Drum brake questions

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falcon_master
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Drum brake questions

Post #1 by falcon_master » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:19 pm

Hi everyone. I have a few questions about drum brakes. Not about how they work or how to fix them ive worked on them before. It's just about the safety of 4 wheel 9in drum brakes connected to a single master cylinder with no dial circuit or other safety system. I'm not worried about the steering as I've used manual steering before on a full sized car but never manual brakes on a full size. My first question is are these adequate for normal street use with the stock 170. And is it still safe to use them as like I said earlier it has no safety if there is a leak in one of the lines. Also I know brake fade on drum brakes is a big problem. Thanks everyone for the info
High School car enthusiast. Likes all things ford and engines of any company. 64 falcon 2dr sedan with 170 special six and "3 on the tree" column shift manual transmission. Still in restoration phase.

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wsa111
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Re: Drum brake questions

Post #2 by wsa111 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:02 pm

Use new Bendix new brake shoes. Do not use relines the friction composition is too hard.
Install a power brake setup & the stopping ability will be satisfactory for normal street driving.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, duraspark II dist. with MSD-6AL. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
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Re: Drum brake questions

Post #3 by frozenrabbit » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:25 pm

Never had any issues stopping with manual drums. Easy upgrade is to put in a '67 mustang drum/drum master. That will separate your front drums from the rear drums. Have to use an original master push rod. Either "T" junction mount the brake light switch, or mount a brake switch inside on the brake pedal arm.

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Re: Drum brake questions

Post #4 by CZLN6 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:40 am

Howdy Back FM and All:

At the least, IIWIYS, I would upgrade to a dual bowl master cylinder from a '67 Falcon or Mustang. Dual bowl master cylinders became standard in the 1967 model year. I would also carefully inspect the flex hoses on all four corners.

I stayed with drum brakes on my '65 Rancher build with no problems. No fade problems. I think that would be an issue in racing situations where serious and sustained braking is required. The Rancheros and station wagons did have a wider shoe and drum. If brake fade is an issue in your situation you can also consider drilling a series of holes in the drums to allow hot gases to escape.

The first question should be- is this a safety or high performance question? If basic safety is the issue, I'd add a seat belt/shoulder strap and a collapsable steering column to the dual bowl master cylinder as first priorities. Along with a good set of tires.

What is your intended us for your Falcon?

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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Re: Drum brake questions

Post #5 by bubba22349 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:55 pm

:hmmm: all excellent suggestions I will add that when you are rebuilding the brakes check the backing plates raised slide pads (were the shoes rest on the baking plate). These after many years of use can be worn and have groves in them that cause the shoes stick or hang some and to ware at a slight angle. I weld those pads up a grind them flat again so that shoes is sitting up straight 90 degrees to the baking plate. This low budget fix plus some new brake hardware kits will get you back again to your full factory braking power. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Drum brake questions

Post #6 by chad » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:04 pm

some put in frnt discs...
I like the dual reservoir MC suggestion.

As per David - "What is the typical use (driving) of the vehicle?"
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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falcon_master
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Re: Drum brake questions

Post #7 by falcon_master » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:21 pm

Hi everyone. Thanks for the info. I plan to use it as a daily driver to school as I'm just about 16. I plan to drive it about a total of 60-80 miles a week. I'll update some pics and maybe a video if I have time soon thanks everyone
High School car enthusiast. Likes all things ford and engines of any company. 64 falcon 2dr sedan with 170 special six and "3 on the tree" column shift manual transmission. Still in restoration phase.

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Re: Drum brake questions

Post #8 by Econoline » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:28 pm

Drum brakes are really cheap to totally rehab. Be meticulous, file/sand if needed to get the contact points on the backing plates flat and smoothed and polished-like, weld is sometimes needed to fill really deep groves. Use antiseize at all contact points including the auto adjuster mechanism, wire etc and the adjuster threads when you assemble the brakes. Use all new components except the backing plate and drum, if the drum is ok for turning on a brake lathe. They're cheap. Flush and/or replace the lines as needed while you're at it, i.e. give them an inspection. If you buy a double flare tool don't cheap out on the tool, get a good one or borrow one. I like the rigid set I have and it was fairly cheap for a good flare tool. The cheap ones are crap. Low budget tubing benders on the other hand can get the job done well if needed. And most importantly, put the nut on before you flare the tubing ;) :D

I rebuilt my 10"x2.5" rear brakes for $155 shipped from Rockauto for everything but the backing plates, including new drums and wheel cylinders, you name it everything.
Last edited by Econoline on Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Respectfully,

Seth

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StarDiero75
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Re: Drum brake questions

Post #9 by StarDiero75 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:52 pm

Howdy,

My 65 Ranchero has the stock 9" all the way around with the single master cylinder. I still have the single and have been driving it for a year and have had no probs. I also replaced all the brake lines so that adds to my security a little. I do plan on adding a power dual bowl brakes and going to disk on the front.
They make adapter for the disk brakes for 6cyl which is nice. You get to keep your old spindles so you don't need to modify the steering system any. Now I have a 66 Mustang 8" rear and it has the 10" brakes, which work fine with my setup.

