New project Eaton M90 and EFI on my early Bronco 200

Johnsondawg

Johnsondawg

Well-known member
I have not posted in quite a while but I have never stopped lurking in the background. Anyway, I have started a new project and wanted to seek out some advice here. As the title says, I have plans to change up the 200 I rebuilt ( Donated from a 68 Mustang ) a few years ago. Most of the hard parts have been gathered and we are getting ready to begin mocking this up. The EFI will be a Modified Ford setup. We are currently reworking a Ford F150 300 EFI harness and we will control it with a Mustang A9L or A9P ECU from a 5.0 Mustang. The harness will also be converted to Mass Air like the 89-93 Mustang. We are going to run the stock head and have the log head machined to use #24 injectors. The Supercharger is an Eaton M90 from a 2000 Pontiac. All of the harness work and tuning work is being done by a friend of mine who knows far more about that aspect of the project than i do. The current problem I'm working on is one that has been discussed many times here. Serpentine Belt Drive. I would love a one belt system but I don't see that happening unless someone knows a good way to convert a stock water pump to reverse rotation. Option 2 is dual serpentine belts- still not easy but ( i think ) doable. I also considered a combination setup running my Power steering off of a V belt and making a bolt on serpentine pulley for the crank that would drive the Supercharger and Alternator. In this configuration the Alternator would also serve as the belt tensioner for the serpentine side of the system. I currently have a Power steering pump mounted on homemade brackets but that is going to have to be changed because its mounted high and close to the engine which will be in the way of the supercharger snout. I recently found a junkyard power steering mount on a 82ish mustang (200cid) that should move the power steering pump out of the path of the supercharger snout. I have read a bunch of posts on serpentine conversions but they all seem to peter out without any definitive answers on how to get it done. I am open to any options that accomplish what I need which is to drive the supercharger, keep the power steering and if possible put the supercharger on the same plane with the alternator. This last part is because I have converted to a 3G alternator which was originally a serpentine Alternator. It works fine on a V belt but has that annoying squeal when you start it up. I will keep this updated as I go. If your interested, I have a few photos of parts and the Bronco on Coloradoclassicbroncos.com. Here is a link, it has a few photos and some information on the Thick Film ignition distributor I built for the project. http://www.coloradoclassicbroncos.com/v ... f=3&t=5667
 
It's all your choice, and I'm sure you'll succeed.

The old I6 has enough space for a much bigger blower, and a full F150 4.9 EFI serpentine drive, and the EDIS makes space which the stock distrubutor wastes. Look at Balldricks 1960 Falcon, and see how much room a distributor takes up. Shame to waste the potential for another 50 hp by going to a low rent EEC4 and stock Duraspark, and then a too small blower.


See this http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd15 ... GP5090.jpg ?

My advice is to Sell the M90, you'll get great money for it, and try get a Ford M112. The M90 is too small, its just 2.3 liters, and overheats. Use an F150 full serpentine drive, and make a reverse pump idler gear. 3G alternator bottom right, Mitsubishi Starion/ Triton/L200/ 2.6 Astron ii Power steering pump top left, blower bottom left, everything else stock F150.

Use a remote EWP water pump, and EDIS from a junked Explorer or Mustang or F150 with the 3.8 or 4.2 Essex 90 degree V6.

The OBDII sensors can be hooked up, but don't have to have hard connection to the car to remain functional and to allow an EEC5 to work.

The Aussie guys have been doing superchargers since the 90's too, and the stock GM and early Super Coupe 3.8 stuff is just too small.

Look at these on page 18 and 30 on http://www.fordmods.com/the-garage-f53/ ... 9-255.html, and and then be inspired...
 
... very interested in your project. I'm assembling a low boost forced induction bolt-on setup for 170/200 with supercharger or turbocharger considered. Currently working logistics of an Eaton/Pontiac M62 SC,


thanks



have fun
 
xctasy":3nrp9k57 said:
It's all your choice, and I'm sure you'll succeed.

The old I6 has enough space for a much bigger blower, and a full F150 4.9 EFI serpentine drive, and the EDIS makes space which the stock distrubutor wastes. Look at Balldricks 1960 Falcon, and see how much room a distributor takes up. Shame to waste the potential for another 50 hp by going to a low rent EEC4 and stock Duraspark, and then a too small blower.


See this http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd15 ... GP5090.jpg ?

My advice is to Sell the M90, you'll get great money for it, and try get a Ford M112. The M90 is too small, its just 2.3 liters, and overheats. Use an F150 full serpentine drive, and make a reverse pump idler gear. 3G alternator bottom right, Mitsubishi Starion/ Triton/L200/ 2.6 Astron ii Power steering pump top left, blower bottom left, everything else stock F150.

