Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

CoupeBoy

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So my wife left me today.. don't worry she will be back, she is just at a conference in Las Vegas. But since I am a single father this week with 2 small helpers.. I decided to get to doing some projects that I have been putting off for a while..

Today I give to you the dimensions of motor mount, I measured an aftermarket one directly off of a 1967 200 and compared it against one that is a factory stock part that is of a different design, but same bolt hole measurements.

This first picture is the aftermarket motor mount that I used for the measurements, and all the important measurements that you would need if you were building a replacement.
SmallSixMotorMountDimensions.JPG
In case it is hard to read, the text from the pictures..

Measurements from points
A -> B = 2 1/2"
A -> C = 3 3/8"
A -> D = 5 1/8"
A -> E = 4 3/4"

Line between B -> E represents an imaginary 90° angle that originates in the center of the bolt that holds the motor mount onto the frame mount, and from that point it is extended up until it meets the vertical upright portion of where the motor mount bolts onto the engine.
B -> E = 4"

The angle of interest is point A and it is 60°.

For something else that I am working on, here is a picture of my 2yr old helper and a factory frame mount with a C7ZA-6038-C (Blue*) motor mount still bolted to it.
MyHelper.JPG

The motor mounts themselves are very different looking physically, but the bolt holes to mount to the engine in relation to the bolt that holds it onto the frame mount are in the exact same location/orientation. These bolt holes are in the same plane.
 
Kids went to bed, so I got back to work... Earlier this week I took a stock '68 Mustang Shackle bushing down to the steel yard and found some tubing that the bushing fit inside of nicely, it turns out that the tubing has a 1.5" outside diameter, and you need 2.5" of tubing to fit the bushings inside it. The mushroom end on the shackle bushing will extend .5" bringing the entire width of the tubing plus bushing to 3.5" wide.

So I got started.. First a new spin on an old design, a new motor mount.
DSC_1892.JPG
This layout give easy access to the engine side bolts, easy adjustment side to side with a slotted bolt that mates the engine side of the bracket to the bushing side of the bracket, with 2 slots to choose from (5/8" apart, I tried it at 1/2" but with a .40 hole for a .375 bolt, it didn't leave enough "meat" between the slots)

So theoretically you could use these mounts on ANY small six. With a 144/170/200 use the bottom slot. If you wanted to fit a 250 the top slot (with 1/2" adjustment available) should drop a 250 in and get you remarkably close to a standard 200 height.

After the first sketch (which was full scale) I took a lot of measurements and turned it into bracket drawings.

This first bracket would bolt to the existing frame mount, would require (2) 90° bends, then weld the 1.5" tubing through the holes. If left un-assembled the end user *could* move the engine rearward .25" and weld them together themselves. the tubing would still be fully supported by the bracket.
DSC_1891.JPG

Then I made the top bracket, just (2) 90° bends, no welding, bolt into place. There is a lot of 'meat' in this bracket as well where the bolts go through, I am certain that you could move the engine forward or rearward with just some new bolt holes.
DSC_1890.JPG

After getting the full scale drawings done, I photo copied them and cut them out for test fit.
DSC_1893.JPG
DSC_1894.JPG
And by now most of you have seen the large gap between the inner bracket and the outer bracket, here is a picture of the 1.5" tubing with a shackel bushing pressed into it so you can see how much space it requires.
DSC_1902.JPG

And now you know why my wife doesn't go out of town very often.. I will fill her kitchen counter and the dining room table with greasy/oily parts and then do arts and crafts.. ;)

I am going to work on getting some drawings done so the plates can be cut out, I have to talk to the guys at work and see how tight we can bend items, not sure if I can get a bracket bent as I have designed it. But there are things that can be done, like if the full encapsulating round brackets prove to be too long (hit the bender when bending up the second side) I could either trim off the full loop so it is only welded on the bottom side, or make the bracket a 2 peice unit so that one of the encapsulating sides is 'weld on'. I tried to design it with very minimal welding, since I can't weld, I assume none of you can either, with a full encapsulating weld, it shouldn't take much more than a couple good tack welds to keep it from moving. And even if it breaks the welds, it won't be able to fully fail unless it tears through the encapsulating loop.

Questions? Comments? Thing this is the scariest thing you have ever seen?
 
"Thing this is the scariest thing you have ever seen?"

No, he's a very nice lookin boy.
8^0
Thanks , Ron, 4 ur post. I believe U may become one of the site's motor mount pro...
(I've seen your collection of mounts on the 'racks' and p/u truck 'bed' in the pic U posted).
Now what bout the 'towers' (or what ever folks name them)? Can those B played with? The one I call the Maverick seems to have no tower, only bolts, a simple "L" bracket and a rubber bushing/pad...
 
