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Going to Dual MC

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StarDiero75
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Going to Dual MC

Post #1 by StarDiero75 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:41 pm

Howdy guys,

So for some reason all of a sudden my single res MC keeps leaking from the cap. Its 2 years old and I just replaced the cap/gasket, and it still didn't fix it. So screw it I'm going dual with a prop valve.

So here's my question, does it matter honestly if it is drum/drum or disk/drum? I'll be putting disks on eventually here but I gotta find the V8 disk spindles for it but I don't want to switch MCs again. And if I'm going to disk, am i better off just getting a brake booster too? Falcon parts sells a combo of dual MC and booster for $370 and it's tempting but if power isn't really that great, I'll skip it and just do the dual MC.

Thanks guys,
Ryan
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200 and 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), 1968 1.08 Autolite 2100 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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powerband
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Re: Going to Dual MC

Post #2 by powerband » Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:46 pm

Dual MC is an important and simple safety upgrade . The typical application (68 -74 'Stang/Mav/Com) OEM non-power MC is same but the discs' use an external proportioning valve which lowers fluid pressure to rear drums (Power MC uses different bore size) . Drum/Drum wont need a proportioning valve ,front discs will usually need OEM type proportioning valve or simple inline reducing valve on rear line.

Most MC's will bolt right in but will need original MC pushrod used for correct pedal geometry.


My 63 Falcon has Drum/Drum dual MC with no proportioning valve - stops fine with no power. The 61Comet has Disc conversion and no proportioning valve - stops fine with no power . The 74 Mav has disc swap, proportioning valve - stops really fine, right leg power only ... 8)

have fun
"Take time to stop and smell... The roadkill..."

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chad
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Going to Dual MC

Post #3 by chad » Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:40 pm

i like the Mark VIIIIIII (late 70s to mid/early 80s) MC as the bolt-to-the-fire wall pattern is the same
AND
it's a disc/drum MC
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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StarDiero75
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Re: Going to Dual MC

Post #4 by StarDiero75 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:02 pm

powerband wrote:Dual MC is an important and simple safety upgrade . The typical application (68 -74 'Stang/Mav/Com) OEM non-power MC is same but the discs' use an external proportioning valve which lowers fluid pressure to rear drums (Power MC uses different bore size) . Drum/Drum wont need a proportioning valve ,front discs will usually need OEM type proportioning valve or simple inline reducing valve on rear line.

Most MC's will bolt right in but will need original MC pushrod used for correct pedal geometry.


My 63 Falcon has Drum/Drum dual MC with no proportioning valve - stops fine with no power. The 61Comet has Disc conversion and no proportioning valve - stops fine with no power . The 74 Mav has disc swap, proportioning valve - stops really fine, right leg power only ... 8)

have fun

Yes safety is my other concern with the dual res.

So if I do switch to disks I will have to switch the MC? I do have the 66 8" with 10" brakes in the back and i plan on keeping those. I do kinda want the prop valce b/c my rear end locks up super easy being that the Ranchero has no weight in the back.

But so the 68 MC will drop right in, no issues? I wont worry about power. Just one more luxury to go wrong lol.

Thanks
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200 and 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), 1968 1.08 Autolite 2100 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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bubba22349
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Re: Going to Dual MC

Post #5 by bubba22349 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:59 pm

StarDiero75 wrote:
powerband wrote:Dual MC is an important and simple safety upgrade . The typical application (68 -74 'Stang/Mav/Com) OEM non-power MC is same but the discs' use an external proportioning valve which lowers fluid pressure to rear drums (Power MC uses different bore size) . Drum/Drum wont need a proportioning valve ,front discs will usually need OEM type proportioning valve or simple inline reducing valve on rear line.

Most MC's will bolt right in but will need original MC pushrod used for correct pedal geometry.


My 63 Falcon has Drum/Drum dual MC with no proportioning valve - stops fine with no power. The 61Comet has Disc conversion and no proportioning valve - stops fine with no power . The 74 Mav has disc swap, proportioning valve - stops really fine, right leg power only ... 8)

have fun

Yes safety is my other concern with the dual res.

