first time ever transmission

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first time ever transmission

Post #1 by fordpryncess » Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:51 am

hi i havent been here in a long time
but this is where i come to get help you guys are awsome

my 66 falcon with a 200 and c-4 trans
is down with a bad transmission

since ive never replaced one before maybe someone has a step by step
for me that they wouldnt mind sharing
people ive talked to say its real easy but i dont know how so if i could get
some pointers id appreciate it
:D

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addo
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Post #2 by addo » Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:32 am

The main fun-and-games for a DIY swap is wriggling under the car with a trans balanced on your guts. It really is a job best undertaken with two people; at least one needs to be mechanically confident and the other needs a brain and eyes.

A trans swap usually involves swapping the torque converter as well. A good used C4 should have the bands adjusted before installing (it's easier then) and a replacement modulator fitted, along with new filter and pan gasket.

You need quite a lot of clearance under the car, so a pair of jackstands is essential. Ensure the car is well-blocked against moving while you're under it. The handbrake needs disconnecting usually, so there will have to be other means of holding it still.

From memory:
•Disconnect battery, remove spark plugs. This makes it easy to turn the motor over with no risk of starting accidentally. Place the trans in "N".
•Carefully undo the trans cooler lines at the radiator. You need two "flare nut wrenches"; one to hold the fitting, one to turn the flare nut (they're different sizes). Some fluid will drain out - try to contain it.
•Remove the starter motor. If your trans has a removable inspection plate then ignore the next instruction.
*Use a screwdriver in the flywheel teeth to pry the converter around, exposing the attachment bolts. One at a time, loosen and remove these fasteners and any lockwashers.
•Jack up the car and install the jackstands as mentioned earlier.
•Remove the trans inspection cover at the front of its bell. Use a screwdriver to pry the torque converter around, and when they're exposed loosen and remove the attachment bolts that hold the converter to flexplate.
•Undo the rear U-joint clamps at the tailshaft, and carefully unplug the tailshaft from the trans. Put it to one side. Make sure the bearing caps don't fall off the far end when it's being waved about.
•"Crack" all the bolts holding your trans to the motor. Don't remove any yet, but leave them to be easily undone later.
•If you need to remove the rear brake cable, measure how far along the adjuster it is tightened, and write this measurement down. Now undo it and use a twist of tie wire to keep it all out the way.
•Locate and undo the speedo cable where it is bolted in. Take care to keep track of the bolt and washer, and temporarily wire the cable out of harm's way.
•Undo both the oil cooler lines, noting which goes where (a strap of tape and marker pen work well!) - they can now be removed from the car and set aside safely.
•Ease out the filler tube and dipstick from the casing and put them aside.
•On the other side of the trans, now unplug the neutral switch.
•Disconnect the kickdown cable at the trans, and pry the shifter link free from the shift arm on the tranny. again, use tape or wire to keep things from dangling around and annoying or obstructing you.

***At this point, the trans should be loosely bolted to the motor, supported at the back by the crossmember and nothing else to stop you pulling it.

•Get your trolley jack and slab of wood; jack it up snug under the trans pan. Remove the bolts that secure the rear crossmember to the frame, and the nuts that hold it to the rubber mount. Place the crossmember aside.
•It's important now to be very attentive. You don't want the trans falling off the jack... Remove the bolts holding the trans to the motor. Don't move anything yet.
•The unit now must be withdrawn from engaging with the flexplate. It's essential to make sure the torque converter doesn't stay stuck there while the rest slips free. The trans may bind a little on the block's dowel pins so MINOR and EVEN (left and right) prying can help. Don't mar the surfaces of either part. Keep checking that the converter is coming free.
•You'll know it's fully out when the motor slumps a little backwards. If there is the height, roll the trans out balanced on your jack. If not, carefully tip it onto a piece of board, and drag free from the car.

At this point, I like to stop and thoroughly clean myself and everything I've removed. Stuff under cars invariably gets oily grit coating it and the thought of that grit fouling threads and O-rings doesn't excite me.

Installation is generally the same but I'll let someone else talk about how to seat the torque converter before installing the whole unit (an important process). It's also somewhat more trying to lift/slide/bolt the trans up compared to taking it down...

I hope that the instructions are somewhat of assistance - learning this stuff always is a bit rocky at first.

Regards, Adam.

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Post #3 by JackFish » Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:20 am

That's an awesome post Adam, and it would be a good sticky in the drivetrain section.

El Ranchero

Post #4 by El Ranchero » Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:45 pm

Excellent step-by-step. I might add a couple suggestions, though.