I am afraid that for Broncos you are stuck with what Ford gave you. I only know of a single straight six Bronco in Fargo, it is just a frame. But I might go see if I can go pull some measurements. I don't know the guy so it may not be possible.

But for unibody cars there is a bit if wiggle room. Which is what I was playing with in the picture that I took of my boy. I took measurements of the engine mount holes on relation to the unibody holes. Depending not how these first mounts turn out I may consider building entirely new frame/motormounts that do not use any original parts.

For another project I also have a need for some motor mounts to out a 300 into a 67 Mustang. I have about three months before I will be able to drive my 68 Mustang (its winter here) and in that time I am going to pull the current motor/transmission (not a six, needs some internal engine work) and while that is out I will install a 200/C4, upgrade that to a 250. Somewhere in that process I will mock mount my 300 for future use in my '67. Lots of pics and measurements will be taken and posted.
 
:unsure: Do Like your design a lot and with the multi bolt holes too adapt for all the sixes. I have a question though why have the slotted holes on both sides of the engine adapter? This might allow too much movement when engine torques and or may let the engine be mounted closer to one side of the chassis. Maybe use it on only one side or use one or two drill sizes bigger than bolt dia. I do think that you could bend the parts fairly easy each from a single piece of sheet metal. Use to know a formula for the radius, it should be easy enough to find. The measurements need to be adjusted some as the part would gain a small amount to width with each of the bends. About the only welding needed would be the tube to lower mount. Good luck :nod:
 
The hydraulic brake at work cannot quite bend tight enough for the bottom bracket, so I may have to modify it a bit, or make it a 2 peice design so that one of the sides gets welded on. I am also going to research other bending options. Like maybe have a press die built out of our 1" scrap so I can use a shop press.

The slots... At first I was thinking about just having 4 holes there instead of 2 slots. Today I bought a handful of 5" 3/8" grade 5 bolts and 4' of 1/2" tubing. The tubing cut at 3.5" fits stock 68 Mustang bushing inside bushing diameter perfectly and the inside is the perfect size for the bolt. So when tightened up, the steel sleeve will be compressed between the outer bracket. Metal on metal and torque down *should* hold it in place and give the option to move side to side if a person wants to. I was planning on having the inside edge of the slot the right width for a 200 and the outside width correct for a 250.

Fwiw, I won't drill any holes, I will work with another of our forum members to have a CAD program written (dxf or dwg) and have it cut on the plasma table at work, out of our normal production scrap.

Which reminds me, if the tubing thickness is 12g. What would be a good thickness for the brackets?
 
If you used 3/16 up to 1/4 inch material should be plenty
 
I was up way too late last night... anyhow, at my work desk now I have these pictures downloaded from ebay of another somewhat famous engine mount setup. it uses slots and I have not heard (nor have I looked for) any problems with them having slots, and i would guess that the motors they are used with are slightly larger with more HP than most small sixes..
$(KGrHqR,!hoE82zwnusKBPb7dpi3bQ~~60_12.jpg
$(KGrHqZ,!gwE9T96KBrmBPb7do0ydg~~60_12.jpg

And just because I am a giant tease.. The other forum member took my measurements and created DXF/DWG drawings so I could make my own Strut Tower brace.. If he wants to put his name on this he's more than welcome to, but since I didn't ask if he wanted to be listed, I'm leaving his name out!

The paper drawings are ones that I made, I measured, then created a set from paper, then sent him the coordinates, he graciously sent me back the DXF/DWG. These ones are WAY too thick, the day I had them cut, he happened to be cutting some 3/8" so he just cut these out for me..
IMG-20130102-00420.jpg

I have yet to order the threaded rods and heims. And I still need to figure out what I am doing in regards to the Monte Carlo brace..

And this is a set of motor mount plates based off coordinates that FTF posted on the forum a while back..
IMG190.jpg
IMG194.jpg

If you look at these pictures larger, you will see that plasma cutting does an excellent job on one side, but the backside of the cut can get a bit of splatter. I am willing to live with it, these are untouched, I will hit them with a hand held grinder and they will be perfect for my upcoming engine stand...

Just because I am at work, doesn't mean I don't know how to have a little fun... :LOL:
 
Very nice on the cowl and tower brace plates :nod: excellent those are very clean cuts it looks like you have some nice equipment there to use (y)
 
"...how to have a little fun..."

any time I save money brings joy (euphoria). your work equipment would make me ecstatic...
enjoy the free machine time!
 
Chad,
I had a little free time at work today and I poked through some HUGE PDF files that I bought a while back from eBay, thought you might like to see this.. and by huge, I mean this one has 2488 pages of information, but it is a scanned image of a book, so I can't search for anything in it which makes finding things very difficult.

