Small Six 215mm Clutch and Presure Plate info

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rickwrench

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A FAQ/sticky on various clutch disks and pressure plates used with the various transmission swaps.
Some info to start-

Early 8.5" flywheel diaphragm pressure plate options.

Ford 8.5" flywheel, step depth = 1.0"

Below are two options that are currently in use, after appropriate flywheel rim skimming (.12" - .13").

1968 - 1994 Alfa Romeo 215mm flywheel, step depth = .878"
1750 & 2000 GTV, 1750 & 2000 Spider

1968 - 1986 Mercedes w/215mm flywheel, step depth = .885"
All w/ 215mm flywheel. 84-86 190 is easiest to find.

Anybody have info on 215mm VW pressure plates or flywheel step depth?

Rick(wrench)
 
Rickwrench, thanks for posting those numbers! I just posted on another post by Darwin on the subject of pressure plates, etc.. I am planning on replacing my stock p.p. (three finger/ Long variety) with a diaphragm p.p.. I agree that a Sticky should be in order. I posted questions concerning the use of "new" versus "remanufactured" pressure plates; three finger variety versus the diaphragm p.p.; and whether anybody has had any problems with the "remanufactured" diaphragm type p.p.. Thanks, Jim
 
I had issues with the last two three finger rebuilds I bought. They were junk. Not from poor workmanship on the rebuilding so much as the fact that had clearly been rebuilt at least three or four times. They were just sloppy and worn out. Garbage in, garbage out.
Goodbye 45 year old FoMoCo, hello brand new Sachs plate.
Rick(wrench)

Some clutch plate info from Darwin:
Darwin":25ws8w2t said:
I was and still am looking at the MB or Alfa diaphragm plate as an option, but the cheapest I could find that looked like an original plate for the MB was $103.00....So, I think for at least the initial phase of getting this thing up and running I am going with the stock pp and of course a new clutch disc.....I have a '68 200 block with the 2.77/8.5" recessed flywheel....I have found a number of options.....which is the right one or the best one here I am not entirely certain.

Napa NCLRF1034----OEM specs....8-1/2 10 spline 1-1/2" shaft---Organic.

Oreillys Centerforce CTR281220 "" "" "" " New Compos.?

Autozone FCP1177D OEM type....."" "" "" " Organic.

The top one is $45.49
The second is ?? looks like over $100.00.

The last one is $33.00 with a $6.00 core.

Of course price is important but from what I have heard the stock pp has it's drawbacks and I want the best clutch/pp combo to try and make up for some of the pp issues that some have talked about.... BTW the middle one is not a full circle/round disc---It is one of those that has square pads all the way around it.
 
Rick, or anybody else out there, I am finally looking to replace my pressure plate and resurface my 8.5" deep dish flywheel. I am looking to replace the stock 3-finger type pressure plate with a diaphragm type p.p., and would like to hear from anybody out there that has installed the diaphragm type p.p., and how do you like it???? I asked some questions about pressure plates back in April or so of this year, but got tied up doing a disc brake conversion, new master cylinder, new brake lines, etc.; and just finished that job, so I am ready to tackle the clutch problem. I put in a new 66' 200cid engine last year, with the "old" 3.03 transmission, and an 8.5" clutch & p.p.! I don't like the feel of my clutch and have done all the adjusting possible, but it still does not feel right; it does not go into gear like it should! I believe the cause is the "tired" pressure plate! I installed a new clutch disc, throw-out bearing, and pilot bearing, when I installed the new engine, but the pressure plate is orginal (a 64') and the flywheel has never been resurfaced! I have read where there may be a diaphragm p.p. from various years and models of Mercedes Benz's, Volvo's, and Alfa Romeo's; and am just wondering who has installed what with their 8.5" dished flywheel, and how do you like it????Since I already installed a new clutch disc and throw-out bearing, were you able to use the stock disc & T.O.B. with the diaphragm pressure plate??? Thanks for your input! Jim
 
Guys......if you have the small bell (4bolt) like my 66, then I recommend a Dial-a-Clutch system....its Exedy made with 21 finger PP and comes as a kit delivered for $152.00 No rebuilt 3 finger or other stuff.

I happened to be in Pawtuckett a few months back and was at a rebuild house. The old guy on the floor was just rebuilding a 3-finger..amidst getting is cigar ashes on the everything...

The things look like hell when the come back and go out the same way. I wouldn't trust them no how no way.
 
I was having a problem getting an Email to RickWrench, so I decided to just post. Maybe Rick or somebody else will have the answer to a question I have concerning the use of a Volvo (68') diaphragm type pressure plate on a 8.5" dished flywheel for my 66' - 200cid engine. I read on a post somewhere, maybe on this forum (?), early last year about using a Volvo diaphragm, but I cannot remember if it was Rick or somebody else that said they have used the Volvo p.p. in place of the stock 3-finger type p.p.! Thanks for any info on this subject! Jim
 