So if I do switch to disks I will have to switch the MC? I do have the 66 8" with 10" brakes in the back and i plan on keeping those. I do kinda want the prop valce b/c my rear end locks up super easy being that the Ranchero has no weight in the back.

But so the 68 MC will drop right in, no issues? I wont worry about power. Just one more luxury to go wrong lol.

Thanks


Yes if you switch to disks later you will need the correct type MC to go along with it. First and biggest reason is that a Disk MC needs a larger fuild bowl volume capacity. Next the factory type Disk brake MC may also have a residual pressure valve built in in some applications, in that case it is a lower presure then the Drum brake MC so be sure to check the specs for that info too. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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Re: Going to Dual MC

Post #6 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:20 pm

For my street rods with disc/drum non-power assist I've been using a '77 F-100 MC - the last year disc/drums were offered in a non-power option.

Its inexpensive.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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StarDiero75
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Re: Going to Dual MC

Post #7 by StarDiero75 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:29 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:For my street rods with disc/drum non-power assist I've been using a '77 F-100 MC - the last year disc/drums were offered in a non-power option.

Its inexpensive.

So i actually got a 68 Falcon one. The line inputs are on the correct side and everything else looks good. It was about $50+ core, i gots to drop the core back off still.

Aren't you the guy on the jalopy journal who has the crossflow 300 l6 in a Duesenberg-ish track car????
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200 and 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), 1968 1.08 Autolite 2100 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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StarDiero75
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Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:39 pm
Location: Bremerton, WA

Re: Going to Dual MC

Post #8 by StarDiero75 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:32 pm

bubba22349 wrote:
StarDiero75 wrote:
powerband wrote:Dual MC is an important and simple safety upgrade . The typical application (68 -74 'Stang/Mav/Com) OEM non-power MC is same but the discs' use an external proportioning valve which lowers fluid pressure to rear drums (Power MC uses different bore size) . Drum/Drum wont need a proportioning valve ,front discs will usually need OEM type proportioning valve or simple inline reducing valve on rear line.

Most MC's will bolt right in but will need original MC pushrod used for correct pedal geometry.


My 63 Falcon has Drum/Drum dual MC with no proportioning valve - stops fine with no power. The 61Comet has Disc conversion and no proportioning valve - stops fine with no power . The 74 Mav has disc swap, proportioning valve - stops really fine, right leg power only ... 8)

have fun

Yes safety is my other concern with the dual res.

So if I do switch to disks I will have to switch the MC? I do have the 66 8" with 10" brakes in the back and i plan on keeping those. I do kinda want the prop valce b/c my rear end locks up super easy being that the Ranchero has no weight in the back.

But so the 68 MC will drop right in, no issues? I wont worry about power. Just one more luxury to go wrong lol.

Thanks


Yes if you switch to disks later you will need the correct type MC to go along with it. First and biggest reason is that a Disk MC needs a larger fuild bowl volume capacity. Next the factory type Disk brake MC may also have a residual pressure valve built in in some applications, in that case it is a lower presure then the Drum brake MC so be sure to check the specs for that info too. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:

So you say the residual pressure valve decreases pressure, thats not good right? That would mean that the MC was intentionally designed for a booster right? If i got one intended for manual brakes it should be fine right? I did buy a 68 Falcon one but I didn't see if it had the residual valve or not. Ill check real quick.
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200 and 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), 1968 1.08 Autolite 2100 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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StarDiero75
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Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:39 pm
Location: Bremerton, WA

Re: Going to Dual MC

Post #9 by StarDiero75 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:38 pm

bubba22349 wrote:
StarDiero75 wrote:
powerband wrote:Dual MC is an important and simple safety upgrade . The typical application (68 -74 'Stang/Mav/Com) OEM non-power MC is same but the discs' use an external proportioning valve which lowers fluid pressure to rear drums (Power MC uses different bore size) . Drum/Drum wont need a proportioning valve ,front discs will usually need OEM type proportioning valve or simple inline reducing valve on rear line.

Most MC's will bolt right in but will need original MC pushrod used for correct pedal geometry.