1) Torque converter nuts are notorious for rounding off, be sure to use a GOOD wrench or socket when you remove them, cheap tools will make the job much more dificult.

2) Most equipment rental yards will rent you a transmission jack for next to nothing, usually 8-12 bucks for a day. this will make installing the replacement transmission much easier.

3) If you can find a plug for the tailshaft, either an old yoke, or plugs sold at auto parts stores designed for this purpose, you'll have a much easier time, as you will lose a lot of fluid out the tailshaft when removing the trans. Laying in an oil slick makes everything harder.

bigcliff

Post #5 by bigcliff » Sun Jan 01, 2006 7:24 pm

that is one great step by step post
but if ya dont mind me throwin in my 2 cents, if you have access to a cherry picker style engine hoist use it to support the motor so it doesnt tip back, hopefully this will make it easier to install the new one. it helped when i had to slide my trans back to put in a clutch.

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Post #6 by Asa » Sun Jan 01, 2006 7:30 pm

cherry picker, or a strong enough ratcheting tie strap or a come-along
of course, with these you need something over the car to hold it up
Right and Wrong are just words, what matters is what you do

Susie - a work in progress
Clyde - ya mule!

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Post #7 by addo » Sun Jan 01, 2006 7:58 pm

You forgot the carpenter's approach. Cut a stick of 2×4 just a hair overlength to prop up the motor under the rear section of the oil pan. Install by whacking into place with hammer. :?

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Post #8 by rickwrench » Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:23 pm

I agree that a transmission cradle that sits in a floor jack makes things MUCH simpler. You do have to jack the front end of the car quite high, but when it comes time to re-install the transmission, you arent trying to balance the tranny on the jack with one hand while aligning it with the engine with the other.
Another very helpful tool is to buy two 6" long bolts, cut the heads off, cut a screw driver slot in the end, and screw them into the block as alignment guides. Once the transmission is in place and the torque converter (or clutch and pilot bushing) is engaged correctly, top two bolts go in, unscrew the guide bolts, bottom two bolts then replace them.
Rick(wrench)
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fordpryncess

Post #9 by fordpryncess » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:13 am

great info
but maybe someone can tell me why the torque converter has to be
replaced too the guy i bought the used trans from didnt include or say
anything about that excuse my ignorance but ive only worked on 4 cyl
front wheel drive overhead cam engines i know nothing about rear wheel
drive animals or transmissions for that matter





:oops:

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Post #10 by Stubby » Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:55 am

If your old tranny failed the old converter probably has trash in it and it will end up inside the new tranny. The tranny circulates fluid thru the converter.

danwagon

Post #11 by danwagon » Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:30 am

Stubby wrote:If your old tranny failed the old converter probably has trash in it and it will end up inside the new tranny. The tranny circulates fluid thru the converter.

And to change the converter you have to do everything you are doing now, thus a new converter is hours of work less now then it would be at a later date.

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Post #12 by MercuryMarc » Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:07 am

There have been many great suggestions already mentioned earlier in this thread. In addition, here's a great link from Kenny in Washington-
Lots of pics describing a C4 swap and good info on a rebuild as well as the installation.
http://www.redfalken.com/pages/c4.html
Good Luck
Marc in SF
63 Comet Convertible
69 250 block w/80 Head, Carter RBS Carb, C4 Tranny, Scarebird Front Discs
http://mercurycomet.net

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Post #13 by kukm66 » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:42 pm

Most if not all tranny shops will NOT guarantee their rebuild unless you get a new convertor.
1964 Falcon Futura Convertible
1964 Ranchero

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Post #14 by Stubby » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:45 pm

It is also a good idea to flush out or blow out the cooling lines and cooler but most do not.

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Post #15 by AJ1Overdrive » Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:31 pm

I have found in having mine out 6 different times over the last fourteen years that it is much easier to pull motor and trans together. I have it down to about 45 min to pull both and then you can work with tranmission issues, motor issues all at once.

It does require that you pull the raidator and fan, but add motor mount, transmission mount, drive line and some electrical and wala its out.

For what its worth.
65 Coupe

asimmons04

Post #16 by asimmons04 » Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:44 pm

just a thought, and i will sound like a salesman (again) but if you have to get another torque converter I have a 2500 stall TCI lockup torque converter with only about 1k miles. replaced torque converter and then rest of tranny died. go figure. it was in my friends mustang, but it is out of a C4 also.

