Idiot's guide to turbocharging the falcon 6

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Bort62
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Idiot's guide to turbocharging the falcon 6

Post #1 by Bort62 » Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:51 pm


Bort62
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Post #2 by Bort62 » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:02 pm

Pictures will follow shortly...

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michael_cini
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Post #3 by michael_cini » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:45 pm

Wow, really nice of you to go into so much detail. Perhaps I will attemp this when I learn to weld :wink:
63 futura convertible sport coupe,
250 I6/C4, OZ head (milled, oversized valves), Holley 350cfm carb, 264/274-110 cam, 6 into 1 header, 2.5 exhaust with dynomax super turbo muffler, granada disc brakes, 5 bolt 8" rear.

BTW, it's pronounced Chee-knee.

Linc's 200

Re: Idiot's guide to turbocharging the falcon 6

Post #4 by Linc's 200 » Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:34 pm

Just to help clarify a few things:

Bort62 wrote:1) MIG will work, but looks like ass and is a lot more cumbersome.

2) Any T3 with a ~ .6 exhaust AR is a good start. Remember, you don't have to have the PERFECT turbo to make this worth it. Anything that is reasonably close will yield huge gains over natural aspiration, and be well worth it. I would suggest that, when doing this for the first time, get something close and go with it.

3) I also had to drill my stock YF jet out to .115. I don’t have any wideband feedback on that yet, but it runs well. The general thing to remember is that you are going to have to add a lot more fuel to make it run right under boost.

4) make some sort of J-pipe. While a J-pipe in any form isn’t the most elegant solution, it is strait forward and works well.

5) Put an O2 bung in the down pipe so you can run a wideband.

6) Referencing your waste gate to the same place as your boost gauge is a good way to make sure you don’t have any problems with this.

7) You could just blow it off into the atmosphere, but since there is oil vapor in these gases, it will make a mess.

8 ) BOV: You need a blow off valve, if you don’t have one, you will break your turbo shaft.

9) Check your plugs – make sure they are brown… too rich is much better than too lean. Using a wideband O2 is invaluable here.


1) I wouldn't be too quick to knock MIG welders. With .020" wire and Argon gas, I can do welds that are nearly as nice as TIG. A side note on TIG welders: They are expensive. The DC only ones are a little more affordable but can't do aluminum.

2) There are too many T3 turbos out there to use a blanket statement like this. The little ones used on Chrysler 2.2 liter engines are too small for a 2.2, MUCH less a 3.3 liter engine. On the contrary, the 2.3 liter Ford and Volvo turbos have good potential. Just don't be afraid to ask for help in choosing if you aren't sure.

3) Don't add all the supplemental fuel with the main jet, or you will be far too rich under cruising conditions. Most of the additional fuel should come from the power valve circuit.

4) Be very careful with the wall thickness of the pipe you use. Get a caliper and familiarize yourself with what different pipe looks like with different wall thicknesses. Thick is good and durable, and easier to weld. Thin exhaust pipe is prone to premature failure and will cause a lot of headaches later.

5) Read the instructions that come with the wideband kit. Most will say the sensor should be at least 24" downstream from the turbo, even a little farther away is better. A wideband O2 sensor is nowhere near the same kind of creature as a narrow-band sensor. Widebands don't like heat or pressure and will die sooner from each.

6) Boost/Vac gauge comes from the intake manifold, the wastegate gets its signal from the carb hat.

7) A good engine won't have any oil mist coming from the breather, and the breather baffle should separate oil from air. The "vapors" are of little consequence. If you have bad blow-by, you have other issues that need to be addressed.

8 ) You don't really "need" a blow-off valve, but they are nice to have. I have heard the general rule of thumb is 10+ psi needs one, below that it isn't necessary.

9) There are articles-a-plenty on the web how to PROPERLY read spark plugs. "Brown" on unleaded modern-day, re-formulated gas is WAY more rich than it should be. The ONLY real way to properly read a plug is to shut it down at the end of a 1/4 mile run and look deep inside the steel shell with a lighted magnifying glass. Looking at the porcelain center will tell you nothing useful.

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Post #5 by Bort62 » Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:06 pm

Thanks Linc,

However, I will disagree with you on a few points.

1.) MIG vs. TIG is just a personal choice. A lot of the stuff that you end up doing (like welding the advance plate) would be very hard w/ MIG just because of the lack of control.

3.) Several carbs, Including the YF, do not have a power valve. (unless I am blind/mistaken)

6.) You can reference the WG anywhere you like, but if you set the WG for 5 psi, and you want the motor to run @ 5 psi, then reference it to the intake manifold. Putting it anywhere else will cause it to be off by whatever boost loss you have between that point and the intake.

5psi wastegate - 1 psi boost drop through carb venturi = wastegate opening @ 4 psi.

