pdf file to download:
http://digitalvault.cox.net/invite/login?c=33323135393635332d333662632d313164642d623732372d303030303766303030303031&i=10a94-11fa9b62647-coxprod_gemini1&t=604cb9c71b830812&r=mg&lang=en
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
My Engine History Thread: viewtopic.php?t=50725
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Post #4 by Vin Man » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:31 pm

I started my project today to add the power brake booster to my 4 wheel drum brake setup.

I purchased a brake booster from someone that had got it from NPD. The label read 67-70 Power Brake Booster replacement for AT/M

I expected I was going to need a new brake pedal, but that was not the case.

I removed the existing master cylinder, and drilled out the threads on the two holes that were originally holding the cylinder in place.

The new brake booset used those exact same holes and the rod from the booster went right onto my existing pedal no problem.

The problem I got into was the master cylinder. The orignal MC had the rod that connects to the brake pedal on it. I needed the master cylinder without the rod. No problem, though, Checker had one for $20. Only difference is the cap on the MC bolts on as opposed to held in place with the bar clamp.

I got one of the brake lines connected to the new MC, but I need to replace the second line. It goes from the MC to the distribution block. I'll have to do some creative bending, but expect it not to be too bad.

If I don't finish tomorrow, it will have to wait till next week.
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
My Engine History Thread: viewtopic.php?t=50725
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Post #5 by mustang6 » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:02 am

Vinny I'm sorry to say that if that is truly an OEM brake booster you will need to change the pedal. The issue with the pedal is not the connecting point of the brake rod to the pedal being in the right place, the issue is that the pivot point for the pedal is in a different place to give a different pedal ratio. See the picture below- the longer one is the power pedal, notice the brake rod attachment points are in the same place as measured from the pedal.

As you have found out, a manual pedal will bolt up to a power booster but the result will be power brakes that are EXTREMELY touchy and hard to apply without locking them up (unsafe). It may even damage the booster.

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Scott

68 Mustang 200 ci, Aussie 250-2V head, Dual Headers, Comp Cams 252H, DSII w/MSD 6AL, T-5, V8 suspension.

65 Ranchero 200 ci, late 170 head, Autolite 1101, 3.03 3 speed, Maverick 8" 4 lug rear with 3.55 gears.

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Post #6 by james singleton » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:32 am

Deleted by me!

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Post #7 by Ronbo » Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:01 am

[quote]It may even damage the booster.[quote]

Thats what happened to me. Brakes were extremely touchy and ultimately the booster failed within months. After changing pedals I now get a couple of years out of the booster. I have bad luck with master cylinders (I always buy the cheaper ones, this last one is a Bendix) and once they leak into the booster the booster will let go. The last booster (changed out this weekend) had the fingers inside broke off and wouldn't hold vacuum. Its like they were made to last only so long.

Ron
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2011 F-150 Lariat ECO Boost
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Post #8 by Vin Man » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:25 am

Thanks for the info! I'll go ahead and switch out the pedal.

Edit:
I have to admit, I'm a bit bummed out. I thought I would need the new pedal, purchased one, and it turned out to be the wrong one. An honest mistake by the shop that sold it to me. The shop will get me the proper one no problem.

I'm bummed because I can't drive the car today :cry: . It's a beautiful day for it! I'm headed out of town tomorrow on business and may not get an opportunity to work on the car again for a couple of weeks. I can't go back to the original setup because I no longer have the original master cylinder and I still need to replace a busted brake line between the MC and the distribution block.

That 20X factor never fails me. Always something that happens that causes the job to take 20 times longer than it should. This is a 2 hour project at best when you have the parts ready to go. For me, its going to wind up being a 2 week project.... :arg:
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
My Engine History Thread: viewtopic.php?t=50725
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Post #9 by Ronbo » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:02 am

You end up going way up to the top of the dash with the new pedal. For some reason I'm thinking I had to drop the column down to get it up there? Sorry, my memory gets worse and worse... :?


Ron
2017 F-150 Lariat ECO Boost
2011 F-150 Lariat ECO Boost
68 Mustang, power drums/steering, AC, single outlet coated header, Holley 350, DS II w/Accel super coil
80 Goldwing (half the Mustang :))

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Post #10 by 67_6cyl » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:02 pm

I picked up a booster and cylinder that bolted right in. It also came with an adaptor piece that fit on the original pedal to get the ratio right. It went in in all of two hours, including the plumbing. I think I picked it up from Scott Drake or some such outfit.
Finally there

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Post #11 by Vin Man » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:04 am

The 20X factor continues.

