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A/C compressors

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wild bill
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Location: Winfield, Georgia

A/C compressors

Post #1 by wild bill » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:55 am

I know this is a bit off the performance subject BUT... I'm ready to put A/C back on the 250. is there a newer model compressor using 134 freon or something else that I should use which will work as good as the original but use less HP?
1986 F250 2wd, 300ci, Clifford intake, headers, cam, head, Harland and Sharp roller rockers,Edlebrock 500cfm, Performance distributor, ZF 5 Transmission, 3.55:1 positrac. Owned since new.

Baron Von Ottomatic
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Re: A/C compressors

Post #2 by Baron Von Ottomatic » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:05 pm

The compressor for R134 is the same but it uses a different oil. Flush the entire system very well before you add the R134 oil charge and refrigerant. Replace the orifice tube and dryer too, of course.

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MechRick
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Re: A/C compressors

Post #3 by MechRick » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:14 pm

When I redid the A/C in my '86 I converted to R134. I used a newer model condenser with a pusher fan wired to come on with the compressor clutch. It was adequate for Vegas.

I swapped all those components to my '94 including the evaporator and box. For some reason, I didn't need the pusher fan for the pickup. Don't know why, could be that airflow around the radiator is better on the newer trucks, or that the pickup cab is easier to cool than the bigger Bronco. Just know that it cools well.

R134 will consume a slight bit more power simply because the pressures are higher. Get the best condenser you can get to keep the head pressure down...
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

BIG 6 farmer
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Location: On a dirt road near Washington Nebr.

Re: A/C compressors

Post #4 by BIG 6 farmer » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:50 am

I remember back in the day all the fretting about R12 going away. The first info on 134a conversions was to change the Dryer, orifice tube, hoses & charge fittings, add larger Condenser (if needed).Flush system, add new oil, & 134a refrigerant. Not too many years later, it was... change fittings , add oil & charge. Has seemed to work ok, most of the time. :| 134a doesnt perform as well as R12, runs higher Head pressures (more drag) & leaks out faster. Have been using a Refrigerant from a Company called Redtek, works very well. Out performs even R12, runs @ lower pressures too. They make a great system sealer/ stop leak also. Go for a modern, smaller Jap built Compressor. Will be easier to mount, and have a lot less drag on Engine. :nod:
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

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MechRick
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Re: A/C compressors

Post #5 by MechRick » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:44 pm

Supposedly R134 won't circulate mineral oil (used in R12 systems), which is the reason to flush and switch to PAG. YMMV depending where you live. What works in Seattle isn't going to cut it in Phoenix. As a general rule, it is unwise to press an old compressor previously used in an R12 system into R134 use.

Another problem is R12 hoses. Newer systems use barrier hoses which prevent the smaller R134 molecules from escaping through the hose rubber.

Is the Redtek stuff a hydrocarbon blend? I ran freeze 12 in my Mustang for the above reasons. It's a blend of propane and isobutane and seemed to work well. I remember someone exclaiming in horror about the flammability of it. Yeah, Buddy, like the 15 gallons of gas, several quarts of transmission/power steering fluid, brake fluid and several hundred pounds of plastic in the car won't burn? Heck, even pure antifreeze will burn... :roll:

Seems the auto industry agrees. Evidently R134 can cause testicular cancer, so hydrocarbon blends in A/C systems will become the norm over the next few years...
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

BIG 6 farmer
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Location: On a dirt road near Washington Nebr.

Re: A/C compressors

Post #6 by BIG 6 farmer » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:25 pm

All true what you say about 134a conversions. It comes down to how good of a switch over ya want to do. Yes here in Nebr. it gets HOT, but the season is short. Did have concerns on the Redtek being a danger. Read what was in it years back. If i remember right? no Butane or Propane. The stuff sure puts out the cold. :thumbup:
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

wild bill
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Location: Winfield, Georgia

Re: A/C compressors

Post #7 by wild bill » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:32 am

Hey thanks, great info. Never heard of the Redtek but will look for it. From what all of you are saying I assume the compressors we use from the factory are it except if we want to convert to a jap model. I was really looking to use less Hp but still have cold air. - WB
1986 F250 2wd, 300ci, Clifford intake, headers, cam, head, Harland and Sharp roller rockers,Edlebrock 500cfm, Performance distributor, ZF 5 Transmission, 3.55:1 positrac. Owned since new.

country fried 6
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Re: A/C compressors

Post #8 by country fried 6 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:14 pm

RED TEK® 12a, a HC-based refrigerant from Thermofluid Technologies, is a blend of environmentally safe hydrocarbon fluids designed as a direct replacement and retrofit refrigerant option for replacing R134a and R12 refrigerants in automotive air conditioning and refrigeration systems. 12a operates at lower head pressures and offers improved cooling properties and performance verses R134a and R12.

