200ci Echo -1955 Rebuild's His 1965 Mustang 200 I6 Block.

This applies only to 200ci
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Hey bubba
According to CI specks, it is offered with a 50cc as stock. The full information is HERE

If I use This Calculator
And Input:
Cylinders: 6
Bore: 3.72
Stroke: 3.126
Chambers: 50cc
Valve Relief/Dome cc: 6.6 ?? ( dont have a clue)
Gasket: .05
Deck Height: 0.0
It tells me Your displacement is 203.85 CID The Compression Ratio is: 9.13

I do not know how to calculate Valve Relief/Dome cc: so I left it at 6.6 ??
If I use head chamber of 48cc, It calls for displacement of 203.85 CID
and Compression Ratio is: 9.38

I understand how that works and I know the numbers may be off because I did not use the correct valve relief cc. I will figure that out latter with help from the members here.

I guess what I’m asking is this. If I use the volume I end up with from the machine shop, can I use any cam that will show the correct SCR relative to the correct DCR and the grade of fuel?
I’m thinking I will stick with regular fuel.
 
8) if you are replacing the pistons, they information that comes with them should give you the dome or valve relief volume.
 
Thank you rbohm
You cleared up a lot of cobwebs (y)
Say you wouldn't happen to know what a stock dish piston .030 over valve relief happens to be wood ya? :mrgreen:
 
8) nope, i have no clue. if you have the pistons and a burette, you can measure the total volume though. the burette needs to be marked in cc's, and it should hold at least 150cc's. fill the burette with water, and carefully drain the water into the piston dish until it is full, then cut the water off and read the level on the burette. you can do the same thing with the valve reliefs as well. or contact the manufacturer.
 
Thank you rbohm.. that’s absolute brilliance.. (y) well maybe not to you but certainly to me..
why can’t I come up with such solutions..duhhhh. :banghead:
The whole question may be mute. I was just trying to use my original pistons, but that may not be possible..

I talked to the machine shop yesterday and they said they needed about 3 more days.
So by this Thursday or Friday I should know what I would need.
 
:) Hi echo1955.Reusing old pistons is NORMALLY not a good idea,as there could be hidden damage such as internal stress damage.
That could cost you a complete rebuild,and possible loss of block.Ask me how I know :oops: :oops: :oops: .
Leo
 
rbohm":19jt96e9 said:
8) nope, i have no clue. if you have the pistons and a burette, you can measure the total volume though. the burette needs to be marked in cc's, and it should hold at least 150cc's. fill the burette with water, and carefully drain the water into the piston dish until it is full, then cut the water off and read the level on the burette. you can do the same thing with the valve reliefs as well. or contact the manufacturer.
You could take some putty and fill the dish and level it off. Pop it out and put it in a measuring cup with water. It will displace its own volume.
 
echo1955":alg8ss3j said:
Hey bubba
According to CI specks, it is offered with a 50cc as stock. The full information is HERE

If I use This Calculator
And Input:
Cylinders: 6
Bore: 3.72
Stroke: 3.126
Chambers: 50cc
Valve Relief/Dome cc: 6.6 ?? ( dont have a clue)
Gasket: .05
Deck Height: 0.0
It tells me Your displacement is 203.85 CID The Compression Ratio is: 9.13

I do not know how to calculate Valve Relief/Dome cc: so I left it at 6.6 ??
If I use head chamber of 48cc, It calls for displacement of 203.85 CID
and Compression Ratio is: 9.38

I understand how that works and I know the numbers may be off because I did not use the correct valve relief cc. I will figure that out latter with help from the members here.

I guess what I’m asking is this. If I use the volume I end up with from the machine shop, can I use any cam that will show the correct SCR relative to the correct DCR and the grade of fuel?
I’m thinking I will stick with regular fuel.

Don't use the CR calculation formula there. Valve relief is places cut into the pistons for the valves to clear; not normally found in our pistons. Use the CR calculator here: http://falconperformance.sundog.net/compcalculator.asp or use 0.00 in the valve relief section.

If you use your numbers, with 0.00 valve relief, you come up with 10-1 CR. Your chamber volume would have to be 56cc to get a 9.5-1 CR

Hope this helps.
 
Thank you very much rocklord.. actually when I realize how much you cleared things up for me, a thank you doesn’t seem adequate.