I picked up the proper pedal (the longer one today). Before I bolted it in, I thought I would install the new brake line and then bleed the brakes.

Had fun bending the line, but finally got it in. Bleeding the brakes has been another challenge alltogether.

I would up going to Sears to purchase a new MityVac vacuum brake bleeding kit. Still had probelms getting the rears done, but finally looks like good fluid is throughout the lines.

The problem is with the new - that's right NEW - booster that I purchased. I purchased the booster only, then wound up having to switch out my master cylinder. So I have invested the $100 in the booster and $20 in the MC. But the booster won't hold a vacuum. Of course I did not check this before I installed it - why would I? I would say a fair assumption is that a new brake booster would hold vacuum - WRONG!

So now, I have to remove MC, remove booster and still need to install the proper pedal. I can't get my money back on the booster as I bought it from another individual. It was new, in the package, but maybe it just sat too long and the diaphram cracked. I don't know.

Hopefully, I can still use the MC I purchased. However, it may be cheaper and easier to just purchase a combined unit. We'll see....

EDIT: Do you think it might be the check valve? Can this be repalced on my booster?

Looks like this:
Image
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
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Post #12 by Ronbo » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:14 am

It could be....put your spiffy new mity vac on there and find out ;) Just to give you an example of how many ways these can fail, this last booster I had, the metal fingers on the inside that hold the diaphram to the inner portion broke free. The brakes worked but if you hit the pedal more than twice in succession you've lost vacuum.

The good side Vin? If you do have to change it, it will be easier to get the pedal in there.

Mightyvac: You should be able to pump it up and hold pressure with it. When you disconnect it, it should still hold, if not replace check valve. If you have no vacuum at all while the car is running, recheck your connections and if its not that you have a bad diaphram. Where are you pulling vacuum from by the way?

Last note and its important, I DO remember (I have the memory of a small farm animal these days :lol: ) with the wrong pedal in there the angle of the push rod was such that it would push up and hit on the booster preventing it from moving far enough. I made my own adjustable push rod to get it going which led to the other stuff ultimately leading to the correct pedal. Check and make sure that is not what is happening to you. Save ya some dinero for the brewskis after you get the pedal in ;) Hope this helps some.


Ron
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2011 F-150 Lariat ECO Boost
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Post #13 by Vin Man » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:31 am

Ronbo wrote:It could be....put your spiffy new mity vac on there and find out ;) Just to give you an example of how many ways these can fail, this last booster I had, the metal fingers on the inside that hold the diaphram to the inner portion broke free. The brakes worked but if you hit the pedal more than twice in succession you've lost vacuum.

The good side Vin? If you do have to change it, it will be easier to get the pedal in there.

Mightyvac: You should be able to pump it up and hold pressure with it. When you disconnect it, it should still hold, if not replace check valve. If you have no vacuum at all while the car is running, recheck your connections and if its not that you have a bad diaphram. Where are you pulling vacuum from by the way?

Last note and its important, I DO remember (I have the memory of a small farm animal these days :lol: ) with the wrong pedal in there the angle of the push rod was such that it would push up and hit on the booster preventing it from moving far enough. I made my own adjustable push rod to get it going which led to the other stuff ultimately leading to the correct pedal. Check and make sure that is not what is happening to you. Save ya some dinero for the brewskis after you get the pedal in ;) Hope this helps some.


Ron


Thanks Ron. I'm pulling vacuum directly off the intake manifold. I did put the mityvac on the check valve while it is on the booster and tried to pull a vacuum, but it did not hold. I figure the new check valve is a cheap thing to try and see if it does the fix.

As I am still using the wrong pedal, I'm wondering if I should change the pedal before I try the check valve replacement. It's getting changed one way or the other, might as well try it now, right? If I do have to remove the booster later to replace it, I don't need to pull the pedal to do so (or am I wrong here too?).
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
My Engine History Thread: viewtopic.php?t=50725
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Post #14 by Vin Man » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:31 am

Ronbo wrote:It could be....put your spiffy new mity vac on there and find out ;) Just to give you an example of how many ways these can fail, this last booster I had, the metal fingers on the inside that hold the diaphram to the inner portion broke free. The brakes worked but if you hit the pedal more than twice in succession you've lost vacuum.

The good side Vin? If you do have to change it, it will be easier to get the pedal in there.

Mightyvac: You should be able to pump it up and hold pressure with it. When you disconnect it, it should still hold, if not replace check valve. If you have no vacuum at all while the car is running, recheck your connections and if its not that you have a bad diaphram. Where are you pulling vacuum from by the way?

