Another Turbo 200 nears completion....

[Linc's 200]

I am in Barnaul, Siberia - a LONG way from Ukraine!

You would not believe the hot Russian women here. I thought it was all stories - - - I am a believer now. Even the women in their 40's with a few kids are still dang hot!

I'll start a thread in the lounge when I get back, with photos. Right now I am suffering for lack of sleep (jet lag, really bad)

[Linc's 200]

I got this from a fellow on the turbomustangs board, his user name is silver82GT"


"Hi Linc

I was on the net last night and saw your build up of the turbo 200-6, very
interesting and impressive! I was comparing your posted time slip to a few of my mid 12 sec ones. You were running about 7 mph faster @ the 1/8 but .6 sec slower et. Once you get the trans/launch worked out I wouldn't be surprised to see a mid 12 out of that car. Almost makes me want to pull my 393w out and try what you are doing."


It sure has been a fun project, and I get a lot of interesting comments/responses.

Time to go chase some Russian hotties.......

[wallaka]

Yeah I've been in the Republic of Georgia and can second that about the hot women (as long as my wife doesn't find out anyways).

'Course that's a long way from Siberia too. The USSR was the biggest country in the world after all.

[Linc's 200]

Wait, this is Lincs Turbo thread. Hurry back! Dont get hitched and stay there. Bring her with! Viva turbo!

1) I'm back, going to maybe play with the C4 trans a bit today as I recover from time zone changes.

2) I don't think getting married would be very hard to accomplish. I got a LOT of interest from girls as young as 18 (I am 33) which was very surprising to me.

3) The folks in Barnaul and Biysk were unbelievably fanatstic. I would actually consider living there if I could make a decent living.



OK, back to the subject material at hand.

I will try to get the trans put together this week and installed (If I find the time) Getting a good launch will be the main key in better ET times.

I'll keep y'all posted. In the meanwhile, I'm heading to the lounge to share a few experineces about my trip.

[Stubby]

Welcome home Linc. Let me know when you plan to go to the dragstrip, I just might be able to ride down.

I saw the pics and I hope you enjoyed your trip.

[Linc's 200]

Let me know when you plan to go to the dragstrip, I just might be able to ride down.

Carthage is WAY out there, past Henderson. Long Drive.

Better wait until I het a few bugs out before coming over!
I'll let you know...

[Stubby]

If you are racing at Temple, I love that track. It gives you a tunnel view feeling at the starting line. I would love to load my son up and come down when you get the bugs worked out.

[Linc's 200]

If you are racing at Temple,

My car won't pass IHRA tech inspection.

[Linc's 200]

WHEW!!! C-4 trans goes together tomorrow night.....standby for a thrash job trying to get it in and running by Sat night!!

[Stubby]

Waiting patiently ARE WE THERE YET?? HEY HEY ARE WE THERE YET?

[Funky Cricket]

C4!

so. started yet, is it in yet.. it's friday... need updates!!! hehehe.

[Howard]

Can't wait to see what the high stall doe's for you! Good luck !

[Linc's 200]

Can't wait to see what the high stall doe's for you! Good luck !

One guy at work says the new trans and converter will be good for one whole second over the worn out piece of junk in there now.... 12's here we come!

[Howard]

Holy Crap Batman !!

[Linc's 200]

Man, I just wish I had more trime to do everything I would like to do in my life.

The crappy C5 is out, and the C4 is in. The shifter linkage is completely different between the two, so I am patiently waiting for my B&M Starshifter to arrive. I also have to do some mods to the cooling lines since a C5 and C4 use different line connections.

My friend Ryan came over yesterday as I was finishing up the C4 build. He had never had the chance to see the car in person. I started it up and let it warm up a bit, then romped the gas a few times. I was thinking: "Man, does this thing rev slow!" It seemed like it took one full second to go from idle to 4000 RPM.

I think I know why - the stock C5 lock-up converter must weight 80 POUNDS!!!
IT IS HEAVY!!
It took both arms to pick it up and move it inside the garage. I should probably just add it to the scrap pile. The 10" converter, on the other hand, weighs maybe 15 pounds. HUGE difference.

I had to do the trans swap by myself. You aren't a real man until you balance a transmission on a small floor jack with one hand and start bolts with the other hand!


I tried to use this guide:

http://fordsix.com/tech/engine/bigbell.php

...to modify the bellhousing to fit the 200 block, but there isn't enough meat in the edge of the bell I had to do that with. I would have to weld extra metal on then machine it down.
Forget it, 4 - 7/16" bolts is plenty to hold the trans to the engine.

well, keep your fingers crossed for me that this trans and converter will work!!