7.) My stock 200 VC does not have a baffle on the front vent, and as a result you will get oil vapor. Some blowby is normal, as the PCV valve is held shut by boost (and would be sucking in a NA application).

8.) Compressor stall is very bad for impeller blades. Even @ low boost pressures, running without a BOV will make a horrible noise if nothing else. Been there, done that - they are cheap.

9.) IMO reading spark plugs is only a ballpark way to double check yourself, I had a lean problem and the ash-grey spark plugs only confirmed what I suspected from other symptoms. If I had pulled them out and they were brown, I would have second-guessed myself.

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Post #6 by yodabiri » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:24 pm

This is alot of really good info! This should be made into a sticky! Just my opinion though.
65 mustang coupe with a 250 (DUI) and a t5 with a 7.25 rear end (soon to be 8.8 ).

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Post #7 by XPC66 » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:53 pm

My two cents worth:

you shouldn't be running a power valve with turbo application;

stall flutter damage is highly over rated and a mantra of those looking for an excuse to explain a damaged compressor wheel. A bov is environmentally unfriendly and wastes contaminated cooled air that would be better sent back to the compressor, via a recirculating valve.

In stall condition pumping has stopped because of flow separation from the blade contours, the turbine is already slowing down because exhaust flow has dropped. The buffetting of the impellor is minor and the shaft piston is absorbing the torque peturbations. Putting a recirculating valve on will tend to keep the air bound to the blades and thus reduce some lag when the TB snaps open again.

I don't advocate any sought of relief, because it sets up a flutter condition that hammers the blades as it's diaphragm bang bangs.

The PCV valve might be negated because of the inline check, but sure as sheit there will be blow by on the rings that will be making it's way back to the turbo intake via the make up hose.

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Post #8 by blueroo » Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:37 pm

Ian, if you don't mind me asking, roughly what did you spend on the parts to do the turbo?
CAR:1964 Ford Fairlane 500 aka "Misty Blue"

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Post #9 by Bort62 » Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:12 pm

blueroo wrote:Ian, if you don't mind me asking, roughly what did you spend on the parts to do the turbo?


I don't have an exact number, because I had to replace a lot of other things non-turbo related at the same time.

But if I had to guess, strictly turbo-related parts were less than 500$.

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Post #10 by falcon fanatic » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:09 pm

What happened to "pictures will follow shortly" :wink:
'63 Futura Convertible. Disc/drum, Bilsteins, beefy swaybars, #480 springs, roller or spherical everything up front, HD shackles on stock springs out back. Megasquirt FI on ported, big valve aussie head w/ roller rockers; 10:1 6000rpm engine; 264/274-12*; C-4, Maverick 8" 3.25 W/trac-lok and perimeter frame inside the unibody. More to come...
http://falconfanatic.blogspot.com/

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Post #11 by Bort62 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:59 pm

falcon fanatic wrote:What happened to "pictures will follow shortly" :wink:


The beach ate my camera.

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Post #12 by falcon fanatic » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:49 pm

Ah, a common problem...
'63 Futura Convertible. Disc/drum, Bilsteins, beefy swaybars, #480 springs, roller or spherical everything up front, HD shackles on stock springs out back. Megasquirt FI on ported, big valve aussie head w/ roller rockers; 10:1 6000rpm engine; 264/274-12*; C-4, Maverick 8" 3.25 W/trac-lok and perimeter frame inside the unibody. More to come...
http://falconfanatic.blogspot.com/

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Re: Idiot's guide to turbocharging the falcon 6

Post #13 by montego » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:47 pm

[quote="Linc's 200"] e]


2) There are too many T3 turbos out there to use a blanket statement like this. The little ones used on Chrysler 2.2 liter engines are too small for a 2.2, MUCH less a 3.3 liter engine. On the contrary, the 2.3 liter Ford and Volvo turbos have good potential. Just don't be afraid to ask for help in choosing if you aren't sure.

Hi guys, seeing how i'm a noob here, i do not mean anything meanspirited or malicious by this post.
as far as the chrysler turbos go, there is very little difference between the T-3 on a turbocoupe and the T-3 on my '86 lebaron. they are both .48AR on the hot side, and the compressor side is the same.
where you want to be careful is the '88 and up "T1" engine (non intercooled 2.2 and all 2.5s)
these have a mitsubishi turbo on them which is tiny compared to the garrett.
the difference between the mopar and ford garrett turbos is that mopar uses a funny mounting flange pattern, where the ford an volvo use the standard pattern.
not a big deal, it's just one bolt spaced closer to the center than the others.
and on the '84-87 turbos, the throttle body is bolted to the compressor inlet, so if you use one of these you'll have to fab an adaptor so you have something to clamp a hose onto.

