EFI for the Aluminum Head

For those who own, or plan to purchase an aluminum head, which would you be most likely to purchase?

  • Naturally aspirated - 2V/4V Carb & Intake (non-EFI)

    Votes: 18 21.2%
  • Naturally aspirated - Weber Side Draft Carbs (non-EFI)

    Votes: 4 4.7%
  • Naturally aspirated - Single TB on our 2V/4V Intake

    Votes: 9 10.6%
  • Naturally aspirated - Single TB on Plenum Chamber

    Votes: 11 12.9%
  • Naturally aspirated - Multiple ITB's

    Votes: 7 8.2%
  • Naturally aspirated - Multiple DCOE TB's

    Votes: 1 1.2%
  • Boosted (turbo or S/C) - 2V/4V Carb & Intake (non-EFI)

    Votes: 4 4.7%
  • Boosted (turbo or S/C) - Single TB w/ Plenum

    Votes: 17 20.0%
  • Boosted (turbo or S/C) - Multiple ITB's w/ Plenum

    Votes: 3 3.5%
  • Boosted (turbo or S/C) - Multiple DCOE TB's w/ Plenum

    Votes: 4 4.7%
  • Other (such as homemade, triple SU, etc)

    Votes: 7 8.2%

  • Total voters
    85

AzCoupe

1K+
Departed Member
As you all know, we have been planning to develop some sort of EFI kit for the aluminum head for quite some time, so I finally decided to get the ball rolling. Since we've worked with Extrudabody in the past, we decided to hire their services and see what we could come up with. To date they have spent over 100 hours designing and modifing the various parts to our specifications. Needless to say, I'm very pleased with the results.

By producing a billet (or cast) manifold, a handful of adaptors, and a cast plenum chamber, we will be able to offer a wide variety of induction options. Naturally aspirated or boosted, carbs or injection, we've got it covered.

The design of the intake allows us to use Extrudabody ITB's, any Weber style throttle body, or triple Side Draft Webers (DCOE). We also designed an adaptor plate so that the plenum chamber can be bolted directly to the intake, which allows us to use a single throttle body, mounted to the plenum inlet with a flange adaptor (such as a 5.0 TB).

However with such a wide variety, we'd like to know which induction system you would be most likely to purchase (or upgrade to)? Our existing 2V/4V intake, or one of the new kits listed below. See Poll above....

1) Naturally aspirated - Weber Side Sraft Carbs
2) Naturally aspirated - Single TB
3) Naturally aspirated - Multiple ITB's
4) Naturally aspirated - Multiple Weber style TB's
5) Boosted (turbo or S/C) - Single TB
6) Boosted (turbo or S/C) - Multiple ITB's
7) Boosted (turbo or S/C) - Multiple Weber style TB's

Just to give you an idea of where were headed, here's a few of the CAD renderings and a simulated flow test. Please don't ask for any specifications or flow numbers, as we won't release them until we actually produce the parts and test them on a flow bench and dyno. We don't have any pricing established either, so please don't ask.... ;)

Cast Alloy Plenum Chamber mounted directly to the intake. We still need to design an adaptor plate (or flange) to fit on the inlet, so a single throttle body can be mounted. Note: the plenum can be rotated, with the inlet mounted fore or aft.
plenum2.jpg


Standard intake with ITB's and air horns.
billetintake3.jpg


Standard intake with ITB's and plenum chamber.
billetintake4.jpg


Simulated flow test
plenumflowtest.jpg

plenumflowtest2.jpg
 
While I love the look of multiple throttle bodies, I think a direct mount plenum with a single tb would be fairly easy to setup, wouldn't cause shock-tower interference issues, and would still take advantage of the head's capabilities. So that's what I voted for.

But sitting here typing this, I guess my only concern would be packaging, as mounting the plenum with the tb facing towards the radiator, would we run into clearance issues with accessories on that side of the engine bay(alternator, a/c)? On the other hand, if you flipped it around so the tb was near the firewall, you could take advantage of the air flow at the base of the windshield ala cowl induction. But again, packaging an air filter might be troublesome. Either way, if there are packaging issues, than using the existing 2v/4v intake would make more sense. (Plus there wouldn't need to be any development since the intake already exists and you know it's flow characteristics.)

I guess my only real concern isn't so much the hardware, but getting the fuel injection setup properly: controller, maps, etc. to minimize tuning time. (Now if you ever offered a crate motor with the efi kit all pre-programmed and optimized, I'd be signing on the dotted line in a heatbeat!)
 
now, the single TB, that's a single throttle body, with MPFI, or is it a single TBI system?
because, while i'd like to get the six independent throttle bodies, i'd go for the cheapest possible MPFI setup, which would probably be a single TB with six injectors


this is really cool stuff Mike
 
Just curious... what software are you using for the simulations? Solidworks? ProEngineer? Ansys?
 
Asa":3si1sl5l said:
now, the single TB, that's a single throttle body, with MPFI, or is it a single TBI system?
The single throttle body would be mounted on the plenum, which is bolted directly to the intake, with six injectors installed in the cylinder head intake runners. Therefore it would be a MPFI system.

AZstang66":3si1sl5l said:
Just curious... what software are you using for the simulations? Solidworks? ProEngineer? Ansys?
I have no idea what program they are using??
 
Great, more epic parts that I can't afford!

Any chance there's there's a slim possibility we can get a rough estimate on a semi-ballpark timeline? . .
 