You forgot the carpenter's approach. Cut a stick of 2×4 just a hair overlength to prop up the motor under the rear section of the oil pan. Install by whacking into place with hammer.



oddly enough, this works pretty darn good :) after discovering that two motor mounts wont hold an engine i quickly slid about a 2 foot 2x4 under the oil pan. worked great plus the wood wont hurt the paint or damage the pan.
drew :lol:

drpepper

Post #17 by drpepper » Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:17 pm

Great steps. For a C4. Now let's enhance them to include a C6:
1) First ensure your health insurance is paid up and it covers insanity.
2) Get a friend who you know to be very intelligent and has tremendous common sense. Tell him what you plan to do and then listen seriously to him as to why you should not do it.
3) Buy a tranny jack. A very expensive one. In case your cracked ribs are not enough reminder, use the tranny jack to remind yourself to never attempt a tranny pull again.
4) Get a part time job with McDonald's for two weeks (or Burger King, or Jack-in-the-box), and take your first paycheck to a tranny shop so they can r&r and rebuild your transmission, and guarantee it, and get dirty, and risk all the rest....! And all it cost you was a few days of minor labor free food.
5) And of course since nobody ever follows the last step, get a big old block of wood and a big hammer so that you can bang the wood with the hammer to vent all the frustrations you will encounter while attempting a tranny pull. Your dog and girlfriend will appreciate this step.

"Why oh great Doc Pepper do you say this?"

I'll tell you:

I removed my C6 from the T-bird, which in my case involved a whole bunch of 2x6's instead of a proper tranny jack, a whole bunch of wriggling, tottering, and balancing a very heavy tranny, and multiple skin abrasions and cuts. And a three foot long socket extension.
I then rebuilt it following all the steps of a very expensive manual (OK, $15.00 manual), ...... three times. Each time re-installing and then re-removing the tranny only to rebuild it again.
Finally, with it slipping and sliding all throughout its operation, I drove the car to the tranny shop, only to find out that I had a bad valve body assembly (everything else was perfect).

Sad thing is, after 90,000 miles it needs to be rebuilt again,......
and I will try again (see, I never bought that expensive tranny jack as a reminder!)

Actually, a decent tranny shop can r&r a tranny, rebuild it, and guarantee it for about $500 (Hey! Shop around!). If you do it yourself, you will need to buy a torque converter, a complete overhaul kit, 12 quarts of fluid, (a tranny jack), a new fluid pump, front seal and bearing, totalling about $350.00 anyway. And remember, for every shortcut you take (like not replacing that front bearing), you will be r&r'ing that tranny again real soon.

But if you are so intent upon doing it yourself:
1) Make sure you have quality jack stands that go up at least 30 inches (the 2 ton jacks just won't do). FOUR of them. Get the whole car up in the air.
2) GET A TRANNY JACK! A good one. And buy it. If you are successful, you will use it again, and not worrying about how many days rent you owe on a rental is worth it. Hey, you can always sell it to the next BYM when you are done.
3) TAKE YOUR TIME! You have no idea how many injuries and deaths occur because someone was in a hurry removing a tranny from a car.
4) WHEEL CHOCKS! Hey you are removing the tranny and disabling the emergency brakes. What else is there that keeps the car from rolling? And since you only purchased 2 floor jacks...
5) A manual. AND READ IT!
6) A friend. And make sure he isn't angry with you.
7) A very clean workplace. one grain of dirt or sand and you can kiss your rebuild good-bye.

The good news (unfortunately) is that if you are successful, it feels great!

Oh and if you need a manual, save your money. I'll send you mine!

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Post #18 by DaveLS » Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:35 pm

Ideas for a T5, which is about 85 lbs.

Create a car supported transmission suspension that allows forward and backward motion of the transmission. This can be accomplisheed by placeing a belt/rope/strap (ratcheting strap works best - height adjustment) around the tailshaft and runing it up throught gear shift opening in the floor hump to the passanger compartment. Above the hump loop the strap around a piece of short (1-2 foot) 2x4 lumber or jack handel to hold the strap and transmission tail shaft up.

While this system does not support the entire weight of the transmission, it will support a signifcant amount so that the transmission can be manipulated in and out of the bellhousing/adaptor plate system. The front of the transmission can be brought up to approximately correct height on stacked 4x4 and then pivioted on the strap and lifted off the 4x4 for final insertion.

This is significantly better than resting solely on stacked-up 4x4, because the transmission can swing frictionlessly for and aft instead of trying to slide it, or trying to lift the entire weight. Guess how I know.

The front of the bellhousing/engine is supported by a jack so that the engine points slightly up at the front.

