Another Turbo 200 nears completion....

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66Sprint6":3uux6hgd said:
OK, dumb question, but what does a torque plate do?
Matt

A torque plate is a thick metal plate that gets bolted to the top of the block. It has large holes where the cylinders are where you can run the boring bar down and/or cylinder hone through.

As stiff as a block is, the cylinder walls distort when the head is bolted down. The torque plate is like a "fake" cylinder head, that when bolted to the top of the block, will make sure that all machine work is done with a simulated cylinder head in place.

That way, the cylinders have been machined in their "properly distorted" place. When you pull the torque plate off, they will ditort a bit, but when the head is bolted on the engine, ready to run, thre cylinders are pulled back to twhere they were when getting machined with the torque plate in place.
 
Ahhhh... so its used for the boring process itself! Thanks for clearing that up, I like learnin new stuff
Matt
 
drag-200stang":1lmqgolz said:
1) As you fab up different induction set ups......... They need to be together to crash and burn efficiently.

2) Is there some kind of formula for figuring out what the right proportion of carb cfm to engine size is for blow through?

3) I would think if an engine was responsive and ran well NA with a certain size carb and a turbo was added it would be OK.

4) I wouldn't worry about your rods until you cam it up.

5) Your new cam under boost should have about 300 rpm higher usable rev range than what's advertised NA, if everything else is in order.

Hi Jim,

1) I'm using 100LL AvGas as a fuel, and that stuff vaporizes INSTANTANEOUSLY, especially with as much heat as there is in that intake log. I don't think there are any fuel droplets anywhere in the intake as it runs. I can be wrong, but AvGas isn't anyhting like car gas.

2) Formula?? The only guys running 750 carbs on 350ish cube motors are running over 1000 HP., and those carbs are super well prepped by specialty shops for about $800. I figure if a 350 chevy with a stock re-jetted 650 DP Holley can run 8's in the quarter, then my 200 won't ever need anything larger than about 250-300-350 cfm. I am going to try a 1.08 motorcraft 2 bbl and probably also a 1.21 motorcraft 2 bbl. I already have both. According to info from here, a 1.21 is about the same as a Holley 350.

3) The carb set-up running OK on a N/A car, if a little too large, will get super crazy over 8-10 psi.

It has something to do with the pressure drop through the venturis.....or lack of it.

I think it is like this: If the carb is too large, boost builds up in the intake, and above the carb, and even though pressure is high, flow through the venturis is (relatively) low. High pressure but low flow and the metering goes away at the venturi.

One guy (actually running a chevy, lots of them on turbomustangs) on the turbo mustangs board was trying to get (I.I.R.C....) a Holley 850 HP series carb that ran great on his N/A 350 to run under boost. He didn't have the $$$$$ to buy a new carb, so he was trying to use the one he already had.

He kept going WAAAY lean under boost, even with the largest jets in it that Holley makes (I think 120's).

The way he fixed it was to have it sent off to....I think CSU? carb shop, and they installed custom downleg annular venturis that were VERY thick, and brought the CFM's down to around 700. That fixed the problem.

I think it also helps to have more consistent metering when the pressure drop through the venturi is very high.....it makes a lot of suction between the venturi and the float bowl. That extra suction helps cover up any flow inadequacies in the metering circuit.

The venturi in my 1 bbl is I think 1-1/8" at the smallest point. I think I can honestly run a 12.99......through a single 1-1/8" venturi!!

I know I need to re-jet a little higher...N/A cars like to run about 12:1 fuel mixture while turbo cars are supposed to be 11.5:1 - down to around 11:1

I was running like 12.1:1 - 12.2:1 on that run......just a bit lean. That didn't help with the detonation either!! I plan to make up for that with alcohol injection, though.


One other thing while on this topic.....a lot of guys use very small "precision piano wire" to partially block the air bleeds. This trick is only needed on some cars and/or set-ups. If you run into a condition where the car wants to lean out at high boost, partially blocking the main air bleeds with a very tiny piece of wire will helpp richen the fuel mixture. You can also drill and tap the air bleeds to accept really TINY jets. In the past, I have cleaned the brass air bleed (or main jet) well, soldered shut, and drilled to the size I wanted. It kind of redneck way to do it, but it works.

4) I have heard the cast rods in post - '74 engines are pretty weak compared to the forged ones. What makes you think I shouldn't be too worried? because I am keeping the RPM's low right now?

5) Interesting thing about raising the RPM range about 300 RPM.
That sounds about right. I have heard that a cam will still dictate the RPM power range of the engine, whether N/A or boosted, it won't change very much.
 
Update:

I'm trying to get it back together. I found two pistons with broken ring lands. The engine is back in the car and needs to get the peripherals hooked up. Then it will be time to try to overboost it again, but I will be adding alchol injection, for sure.
 
I haven't been around the board much since the body of my 80 capri went away and i had to let her go (still running though the last time I saw it the drivers door was wired onto it.. *sigh* I just should have yanked the drivetrain and put it in another car) but this has to be one of the greasted threads in car forum history.

you are updating regulary with success and failure. trying unique ideas and doing it all by hand and ingenuity. must say, i just wasted a good hour a work (opps.. hope no one noticed) ready this thread and can't wait to read more. hope you can get out there a few more times before the weather goes away.

