The new OLD FTF gets a "Duesenberg DOHC 4-valve"

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The new OLD FTF gets a "Duesenberg DOHC 4-valve"

Post #1 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:01 pm

Progress to date:
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Post #2 by Stealth Bummer » Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:08 pm

Very, very nice.
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Post #3 by SuperMag » Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:47 pm

Is the "inspection window" on the side of the block a Duesenberg original feature? :lol:
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Post #4 by Stubby » Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:37 pm

That's positive crankcase ventilation. Yep, it's positively ventilated. :lol:

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Post #5 by ludwig » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:14 pm

Yeah, but when he gets it done it will be a doozy.
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Post #6 by mutt » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:28 pm

Have you ever used three of those 1bbl Holleys from the 50's/60's that sported rectangular glass floatbowls? Since we are talkin a visual as well as mechanical effect.
I remember those lil 1bbls had economiser valves, too......is there some reason I havent seen any of those model carbs on the (few) tripower 6 setups ive had the delight to see? Usually, I see those.....strombergs?, a la 235 Chevs....Im aksin coz if i find a triple manifold at a swap meet, Im wantin to use them carbs. But if cool looks are outwieghed by some inherent shortcoming, Ill stick to the Offy C.
I always thought they were neat looking,- artful, rather Hunnish in thier stark outline. & id always scrounge glass bowls for my friends rigs.....saved me trouble, as I was the on call wrench for all sorts of hipsters in rural Varmint, way back when....Id know at a glance if the pothead was outta gas. Or had crap under the bowl inlet valve.

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Post #7 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:33 pm

mutt wrote:Have you ever used three of those 1bbl Holleys from the 50's/60's that sported rectangular glass floatbowls?


Good idea mutt. I'll start looking for them. I want to dress up the engine to make it look old - I thought about hanging those brass/glass oiler reservoirs on the engine and snaking a few polished copper lines around the rear too.
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Post #8 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:52 pm

SuperMag wrote:Is the "inspection window" on the side of the block a Duesenberg original feature? :lol:


Ah yes - it happened in the 1937 Indy 500 - was running third on lap eighty-four came out of turn four high - got in the marbles and broke traction - the engine free-reved and kicked a rod - oiled the tires and kissed the wall shearing off the rear wheel. Ended my day.


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Post #9 by Lazy JW » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:58 pm

ludwig wrote:Yeah, but when he gets it done it will be a doozy.


I presume you know from whom that term came?
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Post #10 by Geezer 300 » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:01 pm

As in Duesenberg?? Probably before my time :lol:
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Post #11 by Lazy JW » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:03 pm

"Doozy"
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
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Post #12 by ckelly83 » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:50 pm

That is gonna be one sweet car when done. I don't mind fabbing up a few small things on a project, but your ENTIRE project is all fabricated......very cool.

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Re: The new OLD FTF gets a "Duesenberg DOHC 4-valver in

Post #13 by tjm73 » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:21 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:Progress to date:
Image


Love this 3x1 manifold you fabed up from three stockers... 3 Autolite 1100's at 157cfm each makes for a nice 471cfm total.

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Post #14 by shmoozo » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:17 pm

All I can say is when it's finished park it down at some local cruise night with the hood open, station a woman next to it to keep an eye on it, have her pretend to know nothing about the car except "it's really old, I think," and stand back a ways to watch the fun.

:)

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Post #15 by Lazy JW » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:37 pm

Lazy JW wrote:
ludwig wrote:Yeah, but when he gets it done it will be a doozy.


I presume you know from whom that term came?
Joe


William Claude Dukenfield, AKA W.C. Fields, owned a Duesenberg (maybe more than one, I dunno) of which he was quite proud. He referred to it has his "Doozy", and the term came to be used meaning something really spectacular.

And now you know part of the story :lol:
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Post #16 by mwmitton » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:40 pm

Lazy JW wrote:
Lazy JW wrote:
ludwig wrote:Yeah, but when he gets it done it will be a doozy.