Early Bronco Motor Mount Setup
EB_Motor_Mounts_CleanedUp.jpg

I removed a bunch of stuff that was not motor mount related, but you can see from these pictures that the parts that make a V8 frame different from a i6 are Parts numbered 5057 and 5058, those brackets are welded to the frame rails.

Parts numbered 6038 are the actual motor mounts and while they have a slightly different shape, the still look like the same dimensions as the Mustang ones I have at home.

For kicks I called O'Reily's and Napa, they didn't even have a listing for it in their catalogs.
 
neither duz my big box prts co. employer. those R ford and prob unavailable (from ford). I torched off the V8 & put on the I6 when swapping the engine/transm/transf. The V8 'tower' IS a triangle type thing, I still have them, forgot what the 6's wuz like (been a few yrs. the 170 is out of the '70 frame). I can't see it in ur post (yet).

"...finding things (is) very difficult..."
wonder if U could go 2 the original book they came from (index? table of context?)...

keep havin fun, bro! thanks 4 sharin!
 
Only a mere year later.. I finally finish 1 of them.. :rolflmao:
I had the plates cut last Spring sometime, and they rode around in my pickup or sat in my shop the last 10 months..

Fresh cut plates


Where the plates were supposed to be bent, my first set are off just a little bit..

A set of brackets one without the bushing tube, and a complete setup for one side.


And back to back with a stock mount.



I'm trying to work with a local machine shop to have a batch of these cut/bent (properly) and hope to offer a few sets in the near future.

-ron
 
Wow - that is really impressive.

Is there a realistic way to design the mounts to work with either the 200, or the 250 (in a lowered position - to avoid hood clearance issues)?
 
The second set of slots is for if you wanted the motor to sit lower in the engine bay (144/170/200). Or swap in a 250 with hood clearance.

And if you wanted to move the engine rearward for more radiator/fan clearance you could drill another set of holes in the engine side bracket. Plenty of "meat" up there.

[edited]because I should NEVER reply via cellphone, and I had a bunch of extra stuff in here that was not neccessary. :banghead:
 
"...a mere year later..."
so let's update the lill cherub('s pic too) to a 3 y/o as well.

Lots'a work there! U GO cBoy! Keep up the good work. :thanks: Glad it's purdy much near where U want it!
Looks ideal for someone switchin motors back'n forth at the track for different classes! Imagine that...

I'm still thinkin the '71-'78 Maverick 250 bracket & mount will do it for me. Looked back at my archive (what folks have been tellin me all along) to find these 3 or 4 details spread about. Consoladated now, into a more usable whole, I may move forward. Same ol story, tho - need some $ 1st.

:boom:
 
One step closer to being able to start producing these for sale.. I built a couple small die presses to bend the brackets on a hydraulic press. I think the brackets turned out a lot nicer than the first ones. FWIW, in order to bend the first ones the guy I had do it "Dan" did what they call break the back. So if you look at the first ones, there is a bend straight down the backside of it through the bolt hole(s). You can see it in this picture, the metal has an "S" curve right down the middle. If you look close enough you can see it on both top and bottom brackets.

Because our brake press dies wouldn't allow such a tight bend without the piece running into the blade/die.

A new set of brackets fresh off the press.




I'm actually pretty excited about the whole ordeal, since I now know I can bend 3/16" steel this way
Because it also paves the way for me to be able to make my other project become easier to do.. A '67-70 T5/AOD crossmember. (it bolts together). The only tricky part was how to bend the center piece where the transmission mount bolts down.

 
"...A '67-70 T5/AOD crossmember...
'67 -'70 'stang?

and for the
'90 - '00 T5???
'76 - '89 AOD/EAOD???

Thanks.
 
I think you have the wrong years for the AOD/AODE. But yes, it should work for any of them. The measurements that were used to make mine were pulled from a commercially available crossmember that was made from tubular steel. The crossmember will physically bolt into any Mustang ('65-70) however I never built an e-brake bracket for the '65/66. But if you have a '65/66 and have reconfigured your ebrake cables. This crossmember should work perfect.

From
Ford AOD transmission -- wikipedia
It looks like the AOD was first used in 1980, and I would say the cut off year should be the last year for a Windsor SBF.
 
"...the wrong years..."
Yes, just urgin 4 something a lill more concise & some clarity, that could be of use here:
ie -

stamped steel transmission x-member available to moders to place a:
1980 - '93 AOD/EOD
into a
1965 - 1970 Mustang.
E brake cable re-routing needed on '65 & 6 vehicles.


Is that right?
What about the T5? There may B a larger percentage of folk interested in that...
 
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