Use a remote EWP water pump, and EDIS from a junked Explorer or Mustang or F150 with the 3.8 or 4.2 Essex 90 degree V6.

The OBDII sensors can be hooked up, but don't have to have hard connection to the car to remain functional and to allow an EEC5 to work.

The Aussie guys have been doing superchargers since the 90's too, and the stock GM and early Super Coupe 3.8 stuff is just too small.

Look at these on page 18 and 30 on http://www.fordmods.com/the-garage-f53/ ... 9-255.html, and and then be inspired...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, Looks like there is a lot of reading in that thread. I like the 90 degree elbow on the back of that M112. The Down side is availability. The M90 is much more available. We may still go distributorless if needed. One thing to keep in mind is that This Bronco is a driver so reliability is a must. I am also wanting to use off the shelf parts as much as possible. I will do some more reading on the F150 serpentine. I was under the impression that that had been used on the big sixes but not on the small six. I'll do more reading on that.
 
Here's an Eaton SC on a US engine in a setup I'm emulating:



considering a draw-through carb and got a 90 degree carb-turbo plenum to work with kinda' like this SC AMC six:

.

have fun
 
powerband":2i082odr said:
Here's an Eaton SC on a US engine in a setup I'm emulating:



considering a draw-through carb and got a 90 degree carb-turbo plenum to work with kinda' like this SC AMC six:

.

have fun
Click to expand...

I have seen that first photo before and its a clean setup. In my situation, the Supercharger needs to be much lower due to hood clearance issues. Also, that supercharger looks to be the Ford super coupe version of the M90 which is configured a bit different. On the GM version that I have, the snout is several inches longer and the throttle body actually comes straight out the back. To make it all fit, mine will be mounted on its side with a 90 degree elbow on the back which will point to the passenger side. I have been working on the relocation of the Power steering pump this evening and I think I have the solution for that figured out. Now I'm working on getting it to line up correctly. I'll get some photos up soon.
 
I understand the price/cost implications, but a too small blower will always cost more than a bigger blower to support. Even a 213 cubic inch 3/71 or 284 cubic inch 4/71 will make better power than a smaller Eaton. People package 371 and 471's into 2.3 Pinto and Vega engines all the time, they are easy to engineer, and blower plates to adjust the clearances abound in free measure, with excellent knowledge from the most lowly GMC two stroke marine engineer or old Petebone Hoe or Champion grader mechanic. GMC two stroke blowers are as American as apple pie, and practically helped win WW2 in the Pacific in boats and Genset generators and so forth.

The M62 can make 480 odd horsepower in a 12:1 compression ratio V-tec Endyn Honda 97 cubic inch, 1600 cc engine, but its only a 62 cubic inch blower, and its an air heater when cycled. When an option on certain Buick 3800's , it made 205 hp tops. The M90 made about 233 hp on GM3800's in 1996 onwards. An Ogura SC14 makes about 230 hp tops on a Buick 3800 with 85 cubic inches. An SC12, with 67 cubic inches made 150 hp on a 4AGE Toyota 1600. Are you seeing a pattern?

300 hp is where an M90 starts to flatline on a 200 or 250, even with a really good intercooler (aftercooler in proper US speak).

The loads its under are described by Broncitis http://s717.photobucket.com/user/bronci ... t=3&page=1
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=52505


and Balldrick.
See it here viewtopic.php?f=22&t=56560&p=482065#p482065

They are the best people to read up on. Broncitis is the M90 Bronco with Classic Inlines head, and Balldrick runs a 250, Classic Inlines headed M90 Supercharged Falcon. Each are wounderfull development guys, who have shown a huge amount of initiative.

But the M90 was at its limit on a 205 or 225 hp 3.8, and any 4.6 or 5.4 runs at least an M112, and even later screw blowers are even bigger to reduce heat build-up in 5.0 and 5.4 or 5.8 applications. There is a reason for 134 cubic inch blowers being the minimum for a 5 liter engine...heat soak, even with an aftercooler.


viewtopic.php?f=22&t=68366&p=524365#p524365
Broncitis":1m7b7l4u said:
Balldrick has put together the best m90 set up hands down period, this guys ride is as bad as it gets.
Click to expand...

See it here viewtopic.php?f=22&t=56560&p=482065#p482065
 
xctasy":tunxs6lw said:
Use an F150 full serpentine drive, and make a reverse pump idler gear. 3G alternator bottom right, Mitsubishi Starion/ Triton/L200/ 2.6 Astron ii Power steering pump top left, blower bottom left, everything else stock F150.
Click to expand...