I presume you know from whom that term came?
Joe


William Claude Dukenfield, AKA W.C. Fields, owned a Duesenberg (maybe more than one, I dunno) of which he was quite proud. He referred to it has his "Doozy", and the term came to be used meaning something really spectacular.

And now you know part of the story :lol:
Joe


I'm going to have to beg to differ here. A quick search reveals another origin of the word. (keep in mind, I believe the net is ALWAYS right and never lies)

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-doo2.htm
http://www.alphadictionary.com/goodword/word/doozy

Seems it may have morphed from the word daisy. huh.

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Post #17 by Lazy JW » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:50 pm

Any man who hates small dogs and children can't be all wrong. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it :lol:
Joe
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Post #18 by ludwig » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:58 pm

I subscribe to that guy's newsletter and he is authoritative. On the other hand, there is no reason to believe that the same SOUNDING word cannot be generated in two different places and at different times from a different source and yet they mean something similar. (Linguists call this polygenesis.) In this instance we used to have the Champagne of bottle beers, and something was the Cadillac of reclining chairs (and some times I took my dog out to make a Beemer).

Anyway, American usage traces doozy directly to the Duesenberg. And as I said that in my own cute way because how many times does somebody in 2006 get to say, much less write for all to see, "That is a doozy," AND IT REALLY IS!!!!!!

Ahhh yes. WC Fields: "Somebody put orange juice in my orange juice."
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Post #19 by Muki » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:05 am

This project must now be the most "art deco" 300 so far ! I'm sure FTF knows there are alternators which look like ole' 6-volt but are 12-volt AC internally....just crossed my mind, in respect to achieving the "looks"

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Post #20 by Ferris Bueller » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:01 am

Cool car. Tell us about the barn n silo. Are they useable?
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Post #21 by Thad » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:57 am

About the carbs? Would updrafts be period appropiate? Sure you don't need more suggestions it just a question.

When I was a kid would look at updrafts waiting for the insides to fall out. :roll:

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Post #22 by mutt » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:40 pm

another carb suggestion: theS&S Super B, a now antiquated fixed jet sidedraft- very long. i saw a pic of a 300 w/ three of them, each w/ the S&S teardrop aircleaner.....spooged me trousers, I did.
No acellerator pump, they wanted roll on throttle handling. I ran one on my shovelhead for quite a while - very elegant looking devices.
Theyve been long superceded by the S&S "shortie" carbs, which sacrificed VE & ram effect for you not having to keep your knee way the heck out in traffic.....I see them at swap meets, around $50. blank off the top hole on yr neat fabricated manifold, & mount it on the sides. I bet you could have air horns stickin out your cowl side, then.

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Post #23 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:56 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions. I still haven't ruled out the crossflow head - the DOHC head fits either. The barn is no longer in use, just used for storage. Neat backdrop though. I may dirty up the champ car w/mud and dust, push it inside, and take a few "as found" pics later.
Later.


NOTE TO SUPERMAG: did you happen to see the feature in this months issue of Street Rodder magazine on the old car junkyard in Salmon, Idaho? Why do I think you know right where it is
?
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Post #24 by cdherman » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:28 pm

Yeah, I covet your barn. Wish I had a old one instead of my generic morton shed.

Course, I covet a number of things that FTF shows us.

Oh well, so much for that one of the ten commandments........ :twisted:
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Post #25 by Seattle Smitty » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:41 pm

Maybe not right away, but at some point that engine MUST have a centrifugal blower, and big chromed flex-tube exhaust pipes coming out the side of the hood. Man oh man oh man ! ! !

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Post #26 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:30 pm

Work Begins on the Stainless Steel Exhaust System:

Image

Image

I decided to start the exhaust system before the holidays. The hardest part will be the megaphone-style header pipes. I made a cone out of .072" thick stainless steel. This stuff was so tough that I was unable to fully form it in my manual slip rollers, so I ended up putting it in a hydraulic press between two dies to get it started then wrapped a couple of chain vise-grips around it to get it in a semi-circular shape. Next I stood it on end and pressed a series of circular objects over it to get it to finally conform to the shape of a cone. Whew! six hours of grueling work!
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Post #27 by shmoozo » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:14 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:Work Begins on the Stainless Steel Exhaust System: ...



