wobble of death

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ludwig
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wobble of death

Post #1 by ludwig » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:05 pm

Yes, this came up once before. I had the front end rebuilt last year. Worked fine with just a little shiver up to now. Lately, the driver's side will start wobbling fiercely at about 40 MPH, enough to shake the whole truck furiously. Sometimes braking aggravates it. Sometimes it quiets the wobble down. If I pull the wheel sharply to the right, the wobble will go away pretty much. It only crops up at about 40 and not at speeds above 50.

Doesn't wobble all the time. Sometimes after hitting a dip; sometimes on flat pavement. Every so often.

The shop can't get it to wobble today. **Guaranteed**, it will start on the way home.They said everything looks fine. I have all new bushings and 1 yr old Bilstein shocks. Could it be the pitman arm or some connection to the body? The rotor seems to surge a little, warpage or whatever but not overly strong.

Anybody?
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Re: wobble of death

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:32 pm

I am assuming that yours has the twin I beam front end. In the rebuild did the inter axel bushings actually get replaced? Often those bushings are not replaced or even looked at because it requires the complete disassembly of front end. Anyway that's were I would look first you could try to see if you can use something to put outward pressure (pry bar or?) on each wheel to see if it moves any. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: wobble of death

Post #3 by ludwig » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:40 pm

I just reviewed your comments from last year and offered to send them to the shop. Shop couldn't duplicate it and they won't pull anything off on spec, which I suppose it okay. They don't want to soak me.

Personally, I think it is the radius arm bushings - which used to wobble and shake when braking under load. I had them replaced a few years back.

Where would I look for the inter-axel bushings? I have never heard of these and you didn't mention them last year.

Of course, I understand that it is the sum of all looseness in the parts, but I am sure it is ONE SPECIFIC thing that I/we/they have not yet pinpointed.

It's the utterly conventional RWD I6 with 3 speed.
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Re: wobble of death

Post #4 by ludwig » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:46 pm

Pivot bracket?
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Re: wobble of death

Post #5 by bubba22349 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:12 pm

Yes it's the axel pivot bushings in the axel ends bolted into the pivot mounts these are located near the center of front crossmember. They can be a little hard to see without getting under the truck or pulling the axel to check its condition but it's possible. You could try using a flashlight and look at each side inside of the pivot mounts. The radius arm bushings would also cause trouble if bad though since you replaced them in the resent past I would say it's not likely. Other than that look for a bent wheel or if that rotor has a lot of wobble could cause some trouble. Good luck :nod:


Here's what they look like might be some difference depending on the year of truck.

http://www.carid.com/1980-ford-f-150-dr ... aQodymgJKQ

This is some on an F 250 but they will much the same.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=evGHZUwnTbo
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: wobble of death

Post #6 by ludwig » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:23 pm

The shop suggested that the hole in the frame for the radius arm bushings might be enlarged. I will have to crawl around down there and check stuff out.

Thing is, it did't do it, then all of a sudden it did to it. Same tires, same springs, new shocks helped some. Bilsteins don't go bad in a year and maybe 12,000 miles, most of them on the road.

Maybe I"ll have to wait for an overt failure, where the wheel stands sideways to the fender before the source becomes apparent.

Probably won't hurt to replace those pivot bushings. Looks like a press-in with a c-clamp. Right? Add in: I checked the vid. Yes. Press in.
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Re: wobble of death

Post #7 by bubba22349 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:28 pm

:hmmm: Yeah sometimes it's hard to pinpoint the source of trouble, though with these front ends there are only a few areas that will cause any trouble. Right those pivots being bad are a big cause of that type of trouble. Did they replace them when it was rebuilt?
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: wobble of death

Post #8 by ludwig » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:35 pm

NO they did not. So that's where I'll look next. Then the radius arms. That was what was wrong the last time. And the axle pivots have never been replaced.
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Re: wobble of death

Post #9 by bubba22349 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:51 pm

Well then I'll bet that you will find your trouble right there. Best of luck not a fun job to do them but well worth the effort. :nod:

Yes and I also do remember talking with you before about this problem, though I don't remember what all we discussed that last time. So if I didn't mention looking at those pivot bushings before I do apologize, it could of been a case of brain fade on my part or else maybe I assumed that they had replaced them during that rebuild. :bang:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: wobble of death

Post #10 by 78merKri6 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:26 pm

Ludwig:

Look for loose.broken or missing gearbox mounting bolts. That can cause your symptom.

Good luck.

Gary
sVehicles: 93 F150 4x4 300BB,stock w/dual outlet Clifords ; 78 Mercury Bobcat w/250SB andC4 auto 2800 stall,milled head, Holman- Moody cam,Offy,3 singles (Holley), port divider, homemade headers; 65 Mustang coupe 200 6 w/C4,stocker--driven&shown.

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Re: wobble of death

Post #11 by ludwig » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:31 pm

ALL suggestions will be given equal weight. Thanks for the tip, Gary.
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Re: wobble of death

Post #12 by aribert » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:00 am

I had a persistant "driveline" vibration on my Falcon that was in a fairly narrow speed band. After looking for it for most of a summer, I found out that the "driveline vibration" was from a front wheel bearing.