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Post #14 by Anlushac11 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:59 am

8)


I think what Linc meant was that most early (1983-1985?) 2.3L used a .48 turbine and a .60 compressor. Those are considered on the small side for a 2.3L

The 1985 SVO Mustang and most Turbo Coupes used a .63 turbine and a .60 compressor. Those work fine. A log head 200 flows about the same as a 2.3L anyways, both had sucky head flow.

Either 87 and 88 or just 88 Turbo Coupe used a IHI turbo which is considered too small for a 2.3L

Im just guessing but a Chrysler T3 would probably work on a stock 3.3L and running less than 7.5lbs boost since motor wont be able to run much past 4500rpm anyways.

But then again thats not very much boost to run for all that work and money invested. Horsepower increase wouldnt be much, maybe 40-50hp?

I have a 1983 Turbo Coupe T3 and it is stamped .48 A/R on it.

I have been looking at either a .60/.63 T3 or a .48/.60 TO4B/E to run on mine but I have a ported and polished head to put on it.

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Post #15 by montego » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:51 pm

ok, that makes sense. the t-3 in my lebaron is a .48 turbine and a .60 compressor. but with a 2.2, a .63 housing will generate some lag issues
unless you have a ported head.
the big difference is that the 2.3 head flows better than the 2.2 head.
when chrysler went to the mitsubishi turbo, they did it to decrease lag.
it's got a tiny turbine side compared to the garrett.

I'm really thinking of building a 300 with twin turbos for a street rod down the road, and while 1 t-3 would be way too small, i think 2 would do ok

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Re: Idiot's guide to turbocharging the falcon 6

Post #16 by JGTurbo » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:45 pm


Bort62
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Re: Idiot's guide to turbocharging the falcon 6

Post #17 by Bort62 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:30 pm

218224turbo wrote:
Just thought I should clear up the carb hat size. A larger diameter carb hat will not put more stress on the carb stud. The area of the carburator is the only place where the pressure can act to put stress on the carb stud. The area of the carburetor doesn't change. Sure, there is more area in a bigger carb hat, but the extra area ends up being internal stresses in the hat itself and the force against the stud remains the area of the carburetor times the pressure of the boost.



Eh, you're correct. I miss-spoke when writing that apparently.

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Post #18 by JGTurbo » Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:59 am

All in all an excellent guide though. I'm sure this has helped a lot of people out. Keep up the good work!

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Re: Idiot's guide to turbocharging the falcon 6

Post #19 by woody88 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:15 am

Very nice, I thank you sir for this will be referenced quite a bit as i start to gather my parts/materials for my build.

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Re: Idiot's guide to turbocharging the falcon 6

Post #20 by JOSH1966200 » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:38 pm

i really need a turbo header and i dont have the stuff to make one is any one interested in makeing me one for some cash :help:
66 mustang coupe 200 punched 30 over headers autocraft 2100 front disks 4 speed and a 8 inch posi 4:11
80 mustang hatchback 200 t5 5 speed and 2:80 gears 51 mpg highway
82 f100 swb 300 c6 9 inch rear 3:50 gears
62 ranchero 170 2:77 3 speed 6.5 rear 3:90 gears top speed is 1/2 the speed of smell

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Re: Idiot's guide to turbocharging the falcon 6

Post #21 by john-dickjr » Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:16 pm

how about some pictures
getting it done with 6 what it takes you to do with 8

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Re: Idiot's guide to turbocharging the falcon 6

Post #22 by Codfish777 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:08 am

I'm a knewb here. But have turbo'ed and supercharged miata's for 9 years. I'm very familar with programing and setups. But I'm just now learning carbs. Not to trying to be a know it all.

But every system should have a BOV, It increases the life of your turbo.

If possible, all systems should run some sort of device to pull timing while in boost. I am going to use a MSD BTM.
At very least have Methenol/H2O injection. If not you are wasting ALOT OF POWER.

Although spark plugs can be read....It is a terrible way to check for proper fueling. If you go lean...Boom, your pistons are gone. ALL SYSTEMS SHOULD HAVE A WIDE BAND O2.

I have really enjoyed reading this section. You guys have been really helpful.
THANKS

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Re: Idiot's guide to turbocharging the falcon 6

Post #23 by AngryEyes » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:25 pm

Im not trying to be a know it all either, I love this post and actually have it saved to my computer, but being able to weld well isn't strictly a necessity so far. I did the 2 bbl Conversion using brazing... purchased a WG flange that would bolt right to my turbo... had a BOV flange built right into my intercooler. BAsically it's looking like Il only need to do about three welds. Two being simple, weld a flange to a pipe, and one being, weld some pipe to pipe. My dizzy arm mod, I used some Epoxy and filed, looks fine and should work fine.

Just in case people are discouraged by the necessity to weld, it's basically all simple if you make it, If i was dead set against buying a welder I could have paid a shop about 100$ to do the REQUIRED welds for me :P

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