Very cool. It appears that you're building something that is similar to the Lime Fire series headers made by Sanderson for a variety of V8 applications in T-Bucket roadsters, but without the lower connector flange they build for the under-the-car exhaust. Instead I would imagine that you will be coming back out of the large end of the tapered pipe and running a long pipe back along the right side of the car and (I'm guessing here) over the rear axle after dipping it just low enough while passing the cockpit that you don't burn the skin off your right elbow ( :P ) in the same way racing cars of that era ran them. If so, man, that is really going to look cool.

:)

Out of curiousity have you decided on a finish for the exhaust? I mean, you could build the entire thing from stainless and then polish it, or you could chrome it, or you could give both the header and pipe some kind of matte black coating, perhaps one like the "Satin Black 2000 degrees" ceramic coating at the bottom of this web page which would give you a really durable finish that would nicely simulate the black finishes often seen on vintage race car exhausts.
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Post #28 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:37 pm

You got it. shmoozo. I hope to use 4" polished stainless all the way back with a perforated heat shield near the driver's elbow. There was supposed to be a finished photo of the cone but I must have messed up my photo host website. Will remedy. (fixed 12/27). The cone gets five eliptical holes for the primary pipes (plus the sixth entering the front).

This is indeed similar to the Limefire exhaust.

I think it would make a good turbo manifold if reversed, no? Hmmmmm - I have a big Rajo turbo somewhere...

Next: Wood body bucks to define the shape of the sheetmetal.
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Post #29 by shmoozo » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:02 am

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:You got it. shmoozo. I hope to use 4" polished stainless all the way back with a perforated heat shield near the driver's elbow. There was supposed to be a finished photo of the cone but I must have messed up my photo host website. Will remedy. The cone gets five eliptical holes for the primary pipes (plus the sixth entering the front).

This is indeed similar to the Limefire exhaust.


I love the idea of the perforated heat shield from both an esthetic perspective and a safety perspective.

:)

If you are planning to try to make it period authentic the patterns of the perforations might be important. I seem to recall finding a web page for a company that sold a broad variety of types of perforated metal sheets. They had holes of various shapes laid out in a variety of patterns and pattern densities. Until I poked through their web pages explaining it all I had no idea such a variety of perforated sheets existed.

I don't honestly know if I can find that company's web page again, but if you like I will try.

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:I think it would make a good turbo manifold if reversed, no? Hmmmmm - I have a big Rajo turbo somewhere...


Heh .. might not be period correct, but it would likely make it a wee bit faster.

:)

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:Next: Wood body bucks to define the shape of the sheetmetal.


You are such a tease ...

:)

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Post #30 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:26 pm

Regarding the perforated exhaust cover: Thanks shmoozo, but there is a company locally that sells all kinds - I sometimes use it in my art metal sculptures.

What I plan to do for this particular cover is make a curved saddle out of solid stainless and punch an array of recessed holes small enough so that they can't amputate a finger or "cheese grater" my bare skin, leaving a solid border and a place for mounting stand-offs.
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UPDATE: JULY '07

Post #31 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:30 pm

I am going to post a few more photos but in order to keep this post from getting too long to download in the future I will return to this post and just edit out the old photos and paste in new ones.

This will be my last post on this car for a while as there are more pressing projects that I must turn to..

Date of current photos: 7/07

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Post #32 by shmoozo » Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:46 pm

Seeing all these pictures of the project that have been posed on that lovely, curving gravel driveway with the farm buildings in the background I'm beginning have hopes that after this project it completed you'll post a link to a video that shows you grinning like a maniac while you man-handle the thing through a wild, 4-wheel-drift around that driveway, slinging gravel and scattering a large flock of terrified chickens.

Yeah, I know, it's a cliche, but ya just have to smile when ya think about it, don't ya?

:)

Oh, and by the way, you do realize that you're going to need a really cool, vintage-looking set of goggles to wear while you're driving that thing, right? It would be downright blasphemous to wear more contemporary eye protection while driving that thing.