You mentioned there might be some rotor warpage. Here is my story: One of the rotors on my F150 was warped - there was some pulsing in the pedal on hard braking but I have driven other people's vehicles that were much worse. I did not get around to replacing it last Fall. I had bought a new rotor (and had a new set of wheel bearings on hand) but I was about to put it off till next spring (truck is not driven in winter). Last Wednesday afternoon something felt a bit off as I pulled into a parking space (at an auto parts store of all places). When I pulled back onto the road there was suddenly a bad rumble - drove is like that for about a mile until I was able to pull off into another parking lot. By the time I was turning off of the road there were no brakes. Total failure of the outer wheel bearing - caliper was attemping to hold the rotor (wheel) in place. Bearings were replaced 3 yrs ago - name brand bearings not house brand Chinese. The caliper retainers had already dropped out. I did a rotor (had my wife rescue me and fetch the rotor) and wheel bearing replacement in a K-Mart parking lot using the headlights of my wife's car to help illuminate. I had no idea that there was a wheel bearing issue. I grab at 12 and 6 o'clock and try to rock the tire and spin my wheels whenever one is jacked up - probably 4K miles since I last did that. In hind sight, I am guessing that the rotor pulsing on heavy braking loaded the wheel bearing causing it to fail prematurely. THe scary thing to me is that Wednesday morning on my way into work, I was on the freeway, heavy fast pre rush hour traffic - speed limit is 70 - I doubt anyone even it the far right lane was going that slow, I was in the far left lane, keeping up with the traffic flow. What if that bearing had disintegrated then?
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Re: wobble of death

Post #13 by ludwig » Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:49 am

Wow. That's definitely good/bad.

I will definitely look at the bearing first b/c the left wheel pulses when braking, and sometimes the brakes make it start. That makes as much sense as all of these things. Was thinking about replacing the rotor anyway so I'll definitely check the bearings.
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Re: wobble of death

Post #14 by chad » Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:33 pm

Whaja find?
"The Dreaded Death Wobble" in the trucks happens when a suspension lift is put in w/o makin sure the track bar to drag link geometry is parallel.
Again - doesn't sound like yer problem b/c this one is constant (I believe) not intermittant as in yours
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: wobble of death

Post #15 by chad » Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:33 pm

double post
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: wobble of death

Post #16 by ludwig » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:54 pm

Well, so far it hasn't gotten bad enough fast enough to tear anything apart. I am still leaning toward the wheel bearings and new rotors.

I still can fix the problem with a one or two quick jerks on the wheel or a dab on the brakes. I even drove from LV to LA and back to get some building materials and there was no problem at all. I held it at 65 and all was good. After I got home and unloaded the truck, the thing shook like a bad vibrato.

I am sort of waiting for a complete failure so the shop can do it for me. Right now it is worse but not too bad mostly -- until it get really bad.
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Re: wobble of death

Post #17 by chad » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:13 am

Frm this last report (only) sounds like warped break rotor - U got discs?
Also sounds dangerious, plez have a knowledgable individual look @ it w/o alot of driving, no?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: wobble of death

Post #18 by ludwig » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:58 am

Knowledgable certified mechanic can't duplicate the condition. Thus he can't fix it.

Warped rotor is part of the problem. It has to get bad enough to find. And it is doing so slowly.
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Re: wobble of death

Post #19 by chad » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:20 am

ok…
just a lill worried abt U & safty (well ur daughter, really) on the rd.
:shock:
:lol:

(supposed 2 B a joke)
but truly, hope ur safe out there!
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: wobble of death

Post #20 by ludwig » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:03 pm

Don't worry bout me. I'm doing it for myself. Thanks.

I stopped operating floridly unsafe vehicles when I left home and started to buy my own. Bout 5 decades ago.
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Re: wobble of death

Post #21 by chad » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:11 pm

too poor myself, go out on the rds every day like that - 's may B where the feeling came frm.
be safe (4 self AND others!). Hopin it's rotors...
Enjoy ~
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: wobble of death - Solved

Post #22 by ludwig » Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:09 am

So I only had to replace one thing to solve the problem. Unscrewed the front plate and drove a new truck up behind it: 2008 I6 with 5 speed stick.

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Re: wobble of death

Post #23 by chad » Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:20 am

now is that any safer?
(gotta start back @ the begining 2 know…

can U part out the old 1 to me?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: wobble of death

Post #24 by ludwig » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:49 pm

Carmax would know. Hey, they gave me $750 for the old buggy. That's what I had in the topper two years ago, but it was already used at the time and the seals were dried out.

I am a VERY happy camper now. All new problems, starting yesterday, Monday.
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Re: wobble of death

Post #25 by chad » Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:26 pm

"…All new problems, starting…"
Let's hope they take a long time to show up/cause losses.
I'm less worried bout ja on the rd now!
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: wobble of death

Post #26 by woodbutcher » Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:58 pm

:hmmm: Ludwig,you turkey.THAT`S cheating. :rolflmao: :rolflmao: :rolflmao: :banana:
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo
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Re: wobble of death

Post #27 by ludwig » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:54 pm

Leo,

I'd tell you my secret, but then you'd win too.

he he
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