Last note and its important, I DO remember (I have the memory of a small farm animal these days :lol: ) with the wrong pedal in there the angle of the push rod was such that it would push up and hit on the booster preventing it from moving far enough. I made my own adjustable push rod to get it going which led to the other stuff ultimately leading to the correct pedal. Check and make sure that is not what is happening to you. Save ya some dinero for the brewskis after you get the pedal in ;) Hope this helps some.


Ron


Thanks Ron. I'm pulling vacuum directly off the intake manifold. I did put the mityvac on the check valve while it is on the booster and tried to pull a vacuum, but it did not hold. I figure the new check valve is a cheap thing to try and see if it does the fix.

As I am still using the wrong pedal, I'm wondering if I should change the pedal before I try the check valve replacement. It's getting changed one way or the other, might as well try it now, right? If I do have to remove the booster later to replace it, I don't need to pull the pedal to do so (or am I wrong here too?).
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
My Engine History Thread: viewtopic.php?t=50725
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Post #15 by Ronbo » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:50 am

No, you wont have to pull the pedal but if you DO have to change the booster....it will be easier to get the pedal in. Just make sure that push rod isnt your problem i.e. holding the pedal in or keeping it from going in. Actually, disconnect the pedal from the push rod while you are troubleshooting. If you were able to pull any vacuum on the booster then it might just be the check valve. Good luck!
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Post #16 by Vin Man » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:54 pm

:bang:

This is turning into a nightmare.

I just tried to put the new pedal on. It goes to the higher pivot point on the bracket. I was able to get my hands up there and finally, through some great twisting, scraping, and tongue hanging out of the side of my mouth at the right angle, got the bolt thru the pivot point, and into the pedal. BUT - it wouldn't go all the way through. It was interfereing with a bolt that is holding in some type of bracket.

SO, I remove the bolt and the try again. The bolt holding the pedal goes in further, but still not all the way. Now there is interference with the above mentioned bracket itself, not the bolt holding it in place.

I fear if I remove the second bolt holding in the bracket, I am going to open up an entirely new set of problems.

I needed to step away for a little while to learn some new cuss words. The drama continues.
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
My Engine History Thread: viewtopic.php?t=50725
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Post #17 by Vin Man » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:15 pm

I got back to it and got the pedal bolted in. :party:

Now for the next significant issue. I can't bolt the pedal onto the booster. The pedal won't come far enough forward to attach to the booster arm. See picture.

Image

The reason the pedal won't come forward anymore is there is a flat piece of steel that is part of the pedal at the very top. On the pedal in the picture that Mustang6 posted, this piece of steel is not there. However, I don't know if his pedal is aftermarket or not? Mine is an orignal pedal that has been refurbished by a local shop. If you look in the picture below, you can see my pedal. It is the one in the center:

Image

One option is to remove the pedal, and grind this piece off. Let me tell you how appealing that is given the amount of fun I had getting it installed in the first place.

Another option is to give up this foolish idea of a power brake booster....

EDIT:
A little more info that I found on Mustang Steve's website: http://www.mustangsteve.com/fyi_brakepe ... edals.html

Looks like the booster I need is supposed to have the curved input shaft, not the straight shaft. I feel like I've gotten the straight shaft on this project....
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
My Engine History Thread: viewtopic.php?t=50725
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Post #18 by Ronbo » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:41 am

Ronbo wrote:You end up going way up to the top of the dash with the new pedal. For some reason I'm thinking I had to drop the column down to get it up there? Sorry, my memory gets worse and worse... :?


Ron



Remember this....I think thats why I dropped the column :oops:

Sorry man, couldn't remember.
2017 F-150 Lariat ECO Boost
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Post #19 by Ronbo » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:45 am

EDIT:
A little more info that I found on Mustang Steve's website: http://www.mustangsteve.com/fyi_brakepe ... edals.html

Looks like the booster I need is supposed to have the curved input shaft, not the straight shaft. I feel like I've gotten the straight shaft on this project....




RGR that big guy, you need the curved arm. That is not the correct booster in there. Either that or the guy did like I did initially with the wrong pedal and made an adjustable push rod.

Vinny, do you have the seat out of the car? It's four bolts and buddy, if your spine is like mine, it makes a world of difference for 15 minutes work.