BENEFITS
•Operation: RED TEK® 12a possesses similar volumetric refrigerating effects to R12 or R134a refrigerants. Operates at lower head pressures and offers improved cooling properties, performance and energy efficiency verses R12 or R134a. Can be used effectively in R12 or R134a refrigeration systems without major "retrofitting."


•Lower Cost: Less expensive than R12 refrigerant and R134a "retrofits". Energy savings up to 30%.


•Compatibility: Compatible with most common refrigeration materials and lubricants including R134a, R12, metal components, mineral and synthetic(Ester and PAG) lubricants, seals, gaskets, hoses, compressors, and o-rings.


•Environment: 100% natural organic refrigerant, non-ozone depleting, non-global warming. 12a is in full compliance with the UN Montreal Protocol.


•Safety: Does not become caustic when contaminated with moisture or oxygen. Non-toxic, non-carcinogen, autoignition temperature above 1385F. No long term health risks have been attributed to RED TEK® 12a refrigerant.

http://www.redtek.com/win_12a_prod.html

sounds like good stuff, operates at lower head pressure too. it is an HC, so is flammable if your concerned by that.

BIG 6 farmer
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Re: A/C compressors

Post #9 by BIG 6 farmer » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:11 pm

Thanks Country fried 6, for layin out the info. :thumbup: Red tek been around awhile, real popular with the Farmer folks. Used a lot in Combines, & Tractor cabs. I have worked alot with R12 & 134a, but i am amazed how cold the Redtek makes the air coming out. I have measured 5-10 degrees better than R 12. while running lower Head pressures, & a quieter Compressor. They make a good system stop leak, that will seal a fair leak in the metal lines, Condenser, Evap. coil. I have used it with success. :nod: From what i remember reading years back, its safer than a Butane/Propane Refrigerant :hmmm: But like MechRick said, a car has many flammable things on it. :( that is so true.
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

motzingg
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Re: A/C compressors

Post #10 by motzingg » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:07 am

what are some of the 'newer jap compressors' one should be looking for?

i'm piecing together a whole retrofit system, and would like to source as much as possible from the junkyard. Don't know a whole lot about these systems, is it best to pull an entire system from a car/truck? Is it all 'universal' enough to piece together? Does r12/r134 require a different unloader valve?

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MechRick
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Re: A/C compressors

Post #11 by MechRick » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:31 pm

The Denso 471-8130 compressor fits the serpentine belt 4.9L's. It is a wobble plate compressor that would probably last longer than the Ford FS10.

The ultimate in efficiency would be a scroll compressor. Ford is using them on newer vehicles (just installed one on a 05-ish Expedition). It's a 3 bolt mount that may work with the 4 bolt 4.9L bracket. I'll have to dig one out of the core barrel and check.

Scrolls have issues though. The clearance between the scroll and the housing is less than the thickness of a human hair which makes them sensitive to particulates in the system and bearing wear...when they go boom it is usually dramatic...
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

motzingg
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Re: A/C compressors

Post #12 by motzingg » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:53 am

thanks for the response. wobble plate sounds good to me, i don't need mega efficiency... don't really like air much at all, just needing something to take the edge off.

i'm thinking right now that i'm going to try to jam a evap. core in the stock heater unit in front of the heater core... is that totally crazy? I'm not afraid of busting out some sheet metal or hacking things up, the stock system is in pretty rough shape already.

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MechRick
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Re: A/C compressors

Post #13 by MechRick » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:13 pm

What year is your truck? The 80-96 trucks bolt the evaporator housing under the hood. It's fairly easy to swap one in...
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

motzingg
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Re: A/C compressors

Post #14 by motzingg » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:01 pm

1968... nothing easy about that!

i'm not seeing any of the underdash units in the junkyard and i've had people tell me the evap coils for those might not be very good for 134, also they are likely going to be in rough shape from the condensation sitting on them.

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