[XFlow_Fairlane]

Forget it, 4 - 7/16" bolts is plenty to hold the trans to the engine.

ah in a couple weeks when you puke the trans on the track I bet you will change your mind

the small bell 200 only has 4 bolts holding the bell on it..

[Linc's 200]

the small bell 200 only has 4 bolts holding the bell on it..

I thought it was five until ?? year then changed to six?

I doesn't matter, all the weight between the engine mounts and rear trans mount (weight downward in the middle) pulls on the bottom bolts and pushes the top together, so I'll be fine.

[Linc's 200]

1) half on my chest to balance it to the bolt holes. When I breathed, it would align more properly. Hilarious ghetto mechanic tactics.

2) T5....why havent you considered that?

3) Whats your differential in the rear? Just curious, IMO 4:10's or higher would make that sucker move, and less boiling of the tires out of the hole. Tune her up so she redlines in the last gear at the end of the 1/4.

1) That is exactly how I do the TREMEC 3550 in my 5.0 Ranger!!
All 130 lbs worth

2) F the T-5, I can't find one that hasn't been torn up.
I have another TREMEC 3550 as a spare I can use, it is good for 600+ HP!

3) I have 3.73's in a 8.8" Trac-Loc rear. Tires would boil MORE with 4.10's.
I am almost already at redline at the end of the 1/4 with 3.73's and 27" tires.

As I get faster at the near end I'll be sure to reach redline by the far end.

[Linc's 200]

Don't need a T-5, the car will be faster through the 1/4 as an automatic.

When (If) I do a turbo street car, it will be manual trans.
I like to "row my own" on the street
.....and hear the BOV go "PSSSSHHHHTTT" between gears on boost!!

[Linc's 200]

WHOOHOO! The trans and converter works - big difference!! (I am actually surprised - I never rebuilt a C4 before)

Actually, I didn't get to shift into third since my little "test road" isn't very long, and I needed to get back to the house quick before the cops showed up (I was running with the first section of down pipe only It is about 20" long - LOUD!!)

I started it up - - - made sure it was pumping fluid, shifted into first and reverse - both worked well - - looked it over again - - closed the hood and went for a little test drive. The converter is pretty tight behind a little 200 - maybe only stalls to 2500 but still helps it move mucho bueno.

Tomorrow after work, I will install the rest of the downpipe (much quieter!!) and do a little more test-n-tune before loading it onto the trailer to get ready for Saturday night!!

[Does10s]

Linc's,
Now go for the 12's!
Will

[XFlow_Fairlane]

sweet!!! is it just a downright turbofest going on around here now!!!

[Funky Cricket]

sweet. NOW HIT THE TRACK! hee hee..

anyway, congrats on the rebuild, can't wait to see what times you run.

[Linc's 200]

OK, a little "test-n-tune" today, but not time for too much..

I don't have enough foot brake to bring this thing to full stall.
I can pull the e-brake handle and stand on the brakes, and get it to 5 psi boost around 2800 RPM....

I practiced a few launches - I can foot brake to 1700 RPM and let off the brakes and stab the throttle and I am at 3000 RPM and boosting within 20 feet!!

If I had a transbrake like Will and Kelly (does10s) this thing would REALLY launch. For now I'll try it like it is and see what happens.

[Does10s]

Hey Linc's,
Kelly doesn't have a transbrake. It's just a manual valvebody.
She pushes the brake as hard as she can and leaves at 2500rpm. She does have a two step so she's able to plant the accelerator pedal and hold the brake.
I'm actually going to lower the launch RPM a bit because 2500rpm is her max. torque according to the one dyno pull we did.
The reason we're currently at 2500rpm is she can't hold the car back at anything greater!
And you're exactly right. She's shows around 5psi on the starting line!
Later,
Will

[Linc's 200]

Kelly doesn't have a transbrake.

My bad.

Would be fun if we had 'em, though.


I don't have enough brake to hold at 2500 without the e-brake on.....but it seems if I try to adjust the wheel adjusters tighter in the rear, then they DRAG. Bummer. Maybe the master cylinder is junk.

[Linc's 200]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY HAPPY BIRTHDAYHAPPY BIRTHDAY

Thank you!