Kstang and I recently followed this procedure and were able to swap out a broken T5 for another one in under two hours. The car was on jack stands approximately 18 inches above the ground.

Again this is for a T5 which is a relatively lightweight manual transmission - NOT for for the much heavier automatics.

Regards, Dave
kstang the elder

superheat

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Post #19 by superheat » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:40 pm

i am assuming these tips wll help removing the ford-o. thanks much. i am contemplating air shocks on my 60 ranchero. anybody got any sugg. or part #s or possibly replacing the rear springs. ford-o making god-awful noise in any gear mostly park chokes down and won"t move thanks

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Post #20 by thinman56 » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:42 pm

great posts, brings back memories of getting my T5 in. i tried the jack and 4x4's on the re-install for about 30 minutes. i got so frustrated i finally just got under the thing and muscled it in in about two minutes. at 50 years old and 165 lbs, it's amazing what some anger and adrenaline can accomplish.
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66 fastback, FSPP header/duals, T5, DSII/MSD-6A/Blaster coil, E0 head/roller rockers/2 bbl/shelby drop/granada discs/fancy springs and shocks

mustangsally66

Post #21 by mustangsally66 » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:43 pm

yah like some of you guys have said, i can get my motor and trans out together in about half an hour ! try that with a vee-eight! haha!

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Post #22 by Mercury Mike » Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:39 am

Workin' at a tranny shop I got spoiled with lifts and tall tranny jacks that hold onto your tranny pan. =) Rotating, up-and-down moving gold mines, those things are. I love them! =) Plus, an impact gun and plenty of room to work is nice. =)
1967 Mercury Monterey "unnamed to date" 390/V8/C6
1965 Mustang Coupe "Sally" 200/6/C4 (Sold)
1962 Falcon Ranchero "Veronika" 170/6/C4 (Lost)
1965 Mustang Coupe "Betty" 200/6/C4
1956 F-100 Big Window "Henry" 272/V8/3ontheTreeOD
1968 Chevy Winnebago 350/th350
1966 Dodge Coronet Magnum 440 V8/Auto 3 Spd (Sold)
1970 Dodge SuperBee 383 V8 (Sold)

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Post #23 by rommaster2 » Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:54 am

eh, putting mating my engine too the tranny was pretty easy. My friend had tried by himself for four hours, then i got there and hopped in the engine compartment after positioning it high enough. Then got behind it and lifted while pushing to hold it on, slid right up. Pissed my friend off alot, then again i'm younger then him (hes 50) and i've got about fifty pounds on him too, so its a bit easier for me to push the engine around.

superheat

Post #24 by superheat » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:07 pm

i hope someone is still reading this thread. i am getting ready to pull a 200 and fordo out of a 60 ranchero. my shed will not be ready so i am doing this in a gravel drive. the rad. gen. exhaust are removed, do i try to pull both or one at a time ? thanks fo any input

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Post #25 by Mercury Mike » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:42 pm

If you pull both it's an up-forward-up-forward game. Either way, it's some work. If you have jackstands to put the car up high enough to pull the tranny out the bottom, do it that way. If you don't, pull them both at the same time. =)
1967 Mercury Monterey "unnamed to date" 390/V8/C6

1965 Mustang Coupe "Sally" 200/6/C4 (Sold)

1962 Falcon Ranchero "Veronika" 170/6/C4 (Lost)

1965 Mustang Coupe "Betty" 200/6/C4

1956 F-100 Big Window "Henry" 272/V8/3ontheTreeOD

1968 Chevy Winnebago 350/th350

1966 Dodge Coronet Magnum 440 V8/Auto 3 Spd (Sold)

1970 Dodge SuperBee 383 V8 (Sold)

LPlum
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Re: first time ever transmission

Post #26 by LPlum » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:24 pm

Rickwrench mentioned to cut the heads off a couple of six inch bolts and thread into the block and use for alignment studs. On my 66 mustang this got me in trouble because the tranny bellhousing hit the bottom of the firewall as I slid the tranny back.First of all I started out with about a four inch bolts, then cut them down to about two inches, which they worked great then for on and off guide studs. Hope this helps someone else.

Lowell

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Re: first time ever transmission

Post #27 by mugsy » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:03 pm

But remember: you get your Man Card stamped by doing the "Tranny Bench Press" under a car up on jackstands!!!! Then the next time you get smart and have a friend or spouse help you with the floorjack and stuff.
line 'em up, baby

Found over on Neons.org:
"whats a tranny tunnel?"
"total area is 142 cubic inches"

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