Ron
2017 F-150 Lariat ECO Boost
2011 F-150 Lariat ECO Boost
68 Mustang, power drums/steering, AC, single outlet coated header, Holley 350, DS II w/Accel super coil
80 Goldwing (half the Mustang :))

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Post #20 by Vin Man » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:21 pm

Ronbo wrote:
EDIT:
A little more info that I found on Mustang Steve's website: http://www.mustangsteve.com/fyi_brakepe ... edals.html

Looks like the booster I need is supposed to have the curved input shaft, not the straight shaft. I feel like I've gotten the straight shaft on this project....




RGR that big guy, you need the curved arm. That is not the correct booster in there. Either that or the guy did like I did initially with the wrong pedal and made an adjustable push rod.

Vinny, do you have the seat out of the car? It's four bolts and buddy, if your spine is like mine, it makes a world of difference for 15 minutes work.

Ron


Yes, I've had the seat out of the car since I started this project. It definitely has made a difference.

The booster I have does have an adjustable arm on it. I have it adjusted all the way in and it still cannot connect to the pedal. I am prepared to do one of two things today:
1. - Remove the pedal, cut off the metal tab at the top that is causing interference, and put the pedal back on. See if that works with the existing booster.
2. - Leave the pedal as is and replace the booster with one I got at Checker yesterday with curved arm.

A third option is to go back to the original pedal, although I realize that means I may put more force on the booster when stopping due to the incorrect pivot point or ratio or whatever it is called. Problem with this option is that I wasn't getting any pressure built up in the booster when I orignally did this and don't know if I actually have a good booster.

How do you test a booster? It does pull vacuum through the check valve. However, how would I test to see if the booster is actually holding pressure?

I picked up a booster with the curved arm yesterday.
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
My Engine History Thread: viewtopic.php?t=50725
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Post #21 by Ronbo » Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:24 pm

They do sell boosters with the adjustable rods (aftermarket) and I guess it is to work with the original pedal? Don't know for sure. Use your mighty vac and draw vacuum, if it holds do not disconnect the mighty vac, get in the car and see how the brake feels. I think three pumps is the rule? After that it will get hard again (man, that just doesn't sound right). If it works ok, it be the check valve. All that does though is hold vacuum after the engine is off. You should still be able to get one or two good pumps before the pedal stiffens up.
2017 F-150 Lariat ECO Boost
2011 F-150 Lariat ECO Boost
68 Mustang, power drums/steering, AC, single outlet coated header, Holley 350, DS II w/Accel super coil
80 Goldwing (half the Mustang :))

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Post #22 by Ronbo » Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:29 pm

http://www.cougarpartscatalog.com/69brkboost.html


Check that page out. I guess in 70 they went straight. Then of course came disco. :lol:
2017 F-150 Lariat ECO Boost
2011 F-150 Lariat ECO Boost
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80 Goldwing (half the Mustang :))

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Post #23 by Vin Man » Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:36 pm

Ronbo wrote:They do sell boosters with the adjustable rods (aftermarket) and I guess it is to work with the original pedal? Don't know for sure. Use your mighty vac and draw vacuum, if it holds do not disconnect the mighty vac, get in the car and see how the brake feels. I think three pumps is the rule? After that it will get hard again (man, that just doesn't sound right). If it works ok, it be the check valve. All that does though is hold vacuum after the engine is off. You should still be able to get one or two good pumps before the pedal stiffens up.


So, with the adjustable rod, i could keep my original pedal? That would be nice as I could return the pedal I purchased along with the booster with the curved rod. A savings of about $250!

Now, before doing so, I need to make sure the booster in the car works. I have done the following.

-Original pedal (short)
-brakes bled
-new booster
-vacuum off the intake manifold (I have one with my aussie head :D )
-car running
-many many pumps of the brakes without noticing any stiffness in the pedal.

I'm tempted to try this one more time, but to expect different results doing the same thing is definition of insanity. Are there other things that you would recommend trying? Should I adjust the pushrod to give me more of a stroke on the brake pedal?
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
My Engine History Thread: viewtopic.php?t=50725
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Post #24 by Ronbo » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:53 am

Vin, I guess I'm confused (go figure)? If you can get a few pumps off the pedal and its not stiffening, what is telling you the booster is not holding vacuum? You won't get any more than three pumps with the engine off, vacuum will run out. I wouldn't adjsut the rod until you have the other stuff sorted out.