Just for clarification, Are you saying that the 300 six Crank pulley / Balancer fits on the 200 ? I was thinking that the crank snout of the 200 was slightly smaller than the 300. If the 300/ 4.9l crank pulley does not fit then what serpentine crank pulley does work with the F150 Serpentine? The inline Six F150's are pretty common in the junkyards near me so it would be nice if that can be made to work. Also, can you point me to any photos of the F150 serpentine installed on a 200?
 
No pictures. I have 100 pages of my projects, and with a few exceptions I don't show my works in progress until after I've nutted them out. The F150 set up is a work in progress.

The US F150 300/4.9 system is best because the Aussie serpentine systems are designed for a Nissan style L28 side outlet water neck, which screws everything up for our US 200's. I hate everything about the Aussie set up because its not like the F150 trucks.

Yes, the 4.9/300 balancer is bigger but there is a common replacement pulley, and that's the 1994 EF Falcon item we use here. I think the US 250 is the same snout as the US 300, but all Aussie 250's are the same as the US 200's, and that's what we use.

The pulley I use is a custom modified item, but the six grove 1994-1997 EF Falcon pulley fits, that's what Balldrick used, and its common enough.And works with the F150 parts. The water pump to crank spacing, the perriferal ancillary spaceings can be adjusted, and a shorter belt used, but the F150 hardware is what you need.
 
Ok, I figured there would be more to it than a simple bolt up conversion. I'll have to see if I can find a source for the falcon balancer over here. I was looking at it this evening and i believe that the simplest solution would be to make a bolt on serpentine pulley for the crank similar to the bolt on V belt pulleys. I would prefer a single belt serpentine but a bolt on setup allows me to pick the pulley size and that gives me more control over how fast I spin the supercharger.
 
Johnsondawg":3kuea8oi said:
Is this the crank pulley that works on the 200?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-FALCON- ... a9f&_uhb=1
Click to expand...

Yep :beer: :LOL: (y) :cool:

You saw Balldricks post, good work!

Its a good part and cheap.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=56560&p=482065#p482065

balldrick":3kuea8oi said:
WDoug72":3kuea8oi said:
Balldrick do you happen to have a part number for that balancer? If i can find one and the price is right, it may be worthwhile to ship to the states.
Click to expand...
Gday mate, Try these http://rossperformanceparts.com/heavy_duty_harmonic_balancers.html# Its the one for EL falcon 4.0l. part.no-RB296HD. Also http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-FAL...=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ee3b1ba9fandhttp://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Harmonic...=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19c87a2980 also someone in the Aussie 250 forum might be able to tell you if the latter model balancers will fit.As Ross make some good ones for performance and raceing.EF-EL balancer http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x180 ... mpaner.jpg
Click to expand...

For a one wire 3G alternator, use a Taurus unit, and it has a six grove pulley already. Stock Fox or Maverick/monarch/Granada 3.3 monts dude. Then its just the M90, power steering, Davis Craig water pump and contoller and copying Broncitus set-up. The set-up is fun!

http://www.fordsix.com/forum/posting.ph ... 7&p=537724

JackFish":3kuea8oi said:
I did the 3G swap. I posted here so there is a thread with info.
g3alt06.jpg

Got most of my info from the four-eyed pride forum but there are a few sites out there with the info.
There are two sizes, and I found that if you have AC (I have a fox-body) you have to use the smaller 3g, and if not the larger one fits better.
Click to expand...
 
i just asked for shipping quote from one of the ebay guys selling them and got told $80 aus (72.22 us) shipping im seeing if that just for one or if he could send more might see if he is interested in a group buy.
 
If we can get a few people interested, shipping costs should get better. One thing to consider is Customs fees, they can be significant and sellers don't always include the fees when they quote a shipping rate. If they don't, international shipments can show up with unexpected duty / brokerage fees that are charged by the shipping carrier. We just need to be sure we know what we are actually paying before we commit. If we can make it work for a reasonable cost I'm in for sure.
 
xctasy":14dvb9rb said:
Johnsondawg":14dvb9rb said:
Is this the crank pulley that works on the 200?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-FALCON- ... a9f&_uhb=1
Click to expand...

Yep :beer: :LOL: (y) :cool:

You saw Balldricks post, good work!