I was talking to my pattern maker last week and we came up with another idea. Rather than making a manifold to support six IDA's (individual throttle bodies) or triple Weber DCOE side draft throttle bodies, why not make the manifold into a 6V throttle body? This has several advantages over separate throttle bodies.

No complicated linkage to fabricate.
No need to worry about synchronizing the butterflies.
Intake runners would be a straight shot, rather than angled (to match a Weber footprint).
Could be made to support a variety of air filters, cones, or a plenum chamber.
Could be machined without the shaft/butterflies, then used with a plenum and single TB.
It would be very compact and would fit just about any application, possibly even in an Econoline.
And the big one; no need to purchase 6 IDA's or triple DCOE TB's, greatly reducing the end cost.

The only drawback that I can think of, is that it wouldn't support triple Weber carbs. However, based on the replies above (only one vote for triple Weber's), there isn't a big demand for this application anyway.

The only trick is finding a machine shop capable of drilling/machining a long hole for the shaft/bushings. Not sure if we would install injector pads, or just put the injectors in the cylinder head. However if we supply pads, it could be installed on an OZ250-2V head (with minor modifications).
 
AzCoupe":288hz0gl said:
....

The only trick is finding a machine shop capable of drilling/machining a long hole for the shaft/bushings.....

Anyone who can drill rifle barrels can do that.
Joe
 
Mike,
I believe it would be a good idea to place injector pads on the 6V throttle body, similar to what you did on the 4bbl intake.
As you stated, this could be used by someone with a 250 2V head, which would give you a larger base of potential buyers.

Any other opinions on this?
 
AzCoupe":fbeumswf said:
... Could be machined without the shaft/butterflies, then used with a plenum and single TB. ...

I'm sitting here wondering how much of a benefit there really is to a set up that uses 6 butterflies in the runners as opposed to one that has a a plenum and single TB. It seems to me that the cost would be lower with the single throttle body set up. For anybody not looking for a full tilt, naturally aspirated, racing engine I suspect the single throttle body version would be just fine, and for anybody running a turbo the need for a plenum actually seems to make the single throttle body version the rational choice.

I mean, yeah, an individual runner system looks cool, but how much more power would it make in an engine using a street cam and mufflers? Enough to justify the added expense for most serious customers?

Does anybody have any thoughts on this?
 
The plenum chamber is economical, easy to produce, and can be fitted into tight spaces as well. It loses tunability, throttle response and ultimate horsepower potential to ITBs, but can produce 95% of the power for 1/3 of the cost probably...seems to be the best compromise for N/A. If boosted, the disadvantages of the plenum design are minimized.
 
I agree. Forget the multiple TBI (or butterflies) and go with a simple manifold, plenum chamber, and a single TB. This would be effective and cheap for those wanting to go with EFI, boosted or N/A.

For those wanting to go with carbs, one of my aluminum head customers is designing a twin 2V intake, which they plan to cast. Once they are done, they have offered to sell me the match plate, or to make up a few extra manifolds and sell them to me.

Therefore I'll probably make the intake from billet (with injector pads), then use the plenum chamber Extrudabody already makes, or design my own.

The manifold below was designed for triple Webers, with angled intake runners. All I need to do is to modify it for straight runners, which also lets me reduce the width. Pretty simple..... ;)

plenum2.jpg
 
Guys:

Mine is a "future interest" for the 240/300 head and manifolding in the works that I assume will take many design queues from the 144/200/250 products being discussed here.

It's hard to argue with the most simple approach of a 6-runner manifold (with injector pads), and a plenum that supports an appropriately sized mono throttle body. This would have to be the most inexpensive option (since it has the fewest components) and would work well for all but "maximum effort" NA and supercharged applications.

That being said, I don't think I would discount the idea of supporting an manifold variant that does include the necessary throttle shaft bosses; the long throttle shaft, seals and linkage; six individual butterflys; and any other mounting pads (for items like the throttle position sensor, throttle linkage supports, and such). I can't imagine there would be any significant cost to design and cast the manifold component of your proposed EFI system with the necessary pads and bosses in place (but not part of the standard finish machining). I'm sure those customers interested in the 6V option would certainly pay the appropriate upcharge for the required machining and additional throttle related pieces, and for a choice of air horns / velocity stacks in various lengths.

Customers wanting the mono throttle body version could probably expect fairly rapid order response since the (standard machined) components could be shipped from inventory. Customers wanting the 6V option would incur the additional lead time to cover the required additional machining, assembly, and QA operations.

So far as I can tell, all the design options and trade-offs that have accompanied the small six aluminum head and manifolding have been well considered and thought out, given the realities of the targetted market. It will be interesting to see how this EFI system plays out but I suspect it will bode well for the 240/300 big six down the line.
 
ill buy one the second it comes out i was going to drill into the head to mount the injectors and make a plenum but this makes it so much better
 
I like the idea of MPFI and a single throttle body. That's exactly the setup I want to have for my car and the research and commitment you guys have for this project is awesome. I'd be interested in any sort of time table as to how long development might take, because I'll start saving I'd really like one of these.
 
I'm tearing back into the mustang again, and plan to go MPFI and boost. Will most DEFINITELY purchase one when available.

The single throttle body and plenum would be perfect, and save me a ton of headache trying to fab it up. It would be a very similar setup as my 400hp civic. Easy setup and a lot more power. :)
 
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