Ron
2017 F-150 Lariat ECO Boost
2011 F-150 Lariat ECO Boost
68 Mustang, power drums/steering, AC, single outlet coated header, Holley 350, DS II w/Accel super coil
80 Goldwing (half the Mustang :))

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Post #25 by Vin Man » Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:24 pm

Ronbo wrote:Vin, I guess I'm confused (go figure)? If you can get a few pumps off the pedal and its not stiffening, what is telling you the booster is not holding vacuum? You won't get any more than three pumps with the engine off, vacuum will run out. I wouldn't adjsut the rod until you have the other stuff sorted out.


Ron


I assumed the reason why I wasn't feeling any stiffness in the pedal was the booster wasn't holding vacuum. That was likely and incorrect assumption.

I've got it all hooked up right now with the original shorter pedal. I took it out for a test drive yesterday.

When I press the brake pedal, I have to push it almost to the floor before the brakes are engaging. Another way for me to try and describe it is that when I'm pressing the pedal, it moves about 3/4 of its total available travel distance before I feel like I'm getting any brakes.

I hear air vacuum as I'm pressing, but there is no resistance till I"m almost at the bottom of the pedal arc. Once I do engage the brakes, they work as they did before and do stop the car. I've locked up the driver rear wheel a couple of times in my tests. I suspect there might still be a little air in the brake lines so another bleed is in order.

This is all with the shorter pedal and the booster with the straight arm. If I go to the longer pedal, I would think it would be even worse.
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
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Ronbo
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Post #26 by Ronbo » Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:50 pm

Vin, how did you make out today?
2017 F-150 Lariat ECO Boost
2011 F-150 Lariat ECO Boost
68 Mustang, power drums/steering, AC, single outlet coated header, Holley 350, DS II w/Accel super coil
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Post #27 by Vin Man » Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:13 pm

Ronbo wrote:Vin, how did you make out today?


I haven't had a chance to work on it yet. Will do so after dinner. I noticed my brake lights are not working anymore. I suspect I shorted out the switch while under the dash so I'm going to run to the store and get a new one.

When I get back, I'm going to bleed the master cylinder. I'm going to do it in the vehicle with the help of a friend. I'll remove the brake line connections, install the plugs (found them) and have him slowly pump the pedal. Once the air bubbles stop, I'll reconnec the brake lines and bleed the brakes. Hopefully, that will fix the problem.

If not, I'll remove MC, and lengthen the pushrod that goes from the booster into the MC by 1/2 turn. I'll keep you posted.
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
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Post #28 by Vin Man » Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:17 pm

I just looked online and see that there are different part numbers for the stoplight switch depending on power or manual brakes. As I am converting to power brakes from manual, but using my original pedal from manual brakes, I'm wondering I still need to swap out the stoplight switch. Thoughts?
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
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Post #29 by Vin Man » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:16 am

Progress is the opposite of what I have been making today.

On the positive side, I purchased all the necessary hardward to convert the car to 5 lug drum brakes in the rear and 5 lug disc brakes in the front. However, it got to 94 degrees today, so I don't think I'll be doing the conversion until the fall. The summers here are just too hot.

Regarding the current plan to boost the existing drum brakes. I spoke with Ron (ronbo) and have a plan to bleed the mc and possibly adjust the rod between the booster and the mc. I think that will take care of my problem with pedal travel. However, I've encountered an electrical problem.

While I was under the dash switching out pedals, at some point I remember shorting out the stoplight switch. That is, I saw some sparks fly when the back of the plug that connects to the switch contacted the metal steering column. No, I didn't have the battery disconnected which was my mistake.

Anyway, now my brake lights don't work anymore. I replaced the stoplight switch and they still don't work. I tested the switch - it is getting power on one side, and when the switch is made by pushing the pedal, the power comes onto the other side of the switch as well.

I do have turn signals and running lights. The turn signals share the wire and filament in the bulb with the brake lights so I know that I don't have a problem there.

There are no fuses specific to the brake lights. So now I'm trying to track down someplace else where the circuit specific to the brake lights is not working. What a nightmare. I'm not very inclined electrically and had a friend help me read the wiring diagram. However, that doesn't help much.

Any shortcuts someone could suggest? At this point, I suspect either the headlight switch (since I believe the brake light circuit runs through this device) or some other connector in the harness. Thanks. I"m going to post in the electrical section as well.
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
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Post #30 by BIGREDRASA » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:25 pm

Here's one guy with all the parts and knowledge needed. http://www.mustangsteve.com/BRAKES.html
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Post #31 by Vin Man » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:21 pm

I have used Mustang Steve's website before - thanks.

Now that I have my electrical problem resolved, it was back to the brakes this afternoon.