The 64 and 65 falcons had power brakes an an option so you can put power on them, the old body 60-63 couldn't put power on them unless you modified the stock tower.

Good Luck,
Ryan
--1965 stock 200 Ranchero w/ 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), weber 32/36, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected.
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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falcon_master
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Re: Drum brake questions

Post #10 by falcon_master » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:28 am

Also I know this is off topic but on saftey. Is it possible to install 3 point seatbelts. At least for the front. Because I know lap belts are better than nothing but your face is still gonna smash into that metal dash without the other strap
High School car enthusiast. Likes all things ford and engines of any company. 64 falcon 2dr sedan with 170 special six and "3 on the tree" column shift manual transmission. Still in restoration phase.

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rickwrench
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Re: Drum brake questions

Post #11 by rickwrench » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:27 am

falcon_master wrote:Also I know this is off topic but on saftey. Is it possible to install 3 point seatbelts. At least for the front. Because I know lap belts are better than nothing but your face is still gonna smash into that metal dash without the other strap


3-point belts are easy enough with a bit of welding to secure the shoulder belt anchors. The B pillar has stamped holes that most use to weld in the upper and lower anchors.

How I did mine:
http://www.rickwrench.com/falconsquirebelts.html

Drilled drums will give you braking performance comparable to disks with much less unsprung weight. For a daily driver, it doesn't make much monetary sense to switch to disks. Cost of a couple drill bits vs spindles/hubs/rotors/calipers/pads (and probably wheels).
Good article here:
http://www.chtopping.com/CustomRod4/

A two circuit MC is also a wise investment.

Rick(wrench)
'62 Falcon Wagons (x2), Kellison J5, V8 Alfa GTam, Corvair Corsa:
www.rickwrench.com

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Re: Drum brake questions

Post #12 by CZLN6 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:09 pm

Howdy All:

Excellant references Rick. I would add that a piece of steel as a backing for where the floor bolts anchor is also a good idea.

The idea of drilling drums is a great one. Just be sure to space and stagger the hole evenly or balance and strength can become an issue.

Along the same lines is the idea to file or saw slots across the shoes. This was a trick from my motocross days, before disk brakes on motorcycles. I started with new shoes and used a rat-tailed file to produce angled grooves across the shoe, from edge to edge. This lessens contact somewhat, but not enough to notice. And it is sure alot easier to do than drilling hole in the drums. Either way, is a good improvement to drum braking.

I hope someone weighs in with a reference on upgrading the steering shaft "spear" issue. For safety, this issue sure is worth exploring.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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rickwrench
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Re: Drum brake questions

Post #13 by rickwrench » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:01 pm

CZLN6 wrote:Howdy All:

I hope someone weighs in with a reference on upgrading the steering shaft "spear" issue. For safety, this issue sure is worth exploring.

Adios, David


I think matching the sector shaft dia. with a later (67+ iirc) rag joint box sector shaft does the trick. The column might be a slightly different length. If you're tall, a slightly longer column is nothing to complain about. You won't be stuck driving Ferarri style (arms straight, barely reaching the wheel)
In any case, a rag joint will flex in a bad collision and flex the column/wheel upward. You won't catch the spear through your chest.

Good link:
http://www.fordfalcon2000.com/restorati ... column.htm

Rick(wrench)
'62 Falcon Wagons (x2), Kellison J5, V8 Alfa GTam, Corvair Corsa:
www.rickwrench.com

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chad
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safety: brakes & steering shaft

Post #14 by chad » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:33 pm

"...on a full sized car..."
it's a light vehicle.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Drum brake questions

Post #15 by Just_Fare » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:18 pm

Here's my 2 cents, even though they turfed the penny up where I'm from. I installed a power brake system with the four wheel drum brakes and I am very happy with it. My Fairlane stops really well now whereas I felt the original small manual brake system was a death trap. Additionally, I have "new in box" the newer two line 1967 + manual brake cylinder that others have mentioned above which I will happily sell to you if you want it.

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StarDiero75
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Re: Drum brake questions

Post #16 by StarDiero75 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:22 am

Does the dual res power brake system bolt right into a 64/65 falcon? I know you could get them as an option but i think thats just the single res. I plan on doing a front disk conversion and i want to do dual power.

Ryan
--1965 stock 200 Ranchero w/ 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), weber 32/36, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected.
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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bubba22349
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Re: Drum brake questions

Post #17 by bubba22349 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:26 am

Yes it's pretty much a bolt on with Fords interchangeability of parts. But since the first dual brake master cylinders didn't come out until the 1967 models it takes a little reworking or making new ones of some parts like the brake lines ect. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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