I was doing some test and tune again yesterday,
If I advance the timing a little more I can get a stronger launch, but get detonation later. The stock distributor still has all the advance weights the way it left the factory, so today I am going to get inside and put some limits on the amount of centrifugal advance so I can add more initial advance.

so after that, this engine would be version what ? 1.2 or 1.3 or 1.4 or so ? I forgot, but it is still basicly a stock engine.

Also I am getting some interesting clunks from the rear suspension, so I am going to crawl under and see what is happening there. Then that's about it. I should be ready to head to the track.

OH yeah, one other mod - - - I removed the passenger side head lights and ran a piece of aluminum clothes dryer duct from the front of the grill (where the headlights were) to straight to the compressor inlet. A guy on turbomustangs ( dave @majestic ) picked up 40 HP by getting rid of the "cone filter" on the turbo inlet and running a piece of this duct to the front og the car (while on a chassis dyno) also, he had twins on it.

All in all, the car feels great, is running well (but LOTS of BLOWBY!) and shifts great. I would have put in new rings while I had it apart but no parts houses in town had std 200 rings in stock. So in went the old ones again.

I am thinking big changes for a winter project (new engine).

I have :

1) Forged pistons

2) These rods:


3) Ported head

4) direct mount 2 bbl

5) FSPP cam, 214*/214* @ .050"

6) also try to make a new exhaust turbo header,

then sell the log manifold and holley 1 bbl with hat.

I ekpt waiting for the current engine to go boom, but it never happened. Broke two pistons, but even that wasn't a huge failure, as it didn't damage anything else.

I am curious to see how much stronger a newer, fresher engine with more mods will be.

I am also thinking I will just go ahead and swap the new engine into the black '82 I have. I can leave this car (silver '84) a runner until that one is ready for the intercooler and other pieces that need to be carried over from this car.

[Linc's 200]

I would only have it connected at the strip, obviously.

That's the way it will be.

[Linc's 200]

Ill guess your birthday present is 12.7

I wish it would have happened.....

Best I got was a 13.58 at 102.5



I did not DARE to do "neutral slams" on my new transmission, so I foot braked it to 1700 (most I can hold with just the foot brake) and stabbed the gas when the light changed, Still suffering from bad 60 foot times, this one was 2.37

I was out of the gate, and it built boost and was GONE!! This run was feeling FAST!!
Shifting at 5500, I was in second gear in no time, and it semed like just a second or two later, 5500 was here again, so I shifted into 3rd.


It pulled really hard back to 5500 - - - - - and just stayed there. No climb, no fall. 5500 RPM for probably the last 4 seconds of the run!!!!

I still squeezed a 8.90 in the 1/8th at 85.45, and a 13.57 at 102.56

I am remembering what silver82GT said:

I was comparing your posted time slip to a few of my mid 12 sec ones. You were running about 7 mph faster @ the 1/8 but .6 sec slower et. Once you get the trans/launch worked out I wouldn't be surprised to see a mid 12 out of that car.

So........NOW I ahve some more problems to work out!!
The engine is using oil - - BAD!!!
The smoke is horrendous, and it used a quart of oil in THREE 1/4 mile RUNS!!!!
That's terrible!!

That is leading to some bad pinging I am getting - - I can't make it go away, even if I turn it down to 8-10 psi. The oil problem is going to hurt me permanently until that is fixed.

I need to take a poll:


TELL ME IF I SHOULD:

1) Fix the engine again, using good available stock parts.
"You still haven't got it to it's max potential!"

2) "Forget it - You are beating a dead horse....
It's time for a whole new new package!"


My friend Joe thinks I am needing to fix the engine and keep it stock to find out what is still left in it. I am undecided.

Later....
Linc

[Linc's 200]

5500 RPM for probably the last 4 seconds of the run!!!!

I forgot to add to this a little more......

I am hitting a wall, there. I don't know if it is turbo related, or due to my single 1.125" venturi!!!!!!

Now that I have a trans that will shift better, I can take it up in the RPM range, but 5500 is all she wrote. It gets there quick and stays there.

I am beginning to think that this is as far as this combo will go. I have a few more tricks up my sleeve, (like a 50 shot of nitrous off of the line to get my 60' times down to a more palatable level !!!) and that just might net me a 12.99......

I'll think things over and see if I can come up with some other ideas ..... shy of swapping a 2 bbl carb on. I am thinking once that happens, this thing will be able to breath, and then it will REALLY fly!