:)

Oh, and as dashing as they look, skip the long, silk scarf flowing in the breeze. Darn things are too prone to getting caught in the spokes and, well, I think you can see where that might go.

:(

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Post #33 by addo » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:30 am

Yeah! Leather helmet and goggles! :twisted:

I nominate this as FSP's "Coolest project of 2007".

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Post #34 by shmoozo » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:25 am

addo wrote:Yeah! Leather helmet and goggles! :twisted:

I nominate this as FSP's "Coolest project of 2007".


Well, we should probably give him time to finish the car first, eh? This project isn't exactly a weekend build, ya know. He's got to hand form the entire body and fabricate a whole bunch of parts, some of which are likely to be fairly complex. We wouldn't want him to rush this thing, would we? And, of course, racing season is fast approaching and he's likely to be pretty busy with other things for a while.

:)

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Post #35 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:10 pm

shmoozo wrote:Seeing all these pictures of the project that have been posed on that lovely, curving gravel driveway with the farm buildings in the background I'm beginning have hopes that after this project it completed you'll post a link to a video that shows you grinning like a maniac while you man-handle the thing through a wild, 4-wheel-drift around that driveway, slinging gravel and scattering a large flock of terrified chickens.

Yeah, I know, it's a cliche, but ya just have to smile when ya think about it, don't ya?

:)

Oh, and by the way, you do realize that you're going to need a really cool, vintage-looking set of goggles to wear while you're driving that thing, right? It would be downright blasphemous to wear more contemporary eye protection while driving that thing.

:)

Oh, and as dashing as they look, skip the long, silk scarf flowing in the breeze. Darn things are too prone to getting caught in the spokes and, well, I think you can see where that might go.

:(


Yes, as I sat and pondered the car I did imagine doing a four wheel drift on video. No chickens though.

I am looking for a pair of those old goggles. And an old flight cap that covers my ears. And maybe a jockey-style helmet that they wore. A friend in the next town over has a large collection of old midgets and memorabilia. Maybe he will loan me stuff for a photo.

No silk scarf, check. Dont want to pull an Isadora Dunkin. On a related note some co-workers used to tease me about the clip-on long ties I wore to work - until I asked them if they ever saw an engineer's tie get caught in a water pump pulley of a dyno engine spinning at several thousand RPM.
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Post #36 by shmoozo » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:32 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:Yes, as I sat and pondered the car I did imagine doing a four wheel drift on video. No chickens though.


Okay, we can always get Industrial Light and Magic to add the chickens later anyway.

:)

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:I am looking for a pair of those old goggles. And an old flight cap that covers my ears. And maybe a jockey-style helmet that they wore. A friend in the next town over has a large collection of old midgets and memorabilia. Maybe he will loan me stuff for a photo.


That sounds like it would be a good source for the right sort of gear for the video, but you may want to get some of your own for when you take that thing out to play.

:)

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:No silk scarf, check. Dont want to pull an Isadora Dunkin.


Certainly not.

:)

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:On a related note some co-workers used to tease me about the clip-on long ties I wore to work - until I asked them if they ever saw an engineer's tie get caught in a water pump pulley of a dyno engine spinning at several thousand RPM.


Most of my old engineering professors didn't wear ties, even in the classrooms (much less the lab and shop areas), and I have a distinct memory of my junior high school shop teachers explaining why wearing ties around lathes and other similar power tools was a really bad idea. The clip-on tie pretty much eliminates the concern, however, doesn't it?

Even safer is a clip on bow tie, but I'd rather go tieless, myself. Machine shops, garages and engineering labs should be regarded as tie-less zones if you ask me.

:)

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Post #37 by ludwig » Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:03 pm

Even safer is a clip on bow tie, but I'd rather go tieless, myself. Machine shops, garages and engineering labs should be regarded as tie-less zones if you ask me


I should think that if you have your tie properly secured under you suit coat, then there won't be too much to flap outside of your grey labcoat while you are working, right?
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Post #38 by Silver Shadow » Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:18 pm

I should think that if you have your tie properly secured under you suit coat, then there won't be too much to flap outside of your grey labcoat while you are working, right?