Its a good part and cheap.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=56560&p=482065#p482065

balldrick":14dvb9rb said:
WDoug72":14dvb9rb said:
Balldrick do you happen to have a part number for that balancer? If i can find one and the price is right, it may be worthwhile to ship to the states.
Click to expand...
Gday mate, Try these http://rossperformanceparts.com/heavy_duty_harmonic_balancers.html# Its the one for EL falcon 4.0l. part.no-RB296HD. Also http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-FAL...=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ee3b1ba9fandhttp://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Harmonic...=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19c87a2980 also someone in the Aussie 250 forum might be able to tell you if the latter model balancers will fit.As Ross make some good ones for performance and raceing.EF-EL balancer http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x180 ... mpaner.jpg
Click to expand...

For a one wire 3G alternator, use a Taurus unit, and it has a six grove pulley already. Stock Fox or Maverick/monarch/Granada 3.3 monts dude. Then its just the M90, power steering, Davis Craig water pump and contoller and copying Broncitus set-up. The set-up is fun!

http://www.fordsix.com/forum/posting.ph ... 7&p=537724

JackFish":14dvb9rb said:
I did the 3G swap. I posted here so there is a thread with info.
g3alt06.jpg

Got most of my info from the four-eyed pride forum but there are a few sites out there with the info.
There are two sizes, and I found that if you have AC (I have a fox-body) you have to use the smaller 3g, and if not the larger one fits better.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It would appear that I'm not the only one interested in a serpentine for the 200. Hopefully, we can get a "Mass Buy" of sorts together. Do you happen to know what the Diameter of the Falcon balancer is? If there is enough clearance between pulleys, it may be possible to keep the stock water pump by adding another idler pulley to the serpentine. I appreciate the lead on the balancer.

As for the 3G alternator, I have been running the Taurus 3G for about 4 years on my 200 and much longer on my other Bronco (5.8L,351w). Its a great upgrade!
 
xctasy":wpuxm3hx said:
Johnsondawg":wpuxm3hx said:
Is this the crank pulley that works on the 200?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-FALCON- ... a9f&_uhb=1
Click to expand...

Yep :beer: :LOL: (y) :cool:

You saw Balldricks post, good work!

Its a good part and cheap.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=56560&p=482065#p482065

balldrick":wpuxm3hx said:
WDoug72":wpuxm3hx said:
Balldrick do you happen to have a part number for that balancer? If i can find one and the price is right, it may be worthwhile to ship to the states.
Click to expand...
Gday mate, Try these http://rossperformanceparts.com/heavy_duty_harmonic_balancers.html# Its the one for EL falcon 4.0l. part.no-RB296HD. Also http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-FAL...=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ee3b1ba9fandhttp://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Harmonic...=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19c87a2980 also someone in the Aussie 250 forum might be able to tell you if the latter model balancers will fit.As Ross make some good ones for performance and raceing.EF-EL balancer http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x180 ... mpaner.jpg
Click to expand...

For a one wire 3G alternator, use a Taurus unit, and it has a six grove pulley already. Stock Fox or Maverick/monarch/Granada 3.3 monts dude. Then its just the M90, power steering, Davis Craig water pump and contoller and copying Broncitus set-up. The set-up is fun!

http://www.fordsix.com/forum/posting.ph ... 7&p=537724

JackFish":wpuxm3hx said:
I did the 3G swap. I posted here so there is a thread with info.
g3alt06.jpg

Got most of my info from the four-eyed pride forum but there are a few sites out there with the info.
There are two sizes, and I found that if you have AC (I have a fox-body) you have to use the smaller 3g, and if not the larger one fits better.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It would appear that I'm not the only one interested in a serpentine for the 200. Hopefully, we can get a "Mass Buy" of sorts together. Do you happen to know what the Diameter of the Falcon balancer is? If there is enough clearance between pulleys, it may be possible to keep the stock water pump by adding another idler pulley to the serpentine. I appreciate the lead on the balancer.

As for the 3G alternator, I have been running the Taurus 3G for about 4 years on my 200 and much longer on my other Bronco (5.8L,351w). Its a great upgrade!
 
ok he got back with me about shipping 140 Aus for 2 he can send up to 4 in one package. maybe one of our aus friends could do a cheaper deal?
 
Xargon321":v6qu1hsr said:
ok he got back with me about shipping 140 Aus for 2 he can send up to 4 in one package. maybe one of our aus friends could do a cheaper deal?
Click to expand...

I did some searching and found that the OEM part number for the balancer is EHC6316A the part number listed on Ebay for Power Bond Harmonic Balancers is HB1432-N. Hopefully, we can get a few more people interested to get the costs down a bit more. I'll try to do some more searching after work tomorrow.
 
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