My 63 Falcon has Drum/Drum dual MC with no proportioning valve - stops fine with no power. The 61Comet has Disc conversion and no proportioning valve - stops fine with no power . The 74 Mav has disc swap, proportioning valve - stops really fine, right leg power only ... 8)

have fun

Yes safety is my other concern with the dual res.

So if I do switch to disks I will have to switch the MC? I do have the 66 8" with 10" brakes in the back and i plan on keeping those. I do kinda want the prop valce b/c my rear end locks up super easy being that the Ranchero has no weight in the back.

But so the 68 MC will drop right in, no issues? I wont worry about power. Just one more luxury to go wrong lol.

Thanks


Yes if you switch to disks later you will need the correct type MC to go along with it. First and biggest reason is that a Disk MC needs a larger fuild bowl volume capacity. Next the factory type Disk brake MC may also have a residual pressure valve built in in some applications, in that case it is a lower presure then the Drum brake MC so be sure to check the specs for that info too. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:

No where in the specs does it say anything about a residual pressure valve

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NMBP39495

So should i assume not?
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200 and 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), 1968 1.08 Autolite 2100 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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chad
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Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Going to Dual MC

Post #10 by chad » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:56 pm

i'm familiar w/ a RV way down the line / having no thing ta do w/a MC just like some Proportioning Valves.

Y not settel ur mind'n stop tryin to do 2 or 3 things @ once (change to 2 resourvores, may B disc/drum, may B drum/drum, etc) and just decide on & set up one system? I drive an on rd / off rd rig on steep gradients'n interstate hwys w/out power breaks, NOTHING in my break sys costs anywhere near $340 either. It's wrked 4 36 yrs w/trailors & carring (in bed) heavy loads...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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bubba22349
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Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: Going to Dual MC

Post #11 by bubba22349 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:36 pm

StarDiero75 wrote:
bubba22349 wrote:
StarDiero75 wrote:Yes safety is my other concern with the dual res.

So if I do switch to disks I will have to switch the MC? I do have the 66 8" with 10" brakes in the back and i plan on keeping those. I do kinda want the prop valce b/c my rear end locks up super easy being that the Ranchero has no weight in the back.

But so the 68 MC will drop right in, no issues? I wont worry about power. Just one more luxury to go wrong lol.

Thanks


Yes if you switch to disks later you will need the correct type MC to go along with it. First and biggest reason is that a Disk MC needs a larger fuild bowl volume capacity. Next the factory type Disk brake MC may also have a residual pressure valve built in in some applications, in that case it is a lower presure then the Drum brake MC so be sure to check the specs for that info too. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:

So you say the residual pressure valve decreases pressure, thats not good right? That would mean that the MC was intentionally designed for a booster right? If i got one intended for manual brakes it should be fine right? I did buy a 68 Falcon one but I didn't see if it had the residual valve or not. Ill check real quick.


Residual pressure valve holds a small amount of line pressure so the pads or shoe's don't retrack as far gives quicker brake reaction without pumping, the mounting hieght of MC also determines if it's even nessisary. The 68 Falcon MC application should be fine on your Ranchero so no worry's. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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StarDiero75
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Re: Going to Dual MC

Post #12 by StarDiero75 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:04 pm

chad wrote:i'm familiar w/ a RV way down the line / having no thing ta do w/a MC just like some Proportioning Valves.

Y not settel ur mind'n stop tryin to do 2 or 3 things @ once (change to 2 resourvores, may B disc/drum, may B drum/drum, etc) and just decide on & set up one system? I drive an on rd / off rd rig on steep gradients'n interstate hwys w/out power breaks, NOTHING in my break sys costs anywhere near $340 either. It's wrked 4 36 yrs w/trailors & carring (in bed) heavy loads...

Oh I've already decided on going to front disks, hence why i bought the dual res disk/drum cylinder. I got spindles, bearings, seals, calipers, 1 rotor so far. All i need now is the other rotor, tie rod sleeves for my smaller L6 tie rod to V8 spindle, I'm doing the 1" shelby drop so the template for that, and i want to go to a roller idler arm so that too. I may need a new rubber line if the caliper makes it so i csnt reuse it (the lines are 2 yrs old).

I got this pretty planned out now, i think....
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200 and 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), 1968 1.08 Autolite 2100 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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