Per Ronbo's suggestion, I bench bled the master cylinder, then rebled the brakes. I still have no resistance when I press the pedal until it is almost on the floor. At that point, the brakes work.

Ronbo's next suggestion was to remove the MC, and adjust the length of the rod that comes out of the booster and goes into the MC. No more than 1/2 turn. I'll either try that tonight, or possibly Friday. I'll keep you posted.
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
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Post #32 by Vin Man » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:58 pm

Before I take the MC off and adjust the rod between the booster and the mc, I'd like to validate that I have a good booster. I've created a separate thread asking for advice on how to test the booster. If you can help, please respond in this thread.

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57026

Thanks.
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
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Post #33 by Vin Man » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:22 pm

I finally got it working. I'm going to document everything here, so others can learn from my many mistakes.

A couple of lessons learned in this process:
1. Master cylinder should be bench bled before installing in the car.
2. If you don't have brake lights, the problem might not be where you expect. If no power to stop light switch, check/replace headlight switch. If power to switch, but still no brake lights, check/replace turn signal switch.
3. You cannot use a vacuum pump test by itself to tell you if booster is good. Need to use process outlined in the shop manual.

I'll start with the resolution to my pedal travel problem. I lengthened the rod that comes out of the booster and goes into the mc. When I did my measurements, it seemed the rod was about 1/4" too short. A couple of turns made it 1/4" longer. However, this did not affect my pedal travel problem. The pedal still traveled about 6 inches before brakes would engage.

What did fix the problem was lengthening the adjustable rod that connects to the brake pedal itself. See this pic:
Image

You can see where the pedal attaches to the arm that comes through the firewall. I had made this as short as necessary for the hold to fit onto the pin. However, by adjusting the rod to make it longer, and then putting on the pin, you are essentially "preloading" the booster. That is, I had to start the car and push the rod forward a bit to get it onto the pedal. This took up the extra slack I had in the pedal movement.

The first time I made the adjustment, I made the rod too long and my brake lights were staying on all the time. My brakes were just about engaged without any pressure. I then adjusted it back in a couple of turns and EUREKA!

So, I know have power brakes with my 4 wheel drum setup. Immediate improvement noticed.

My overall project cost came out as follows:
1 - I purchased the booster brand new from someone else. I did not buy direct from NPD, however it was still in packaging. Cost=$80
2. - New master cylinder from Checker Auto was $21. I had to use my original as a core.
3. New brake line to go between distribution block and mc - $4
4. My aggravation and time - PRICELESS

So my investment is $105. But I also wasted money on a new headlight switch and brake light switch that I didn't need which cost me about $23. I had to buy a new mityvac pump for about $70. I had already purchased the turn signal switch as an improvement so I won't count that cost here.

Bottom line, I invested about 10 hours of my time and about $200 to get this done.

Thanks again to everyone for their help and insigts.

Next up - front disc brakes and an 8" 5 lug rear end....
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
My Engine History Thread: viewtopic.php?t=50725
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Post #34 by Ronbo » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:58 am

I had to buy a new mityvac pump for about $70.


WHAT?!!!!! :roll: Vin, you needed that pump!! We all NEED tools! That thing is great for a multitude of tasks. :lol:

Glad you are up and moving again. Enjoy!

Ron
2017 F-150 Lariat ECO Boost
2011 F-150 Lariat ECO Boost
68 Mustang, power drums/steering, AC, single outlet coated header, Holley 350, DS II w/Accel super coil
80 Goldwing (half the Mustang :))

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Re: Looking for a "How to add a brake booster" article

Post #35 by KustomSkylark » Wed May 13, 2009 12:10 pm

Vin Man wrote:Next up - front disc brakes and an 8" 5 lug rear end....


Just finished that up on my Comet a few weekends ago, if you run into snags and need help let me know. I'm just up the road from you in Tempe.

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Re: Looking for a "How to add a brake booster" article

Post #36 by Vin Man » Wed May 13, 2009 12:16 pm

KustomSkylark wrote:
Vin Man wrote:Next up - front disc brakes and an 8" 5 lug rear end....


Just finished that up on my Comet a few weekends ago, if you run into snags and need help let me know. I'm just up the road from you in Tempe.


Thanks! I'll let you know. I plan on waiting till the fall. Now that we are over 100 degrees daily, its time to focus on projects up North in Strawberry!
-Vinny

67 Mustang Hardtop, 200 Inline 6 bored .040, OZ250 Head, Autolite 2100, DUI ignition setup and headers, front disc brakes, 8" rear end
My Engine History Thread: viewtopic.php?t=50725
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