I miss the inlines and have been lurking for a bit but felt that this was worthy of my posting.

GOOD JOB! keep it up. we are all interested in the potential of one of fords most under rated engines.
 
Funky Cricket":6lqk8ktb said:
this has to be one of the greasted threads in car forum history.

you are updating regulary with success and failure. trying unique ideas and doing it all by hand and ingenuity.

GOOD JOB! keep it up.

THANKS Cricket. I know I am bound to make a few mistakes and break some parts along the way.
It's all good, though - - I am learning a lot and having a LOT of fun with it!!

I have noticed some of the guys saying "It will never work" have been pretty quiet lately. I just wish I had more time to mess with it. I went into this knowing I was DEFINITELY going to break some stuff, but so far it has held together a lot better than I thought it ever would have.

I might get the chance to take it to the track one more time (maybe twice??) before I leave Sept 19th to head to Siberia for two weeks.

Teppo (80stang) from Finland sent me this in a PM:

80Stang":6lqk8ktb said:
Linc, you had a lot of power in your engine and good traction. We had our track & drag weekend on Sat/Sun, and you had to have had a pretty tweaked bent 8 to drive 13.87.

Compare to this: I got 17.3 @ 122kmh @ dynoed 152hp on the flywheel. You've got some 250+...

That might be close.
It is hard to say until I get a good, hard CLEAN run.

The fact that I am over 200 HP with a 1 bbl carb gives me a warm fuzzy inside ;)

I'lll have to make 250 HP to the rear wheels / 300 Flywheel to make a 12.99 happen. I think I can do it. I wonder if the stock "cast" rods will handle it.

I went into this thinking I don't care if I blow it up, but now I do care!
I am having too much fun!

At least I have plenty of engines.........Word of mouth of my car has been spreading around the central Texas area like wildfire, and I have found a whole bunch of folks willing to "donate their 200 sixes to the cause"!
I think I am up to six engines available now, including the ones I started out with.
 
62fairlane170":1boqsob3 said:
but the faster you get, the less engines you will have on hand :p !!

I know, I never thought engine #1 would have made it this far, but it has.

It is nice, because it has let me do a lot of testing and tuning before it gave up the ghost. Only damage was a few cracked piston ring lands on two slugs. The only other thing I replaced was the SUPER slack timing chain... everything else is going back together exactly like it was before (oh yeah, plus head studs).
 
I'm not done pushing the stock piston/ stock rod/ stock head/ stock carb/ stock cam/ stock exhaust manifold combo just yet.
 
the great thing is you are doing alot of foot work for someone that might want to use the stock engine, and just add the turbo.

its not hard to find a t3/t4 on ebay for 200 or so bucks, get the rebuilt kit for it, and mock up the turbo assembly your self, and you have a "fairly" cheap engine that is tough as nails that can hang with a 302 at half the weight. not bad.. not bad at all...
 
Funky Cricket":1qa2fnh1 said:
the great thing is... you have a "fairly" cheap engine that is tough as nails that can hang with a 302 at half the weight. not bad.. not bad at all...

Yeah, and there are a whole lot of 302's that can just barely run 15's that would be in for a surprise........

I don't like to pick on other muscle car drivers,

I like to go hunting for rice!



Once I get the tune set up a bit, "Engine version 2.0" will probably end up in my nicer '82 car and the '84 in the video will be set out to pasture.
 
I've been using regular fuel injectors for my water/methanol setup it works pretty slick, no piddling with soleniod shut offs and crap like that, just get a high pressure pump some line and a/some hobbs pressure switchs if you want to make a staged setup and you have a pretty simple deal.
It really makes a huge difference in intake temperatures.
 
1) I'll be spraying 91% Isopropyl from Wal-mart

2) I have 2 stainless honeywell solenoids, plus some Toyota "cold start" injectors, for a total of five possible stages. But, I need more boost switches. I'll just be one or two stages for now.

3) I have a Shur-Flo 1.5 GPM, 100 psi pump I'll be using.

I STILL need to get my C4 built! I know a 3000 RPM converter behind this engine will REALLY help this car leave the line!
 
Old_Dad":2cri1s8e said:
Never had much uesh for slushboxes.

A C4 isn't a slushbox if you know what you are doing when you build it. It can shift faster than I can if done right. The Streetfighter torque converter isn't junk either. When it is all set up right, it would be near impossible to go faster with a manual trans.
 
i had my c4 rebuilt on my 80 capri, (inline of course), stock stall, but with a shit kit and that thing shifted FAST, it was a bit on the aggressive side for daily driving but man on man, i like the squeak when it shifted into second when i had the pedal down..
 
Funky Cricket":1p35ecim said:
but with a camel excrement kit.

Haha! You mispelled "shift" and look where it got you!! :D

I forgot that a fellow I know (I know him more for his Harley builds than for his transmissions) does a lot of side work, and I was talking to him today about it. He has the low down and is going to walk me through the rebuild. I hope the track stays open for a while, I'd like to see what difference a good transmission and converter makes!
 
Camel excrement, I like that. I have no real problem with automatic transmissions, just no real use for them. No matter what or how much you do to one, as far as I'm concerned is you're taking the fun out of driving your car and turning it into something that requires steering and drooling.
I'm pretty old fashioned though, and stuck in my ways even. *g*
 
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