The reaction of people to my car at the track is INSANE! People can't BELIEVE it is a 200 cube, 3.3 liter straight six!
It is so crazy!!
One dude with a nice, newwer model silver Trans Am was running 13.6's and he was SO PISSED when he found out I am faster than him!! (we didn't run together, just from visiting) I told him I only have around $1000 total in my car, with a bone stock engine and a John Deere tractor turbo. That made him even more mad.

Some guy with a MASSIVELY tubbed out El Camino blew up his engine doing his burnout. My friend Joe was standing next to me and said:
"That's why we don't play with big blocks"
HAHAHA!!!!

[XFlow_Fairlane]

I think you are already close to the limit of the stock engine. if you weren't they would be lasting longer than one or two trips to the strip. it would be interesting to see what holes are letting go this time (1 and 6 maybe?) maybe it is time for a little cam in that motor? I know the stocker doesn't have much at all up top..

[addo]

Good stuff. What was the boost pressure doing at 5500? If your venturi was the limiting factor, mightn't it build pressure up to where the BOV was open more?

The oil might have been quenching things a little too!

[Linc's 200]

I have two boost gauges, one before the venturi (in the hat) and one after (manifold) I didn't get the chance to see what each was doing.

[Linc's 200]

I think you are already close to the limit of the stock engine. if you weren't they would be lasting longer than one or two trips to the strip.

It is still 100% all stock, high mileage.
I didn't even change the rings when I had it apart!

[rust collector]

How about a set of new valvesprings?

[Linc's 200]

How about a set of new valvesprings?

That is not the problem.

There are NO SYMPTOMS WHATSOEVER that would indicate I have a problem with the springs.

It just feels like it runs out of air, that's all.

Runs clean and smooth and just pulls along at that RPM (RPM's are increasing slightly, but not very fast....).

It's acting like the cam or carb is way too small or something, the power just stops right there.

[Linc's 200]

Youre leaning out @5500, especially with the rate of air coming in, and the lack of fuel the 1bbl can keep for the fuel ratio to keep up with the demand of the engine.

No, the A/F ratio meter was showing it was OK,

It just feels like it runs out of air flow ability, that's all.

Runs clean and smooth and just pulls along at that RPM (RPM's are increasing slightly, but not very fast....).

It's acting like the cam or carb is way too small or something, the power just stops right there.

Guides and seals are fried, rings are worn out.

Got that right.
If you let it idle for 30 seconds there is a huge cloud of blue smoke when you give it gas!

I don't think the rings can't "Handle" boost, other engines can without problems. They are just really worn. Maybe some piston damage, too.




Here is an idea, let me toss it out there.....

I am thinking of building my new engine,
all fresh,

but stock head, stock cam, etc. and same exhaust log and 1 bbl carb.

I mean, I STARTED with a 150,000 mile engine to begin with!!

Wouldn't a FRESH engine have more power with the same combo???

I think I am going to try that!

[Linc's 200]

I think you are already close to the limit of the stock engine. if you weren't they would be lasting longer than one or two trips to the strip.

Your point would only be valid if I was bringing new engines to the strip.

There is nothing at all new about ANYTHING inside the engine I run!!!!!! (OK, I did change the timing chain....)

[Howard]

Glad you made it to the track !

The first thing I noticed is that you peaked at 5500 and still had room at the end of your run. I hope the tranny wasn't slipping. You are gonna need more rpm or shorter gears to pick up speed. If you are looking at 1/4 mile only, you max out at peak HP and rpm at the line.

I've read that the stock bottom end is good for 7000 rpm. Is that what you are shooting for? From a system standpoint isn't that related to the cam? I can easily see the stock cam pooping out at 5000.

I think you should pop for an A/F gauge and sensor.

The pinging and oil burning sound bad. But it IS running, and hard !!

I can't tell you guy's how much this impresses me. I went to the Street Machine Nationals, and a local show with a little over 400 cars.
99.9% cookie cutter V8's

This whole high end I6 stuff is like watching a F1 team design a motor!!

You're of two minds. Here's 2 cents.

1. Build a new stock motor, but build it right.

Blueprint (I hate that term) it. Fit your rings, balance your rotating assembly, cc your chambers. get everything as right as it can be.

2. Move up one notch.

Build a stock bottom end, ditto above. Use your new rods with stock pistons, but get a cam !!

A/F is my big worry. I see the carb as the weak link in this whole picture. You just can't really tell what is happening unless something blows up.

[Howard]

Sorry, last post I read was about the valve springs.