You have answered my next question as well. I have looked at a lot of pistons lately with recess in their heads. I was going to ask why These Pistons had none… Now I knows.. (y)

I have a strange quark. I can see the obvious, stare at the obvious and still have reservations about the obvious. :unsure:
Until someone with experience tells me
Yep sonny, it is obvious you is staring at the obvious… :mrgreen:

Now I can have an informed conversation with the mechanist and actually keep up with him..
Until now that was outside my ability....
Thanks again.. (y)
 
Up date:
I spoke with the machinist this morning. My motor was +.030 over. It will be bored out +.040 over.
Vat block, Magnaflux
Machine the deck .010.
Dish pistons with a 7cc recess.
Balance moving parts
Polish crank 10/10 ok.
ARP bolts.
Dual Roller timing chain
With a 9.5:1 SCR

Haven’t decided the cam yet. Ether 264 w/110 LC or 264 w/112 LC.
I will be picking the motor up around 29 or 30 November.
Then the wait’s over and da fun part begins.. :beer:
 
echo1955":2lpze2rt said:
Haven’t decided the cam yet. Ether 264 w/110 LC or 264 w/112 LC.

8) to help you make the decision, if you are going to use a manual trans, then go with the 110 lobe separation, of an automatic then the 112 is the way to go.
 
maybe a stock duration, higher lift, and less lobe centers
like
256/256 .450 (or .480) and 108* LC

benefits =
same power range that you are used to
more lift than stock = more torque AND power
less LC = faster reving engine (I can see a huge benefit if using a log head as it will carb out @ 4700rpm with a single bbl)

or got in between..

but keep reading, you only want to select a cam once. Look at the power RPM range. 112 is best for auto tranny's

if you stick with the 264 duration cam, increase your DCR by increasing your SCR, you want it more than stock., but remeber what gas you use.
 
rbohm":1b9twcev said:
echo1955":1b9twcev said:
Haven’t decided the cam yet. Ether 264 w/110 LC or 264 w/112 LC.

8) to help you make the decision, if you are going to use a manual trans, then go with the 110 lobe separation, of an automatic then the 112 is the way to go.

Thank you rbohm. One of the most consistent opinions posted here was to use a 112 LC with the C4…

I have no reason to oppose using the 112 with all the information I have learned from the members here.
 
:) Hi echo1955.As an earlier post mentioned,the C4 IS a good tranny.With a good stock rebuild it will live well behind your 200.
There are companies that can build a C4 that will live behind up to IIRC,appx 800 ponies,if not more.
Leo
 
Thank you MPG

MPGmustan
maybe a stock duration, higher lift, and less lobe centers
like
256/256 .450 (or .480) and 108* LC

benefits =
same power range that you are used to
more lift than stock = more torque AND power
less LC = faster reving engine
(I can see a huge benefit if using a log head as it will carb out @ 4700rpm with a single bbl)

I don’t want to go with my log head unless I have to. I say that because CI hasn’t come out with their tri carb manifold as yet and they have no ETA. If that doesn’t develop by the time I need it, then I will go with plan B.

Plan B: (just implemented :mrgreen: ) Use my log and Offenhauser Triple manifold.

My motor is being machined to give me a 9.5 SCR using a Felpro gasket of .038. Now I have to see if the log head can be machined to keep the 9.5..??

or got in between..

but keep reading, you only want to select a cam once
. Look at the power RPM range. 112 is best for auto tranny's

if you stick with the 264 duration cam, increase your DCR by increasing your SCR, you want it more than stock., but remeber what gas you use.

I definitely hear you 5x5 there.. :mrgreen:

If the log head can be machined to keep the 9.5:1
I believe with the carb setup and adding the dual exhaust headers I should be able to use the 264/264 108LC w/stock C4 and 2.8 rear-end.

Yes….No…. :unsure:
 
woodbutcher":2cakxlk4 said:
:) Hi echo1955.As an earlier post mentioned,the C4 IS a good tranny.With a good stock rebuild it will live well behind your 200.
There are companies that can build a C4 that will live behind up to IIRC,appx 800 ponies,if not more.
Leo

Thank you woodbutcher (y) .... Can you tie a name to company... :D
 
:) Hi echo1955.B&M hydro,been around since IIRC 1953.They built the FIRST 4 speed automatic for race use.TCI is another.There are several more out there to look at.
Best of luck,and have fun.
Silent Service or Cans?
Leo
 
woodbutcher":36vbrd60 said:
:) Hi echo1955.B&M hydro,been around since IIRC 1953.They built the FIRST 4 speed automatic for race use.TCI is another.There are several more out there to look at.
Best of luck,and have fun.
Silent Service or Cans?
Leo

Thank you woodbutcher... I will be into my trans when I finish this build...

negative....negativeFMF :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
Hey woodbutcher, you gave me a real good chuckle the way you phrased your comment.. :mrgreen:
I thought hummm only a Navy Vet would know about Cans… (y)
Semper Fi Leo..
Roy
 
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