Thet is one of the nice things about my cleric collar, nothing hangs. :) Also I seen guys loose fingers because of rings, and ears because of earrings. :roll: :roll:
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Post #39 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:20 pm

ludwig wrote:
Even safer is a clip on bow tie, but I'd rather go tieless, myself. Machine shops, garages and engineering labs should be regarded as tie-less zones if you ask me


I should think that if you have your tie properly secured under you suit coat, then there won't be too much to flap outside of your grey labcoat while you are working, right?


In some dyno cells things tend to get red hot, necessitating huge blower fans to keep the electronic bits from cooking, etc. Add that to the miriad of plumbing, instrumentation booms, exhaust systems to step over, duck under and otherwise avoid means ties can fly about at will.

Let's see: Blistering heat, ear-splitting noise, gale force winds, and the threat of dodging shrapnel at any moment - not a great working environment. Kinda makes me think of our boys in the mid east and their daily plight.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

Stealth Bummer
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Post #40 by Stealth Bummer » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:24 pm

I must say, looking at those pictures, you are a handome brute! I imagined you as being taller, though.
But I still have more holes in my head than you!
1959 F100, Short-wide box, big back window, IFS, 300/C4 trans (work in progress)

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There's a fixed amount of intelligence in the world, yet the population continues to expand- START HOARDING!!

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THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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Post #41 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:47 am

Yuk, Yuk, Yuk. Actually the head form is left over from a full size suit of armor I am making. I get it out each Halloween to make a few more details. Ever watch a little trick-or-treater run from a seven foot suit of armor he thought was an inanimate decoration?
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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addo
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Post #42 by addo » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:51 pm

A helmet like this?

Image

£49 from holden.co.uk - a British vintage bits supplier. This model is called the "Spitfire".

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82F100
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Post #43 by 82F100 » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:16 pm

FTF, have you been here ? http://thevintageracer.com/
300's make good truck motors....not race motors

Muki

Post #44 by Muki » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:10 pm

Do you have a nickname for the project, FTF ? It kinda begs for a cool name to be known as.

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Post #45 by STEVEN. » Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:00 pm

The "Duesen-Bruiser" :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: . Very cool l'il project Mr. Flyer. Now there's another name you could use. American-Flyer,as in the 50's model train maker. ~OO6.

chico

Post #46 by chico » Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:53 pm

with apologies to FTF........

lionel kicks AF's ass.

WATCH OUT FOR THE THIRD RAIL! :lol:

sorry to hijack this thread, now back to our regularly scheduled programming..........

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Post #47 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:12 pm

82F100 thanks for the web site - I added it to my favorites.

Actually I WAS thinking of a clever name. I should start a contest to name the car. Maybe give away my crossflow head to the winner as a prize. *

So far the only thing I thought of was "Frenchtown Special" painted on the cowl and "Duesenberg Factory Racing" painted in the hood side panels. And of course "#6" on the radiator and rear body sides with several vintage decals (Mobilgas, USAC, etc.) down the frame rails. And then I'd like to get some of my driving heroes to autograph it.

addo, Sweet helmet. I could use it in the boudoir too.

Lionel Trains rule - many pleasant childhood memories.












*Maybe NOTTT!!! But I will send you a free copy of the article "Building Ford's Big Six" I penned with a FTF personalized autograph and my undying thanks for thinking up a good name.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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82F100
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Post #48 by 82F100 » Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:12 am

FTF, What if we can't come up with a name for your ride?Can we still get a signed copy of the article?
300's make good truck motors....not race motors

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Post #49 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:28 pm

I guess so. But I had better put together a post-article update to reflect some of the stuff I learned in the last quarter century of tinkering with these engines. Maybe I ask for a little donation to cover printing and shipping if there is large interest.

In my spare time.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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82F100
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Post #50 by 82F100 » Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:49 am

Where should I send my donation?Spare time ? whats that LOL.
300's make good truck motors....not race motors

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