Rick, I found the size of the 68' Volvo/122 pressure plate on a website, and it does list the Volvo p.p. as 8.5"/216m.m. in size! In the picture of the p.p. it appears that the Volvo p.p. has 22 holes in the perimeter; so possibly there are holes that might line up with the Ford 8.5" dished flywheel. It would be nice if it is not necessary to drill & tap new holes!??? I am still interested to hear from anyone who has used the Volvo p.p. on the 8.5" dished flywheel of a 200engine to see if they had to do any resurfacing of the flywheel (for clearance purposes); or any other modifications such as drilling new holes, etc..?? Thanks again for any info! Jim
 
Sorry for the back-to-back-to-back posts, but I keep coming up with some questions concerning the 1968 Volvo 122 pressure plate. From the pictures I have seen of this Volvo p.p. it appears to me that it probably works on a flat flywheel; not the dished 8.5" flywheel that I have on my 66' - 200cid engine. Like the stock 3-finger p.p., and the Mercedes p.p., there is a 1" or so distance between the outer ring of the p.p. (where the bolt holes are for bolting to the flywheel); and the inner ring of the p.p. that makes contact with the clutch disc. I hope I am making sense in describing what I see??? Still curious as to who and where I heard that someone had used the Vovo p.p.??? Maybe they had used it on a flat 9" flywheel or something??? Thanks, Jim
 
I have a question about Throw out bearings for these 215MM. Pressure plates. what kind of throw out bearing do you use with the alfa PP. Flat or rounded? Are the fingers different on the Alfa plate compared to the mercedes?
I was told that I need a rounded throw out bearing instead of a flat one that I bought for the mercedes PP. The guy at the shop said I could probably get away with using the flat bearing but it might wear a groove in the PP fingers. he was unable to find a rounded bearing for the application or did not know what to cross reference it to. I guess if i can find a rounded bearing I'll go with that. still looking though.

I'm about ready to bolt up my 190e sachs mercedes PP setup. I got all the machining done on the 8.5'' dished flywheel. I had .12 taken off of the top rim as well as a small notch on the inside of the clutch disc surface of the fly wheel to relieve for the wider clutch disc springs. I also got them to step up the bolt size to 3/8''. Instead of drilling out the old bolt hole they just taped out one of the blanks to the right of the original holes which where already drilled the correct 5/16'' for the new 3/8'' tap. The clutch shop also bolted the setup together and tested it to make sure it worked and they said the clutch released very nicely. I was also lucky enough to find a nos ring gear for the old flywheel since my old one was pretty bad.

Thanks guys for all the help and thanks to Ricks website which gave me alot of heads up on stuff.

Here are a couple pics of the Flywheel and PP. (unbolted)

 
78 mustang used 10"Long style clutch & pp,I believe,hence my current use

of a 66 dual pattern 200(3.3)79 mustang bellhousing,78 granada flywheel


(previously 3.03 3 spds) and now a 3+1 o.d.trans I can't find a shifter for.

takes a different starter 130+ teeth on flywheel.

use most ford 3 spd, most ford 4 spd and this weird ford O.D. that I can't find a shifter for. :idea: :idea:
 
Just to throw this out there ----

As I am doing my T-5 conversion I found out that a 93 Ranger has the correct sized clutch and pressure plate. I'll send photos.

Jason
 
TxAgs66":2q8j9otg said:
As I am doing my T-5 conversion I found out that a 93 Ranger has the correct sized clutch and pressure plate. I'll send photos.
60tudor":2q8j9otg said:
Is that for the 2.3 engine in the ranger?
TxAgs66":2q8j9otg said:
Yes it is for a 93 Ranger 2.3L engine.

Hi Guys,
The 2.3l Ranger uses a 8-7/8" clutch disc and pressure plate on flat flywheel. The pre-66, small pattern blocks use an 8-1/2" (215mm) clutch disc & flywheel with a 1" step. Ranger stuff won't fit inside the small bell.
This thread is about the early "small bell" clutch disc/PP/flywheel/TO bearing assembly options, and modern interchanges for the old, now unobtainium (in good condition) three finger PPs.

Maybe somebody could start a sticky about the dual pattern blocks (66 - 80 9"), and modern clutch disc/PP/ flywheel assembly interchanges?

Rick(wrench)
 
Brand new clutches available here for the 8.5 clutch set up.

Perfection Clutch 1-800-258-8312, option 4

mu72163-1/napa<<<<<<< 63-68 falcon 170 ci L6

Talked to them today and they have the Kit in stock for around $230, dont know if thats Canadian dollars or US.
 
So i didn't notice this question being addressed but the mustang 2.3 seems to have a 216mm PP. Now will the clutch itself work without modification?
 
I just got done installing a new clutch and pressure plate in my 62 Falcon. I used a new Sachs 1986 Mercedes Benz pressure plate and a Centerforce disc for a Mustang II. I have a 200ci engine with a 4 speed from a V8 Torino. Previously I had a remanufactured three finger PP with a new disc, but I never had strong holding power from the beginning, and it just got worse as time went by. I love the new setup and don't know how I went without it for so long. Installation was no harder than it would have been replacing a stock clutch (other than having the flywheel machined). This upgrade was definately worth it. Thanks for posting the information on here. It works great.
 
Jeez... that post was from -five- years ago...

The Squire wagon is still my daily driver. Say about 65,000 miles since the Alfa plate swap, with zero problems. That's a lot of miles, I should start thinking about a new clutch!

Rick(wrench)
 
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